We Are A Black Belt School

[lklawson]

Just exactly what does that mean? Just how were martial arts schools run in the good ole days? If you think it was just show up whenever you wanted and didn’t have to pay a lot of money for training and the instructor was there for you, you better think again. I have three different Master instructors one from Hong Kong one from the Philippines one from Thailand

In Hong Kong once being accepted as a student his father paid in advance for a year. To be accepted as a student he had to be recommended by another student and he had to apply. After going through a 3 month waiting period he was finally accepted. If student’s payments were not on time they were not allowed to enter the front door much less allowed to train. He didn’t see any training with the head instructor until he have been training there for almost 2 years and it was for a few seconds at a time to be corrected for something. There was no specific training times you just showed up and trained with who was there, many times he was the only one there other than a senior member there to help out. After the first year of training he had to re-apply and be accepted again and had to commit to 3 years of training. Today he travels the U.S. and Europe instructing Wing Chun as well as has his own school.

The one from the Philippines started at the age of 6 under his grandfather and had no choice if he wanted to train or not. Up at 5 or 5:30 and trained for an hour, then school and training again in the afternoon. When he was 12 he was sent to another instructor for a year who forced him to work and fight for food. If he didn’t fight or when he did fight if he lost he went hungry. Now that is a great martial arts life isn’t it?

My Muay Thai Ajarn started at the age of 7 and started each day with a 3 mile run. Eat, clean up the training area train for an 1 ½ eat, rest and work in the camp until 4 then training started train for 1-2 hours then run. Eat sleep and start all over again in the morning. Most all the money he earned went to the camp and some went to his family. As a teenager the camp started doing some education training and by the time he was 17 he had saved enough money to buy a plane ticket and came to America getting away from the camp.

Yea, let’s train like the good ole days.

Excellent point! In the "good ol' days" in Europe, in order to get a martial arts education you had to typically be an Aristrocrat. Those were the only ones that had enough money to afford it. Eventually the Renaissance came along and there were non-Aristocrat rich who could afford martial arts training. Even in England, which was actually very "progressive" about allowing non-Aristrocrats (aka "Peasants") certain forms of martial training, you had to join the equivalent of a Guild and pay or "work it off" and you'd have to earn your promotions by fighting anyone and every one who cared to step up (and you had to advertise it with handbills you bought and posted all over town and nearby towns). Even when the Industrial Revolution started making the middle class rich enough to pay, they still had to pay "Professors" of whatever "science" they were wanting to study, join a club, or what have you. It was extremely rare for instructors to teach for free. They had this funny idea about wanting to eat almost every day and not freeze to death of exposure in the winters. The best (or at least most famous) actively lobbied high ranking Nobels (Dukes, &tc.) for the privilege of teaching their children, because being a Master of Arms on retainer with a Count or whatever is a pretty cushy job compared to being a professional stand in for duels.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Wow.....a lot of anger in you, once again, Danny T. I do not believe this is the first time you went off on a rant on me like that. When I referred to the good ole days, I was referring to how difficult it was to attain a blackbelt and how dedicated you had to be in order to even keep up with the studies.

You need to calm down a little bit.

I have an honest question. How do you know how difficult it was or was not to attain a black belt?

There are a lot of myths about what a black belt is and what it takes to achieve one.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[pgsmith]

In all of this, the OP has never specified what sort of martial art he is looking for. The term "Martial Arts" covers an incredibly large and diverse amount of space. It is virtually impossible to answer any questions unless things get much more specific. For instance, I've seen several variations of "martial arts instructors have to be businessmen" in this thread. While that is true for some martial arts, it is not true for others. Some, such as Japanese koryu, preclude that completely as it is impossible to do them for a living. Some can be done for very little money, some cost a lot more depending upon the situation. It varies a great deal depending upon the art, the region, and what is desired from the art.

I just hate it when people take something large and colorful like the martial arts community, and try to force it into their own black and white definitions.

 

[lklawson]

1. Aren't contracts dangerous? While I see the need for them from the school's side (it's a guarantee that they will get paid for "X" amount of time) what if something happens like you lose your job or if you get divorced and cannot afford to go to the school anymore?

