WC hook

[Eru Ilúvatar]

This guy does an application of the hook I like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQuut2eBXlI&feature=related. Mook, was this what you ment?

Well there is the obvious one where you seize their arm and pivot , dragging them into the hook punch

I like how this guy appys the art very much. This is his only video I can find unfortunately. Geezer, you being very WT experienced, can you tell me anything about this guy maybe?

Could you give me some examples? An application or two would be great!

I meant applications for the hook motion used for other things than a punch. I would also be grateful for any other WC hook applications.

 

[geezer]

This guy does an application of the hook I like...

I like how this guy appys the art very much. This is his only video I can find unfortunately. Geezer, you being very WT experienced, can you tell me anything about this guy maybe?

I like the way he applies the art too. I did a bit of checking. I think that's Sifu Kaspar Lund Nielsen, 5th Practioner Grade, EWTO. In physical build and technique execution, he resembles my Si-dai (and instructor) Master Jeff Webb, also 5th Practitioner Grade in WT (NWTO). The video appears to have been shot at Master Keith Kernspecht's EWTO headquarters at Kastle Langenzell (sp?) in Germany.

Another thing. If you watch, he uses the same kind of rotational force (seen in the hook) in many of the other techniques, including elbows and throws. When you look at the way he moves, you can see that the hook is in no way out of context. It fits in quite naturally. Now if if I could just convince that guy to take a vacation out here in Arizona, and maybe show us a few things...

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Thanks a lot! I agree about the hook. I would love to train with the guy to

 

[Si-Je]

Well, I don't have alot of training on the WC hook punch. But, I've seen Sifu Guiterrez use what I call a "dai punch". It looks like he's using Dai Sau off the attackers hook punch and then pivoting from a dai sau or bong sau position to hook punch. Neato stuff.

I didn't know there was a hook punch in WC/WT until I started watching his videos.

It kinda looks like his fist is "upsidedown" when he hook punches too. With the thumb pointing down and the knuckles still straight up and down.

Is this how you do WC hook punch? Like an inverted straight punch? Or am I just trippin'? lol!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Si-Je check out the video. At the end before the double leg grab you see a grab pull the arm an hook punch.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

I think I finaly get what you mean by Dai sao. I think I have it in Chum Kiu. Is it the technique where you have your elbows pointed out and fingers pointed in