No, not necessarily so. As I specifically write in the rec.martial-arts Newbie's Guide, many contracts have a "lost job" or "moving" get out of jail free card.

2. I have been pretty good at getting this out of the instructor's who's classes I watch. Most of them do not offer the information "up front" or "voluntarily", but they will answer if you ask them.

They usually don't bother because most newbies don't know enough about lineage to know if the instructor is making it up. If the student asks, sure, whatever. No reason not to tell, but most newbies basically only recognize the really famous practitioners. This usually goes even for experienced practitioners of other martial arts.

3. Multi-Tier Pricing, to me, is ridiculous and scary! Let me give you just an example of one of the schools that I went to last week:
You pay $110 a month, you get to attend two classes per week, but cannot test for your black belt- 24 month contract
You pay $120 a month, you get to attend three classes per week and can test for your black belt- 36 month contract
You pay $150 a month, you get to attend unlimited classes per week and can attend the "special" all-inclusive black belt class that is held on Saturday mornings. YAY! (insert dramatic music). -36 month contract
-Now, if I am wrong, and this is normal and what I should be expecting everywhere I go, because I am seeing it nearly everywhere I go, then please tell me so I know that it's just ME that is being dis-trusting.

It is nothing to be scared of and is dead common across almost every business in the Western World. Longer contracts mean longer guaranteed income which is, in a cost-profit balance, is worth sacrificing some slight profit margin for the ability to project revenue into the future and avoid marketing costs incurred by finding a student to fill that slot. It's the same reason Cell Phone plans give you a break if you re-up for a 2 year contract.

4. Testing fees seem to always be in the $40-$50 range per test. So it is always expected when I go to a school and ask and I have never been surpised by the instrcutor's answer. Oh, except a few days ago when I attended a Kenpo school and the instructor said he doesn't charge for "stripe tests" and only charges $15 for belt tests. I have never seen them that cheap before. But his monthly fees were pretty expensive, so that is where it probably adds up to in the end.

Testing fees are dirt common and frequently the parent organization requires a fee to register the rank, which allows the student some portability and ability to pick up and train at an affiliated school elsewhere and still have his rank recognized. There are, often yearly membership fees for parent orgs too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Kaygee]

I have an honest question. How do you know how difficult it was or was not to attain a black belt?

There are a lot of myths about what a black belt is and what it takes to achieve one.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I know it was difficult by gauging it on the fact that I did not have the patience to wait to be tested for it.

 

[Kaygee]

In all of this, the OP has never specified what sort of martial art he is looking for. The term "Martial Arts" covers an incredibly large and diverse amount of space. It is virtually impossible to answer any questions unless things get much more specific. For instance, I've seen several variations of "martial arts instructors have to be businessmen" in this thread. While that is true for some martial arts, it is not true for others. Some, such as Japanese koryu, preclude that completely as it is impossible to do them for a living. Some can be done for very little money, some cost a lot more depending upon the situation. It varies a great deal depending upon the art, the region, and what is desired from the art.

I just hate it when people take something large and colorful like the martial arts community, and try to force it into their own black and white definitions.

If had the choice from any in the world, the martial art that I would want to train in the most would be Hapkido, with Kung Fu coming in at a close second. Unfortunately, there aren't any of those types of schools within a 25-30 mile radius around me.

 

[lklawson]

I know it was difficult by gauging it on the fact that I did not have the patience to wait to be tested for it.

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but that is a really awful way to measure the worth.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Kaygee]

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but that is a really awful way to measure the worth.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I have a really awful way of measuring or doing anything martial arts-wise.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I have a really awful way of measuring or doing anything martial arts-wise.

Then you might want to reevaluate how you measure and do things.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kaygee]

Then you might want to reevaluate how you measure and do things.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Trying....

 

[rframe]

I know it was difficult by gauging it on the fact that I did not have the patience to wait to be tested for it.

Huh? I'm totally confused now..

From what I've gathered from your other posts is you are supposedly frustrated, looking for a traditional dojo where quality is more important than anything else, and you dont like seeing things watered down for the masses. You decry schools that market themselves and seek profitability.

Yet now you reveal that you think the definition of "hard" (in terms of getting a BB) is having to spend some time in rank before getting promoted?

You make no sense?

Quick honest question, do you think you are a superior martial artists and that your previous instructors just dont "get you" or are "holding you back"? Is that what is causing your anger toward other schools that you think give out black belts rapidly, is because you really wish that you had a quick path to black belt and are effectively jealous of people who got a BB from a McDojo after two years? Is it because you think you deserve to be promoted early but most other people really dont?

That sort of attitude is the only way I can make sense of your posts so far, I'm not saying that's you... but is it?

If so, just go join a McDojo and get yourself a meaningless black belt... it'll make you feel better.

 

[Kaygee]

You got me all wrong. Sorry, don't feel like explaining it again either.

 

[pgsmith]

Unfortunately, there aren't any of those types of schools within a 25-30 mile radius around me.

And you know this from dojo locator dot com? Just out of curiosity, I looked at the dojo that were listed in my area on that site. Not a single one that I would have recommended was listed.

 

[Guy Preston]

If had the choice from any in the world, the martial art that I would want to train in the most would be Hapkido, with Kung Fu coming in at a close second. Unfortunately, there aren't any of those types of schools within a 25-30 mile radius around me.

Kaygee,

You've lost me a bit here...

In your thread 'How far is too far' you started by saying you have a Tang Soo Do class about 25 minutes from you, if you don't have Hapkido this is a pretty good alternative - but you've said here there are no schools within a 25 mile radius.

If 25 mins is too far for you, that is probably half of your problem with not finding a class you like... Shoot, I drive around 25 minutes to the class I teach every lesson because the facility was better than closer ones... And that's only going into the next town to me. Most people who've done some serious training will have travelled for it at some point.

 

[Carol]

Kaygee,

You've lost me a bit here...

In your thread 'How far is too far' you started by saying you have a Tang Soo Do class about 25 minutes from you, if you don't have Hapkido this is a pretty good alternative - but you've said here there are no schools within a 25 mile radius.

If 25 mins is too far for you, that is probably half of your problem with not finding a class you like... Shoot, I drive around 25 minutes to the class I teach every lesson because the facility was better than closer ones... Most people who've done some serious training will have travelled for it at some point.

I looked at Dojo locator and did not see anything to support the conclusion that a 25 mile distance categorically equates to a 25 minute trip. I did a quick search in my area and a school that was described as "13.5 miles" from my home. There is no way I could make that drive in anywhere close to 13.5 minutes. Perhaps it is that distance as the proverbial crow flies, but the rest of us have to rely on an automobile A quick google map of directions to the destination says the routes were 21 to 38 miles in length (depending on if you preferred highway or back roads), with all choices reporting a drive time of approx 45 minutes "in current traffic". Given its 8:15 PM here now and traffic snarls are minimal at this hour, I don't think it unreasonable to posit that such a drive could easily equate to more than one hour in the traffic associated with the evening rush.

 

[Guy Preston]

I looked at Dojo locator and did not see anything to support the conclusion that a 25 mile distance categorically equates to a 25 minute trip. I did a quick search in my area and a school that was described as "13.5 miles" from my home. Perhaps it is that distance as the proverbial crow flies, but the rest of us have to rely on an automobile A quick google map of directions to the destination says the routes were 21 to 38 miles, all choices equated to approx 45 minutes "in current traffic". Given its 8:15 PM here now and traffic snarls are minimal at this hour, I don't think it unreasonable to posit that such a drive could easily equate more than one hour in the traffic associated with the evening rush.

Sorry Carol, the post I'm referring too actially says the school is 25 minutes from him, if as you've said above a school showing as 13.5 miles away could take 45 mins to reach, that would suggest that if he could reach this school in 25 mins it is potentially much closer - hence the lack of clarity around saying that there are no schools within a 25 mile radius...

Kaygee, have found the following in Philly searching against North East, any of these any good to you?

Have also spotted lots of Aikido classes in different locations if you fancy trying Japanese MA?


Golden Breath American Tai Chi
More Info
1928 Cottman Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19111
8.3 mi
(215) 745-4047 Directions


Rocco Mixed Martial Arts
More Info
1810 Grant Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19115
12
11.1 mi
(215) 778-2517 Directions

Warrior Boxing Gym
More Info
1209 Mifflin St
Philadelphia, PA 19148
1.8 mi
(267) 348-7465 Directions


Urban Defense Center
More Info
725 N 6th St
Philadelphia, PA 19123
9
1.2 mi
(267) 259-3936 Directions


Oon Karate
More Info
7048 Torresdale Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19135
3
8.7 mi
(215) 543-3818 Directions


Hikari
More Info
1040 N American St
Philadelphia, PA 19123
2
1.6 mi
(215) 923-2654 Directions


The Lions Den Martial Arts and Fitness Center
More Info
7260 Frankford Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19135
8
9.0 mi
(215) 332-5466 Directions


Shin Karate
More Info
709 W Oregon Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19148
1
2.6 mi
(215) 468-1111 Directions


Martial Posture Martial Arts Center
More Info
2100 Chestnut St 2nd Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19103
10
0.7 mi
(888) 671-5672 Directions


Amerikick Karate
More Info
1617 Snyder Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19145
3
2.0 mi
(215) 462-2467 Directions


Tang Soo Do Karate Academy
More Info
7516 Haverford Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19151
7
6.0 mi
(215) 473-7900 Directions


Red Tiger Taekwon-Do
More Info
7530 Frankford Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19136
2
9.4 mi
(215) 332-1003 Directions


Philadelphia Uechi Ryu Karate
More Info
7147 Germantown Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19119
2
7.5 mi
(215) 248-4855 Directions


Amerikick Karate Studios
More Info
8025 Roosevelt Blvd Second Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19152
3
9.2 mi
(215) 708-2467 Directions


Moo Duk Kwan Karate School
More Info
3003 Byberry Rd
Philadelphia, PA 19154
13.6 mi
(215) 637-3132 Directions


International Military
More Info
13451 Damar Dr
Philadelphia, PA 19116
1
14.1 mi
(215) 856-3008 Directions


Osagame Martial Arts Fitness
More Info
1168 S Broad St
Philadelphia, PA 19148
1
1.1 mi
(267) 357-1262 Directions


Red Tiger TKD
More Info
1912 Welsh Rd
Philadelphia, PA 19115
1
10.8 mi
(215) 969-9962 Directions

Cheung's Hung Gar Kung Fu Acad
More Info
1012 Cherry St # 4
Philadelphia, PA 19107
0.4 mi
(215) 629-1654 Directions

Philadelphia Wing Chun Kung Fu
More Info
117 N 10th St
Philadelphia, PA 19107
0.5 mi
(215) 351-6227 Directions

 

[Carol]

Sorry Carol, the post I'm referring too actially says the school is 25 minutes from him, if as you've said above a school showing as 13.5 miles away could take 45 mins to reach, that would suggest that if he could reach this school in 25 mins it is potentially much closer - hence the lack of clarity around saying that there are no schools within a 25 mile radius...

Apologies, I misunderstood :asian:

 

[Kaygee]

Sorry Carol, the post I'm referring too actially says the school is 25 minutes from him, if as you've said above a school showing as 13.5 miles away could take 45 mins to reach, that would suggest that if he could reach this school in 25 mins it is potentially much closer - hence the lack of clarity around saying that there are no schools within a 25 mile radius...

Kaygee, have found the following in Philly searching against North East, any of these any good to you?

Have also spotted lots of Aikido classes in different locations if you fancy trying Japanese MA?


Golden Breath American Tai Chi
More Info
1928 Cottman Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19111
8.3 mi
(215) 745-4047 Directions

I never heard of this school, but will check it out.


Rocco Mixed Martial Arts
More Info
1810 Grant Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19115
12
11.1 mi
(215) 778-2517 Directions

Been here: Filled with "meat-heads". Not interested in MMA.

Warrior Boxing Gym
More Info
1209 Mifflin St
Philadelphia, PA 19148
1.8 mi
(267) 348-7465 Directions

Far away and down town. There is no parking in down town Philly. Not interested in MMA.

Urban Defense Center
More Info
725 N 6th St
Philadelphia, PA 19123
9
1.2 mi
(267) 259-3936 Directions

Far away and down town. There is no parking in down town Philly. This is also a very bad neighborhood. I wouldn't even be allowed out of my car.

Oon Karate
More Info
7048 Torresdale Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19135
3
8.7 mi
(215) 543-3818 Directions

Closed!

Hikari
More Info
1040 N American St
Philadelphia, PA 19123
2
1.6 mi
(215) 923-2654 Directions

Far away and down town. There is no parking in down town Philly. This is also a very bad neighborhood. I wouldn't even be allowed out of my car.

The Lions Den Martial Arts and Fitness Center
More Info
7260 Frankford Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19135
8
9.0 mi
(215) 332-5466 Directions

Closed!

Shin Karate
More Info
709 W Oregon Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19148
1
2.6 mi
(215) 468-1111 Directions

Far away and down town. There is no parking in down town Philly.

Martial Posture Martial Arts Center
More Info
2100 Chestnut St 2nd Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19103
10
0.7 mi
(888) 671-5672 Directions

Far away and down town. There is no parking in down town Philly.

Amerikick Karate
More Info
1617 Snyder Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19145
3
2.0 mi
(215) 462-2467 Directions

Far away and down town. There is no parking in down town Philly.

Tang Soo Do Karate Academy
More Info
7516 Haverford Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19151
7
6.0 mi
(215) 473-7900 Directions

Very far from me.

Red Tiger Taekwon-Do
More Info
7530 Frankford Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19136
2
9.4 mi
(215) 332-1003 Directions

I've seen the students that Red-Tiger Schools produce. Blah!


Philadelphia Uechi Ryu Karate
More Info
7147 Germantown Ave
Philadelphia, PA 19119
2
7.5 mi
(215) 248-4855 Directions


Far away and down town. There is no parking in down town Philly. This is also a very bad neighborhood. I wouldn't even be allowed out of my car.

Amerikick Karate Studios
More Info
8025 Roosevelt Blvd Second Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19152
3
9.2 mi
(215) 708-2467 Directions

There is a Kenpo Karate class full of kids and an MMA gym. I am not interested in MMA.

Moo Duk Kwan Karate School
More Info
3003 Byberry Rd
Philadelphia, PA 19154
13.6 mi
(215) 637-3132 Directions

I just attended a class here an hour ago and loved it!

International Military
More Info
13451 Damar Dr
Philadelphia, PA 19116
1
14.1 mi
(215) 856-3008 Directions

Been here: Way too expensive!

Osagame Martial Arts Fitness
More Info
1168 S Broad St
Philadelphia, PA 19148
1
1.1 mi
(267) 357-1262 Directions

Way too far and down-town.

Red Tiger TKD
More Info
1912 Welsh Rd
Philadelphia, PA 19115
1
10.8 mi
(215) 969-9962 Directions

I went and watched a class at this school and it was very, very sad!

Cheung's Hung Gar Kung Fu Acad
More Info
1012 Cherry St # 4
Philadelphia, PA 19107
0.4 mi
(215) 629-1654 Directions

Far!

Philadelphia Wing Chun Kung Fu
More Info
117 N 10th St
Philadelphia, PA 19107
0.5 mi
(215) 351-6227 Directions

FAR!

I do appreciate you taking the time to look for me. But I have either been to these schools above, or they are down town. (I out comments in red text) Down town Philly sucks! Have you ever watched Parking Wars? If not, watch an episode or two.

 

[arnisador]

What does Philadelphia have to do with "We Are a Black Belt School?"

 

[Kaygee]

What does Philadelphia have to do with "We Are a Black Belt School?"

Nothing......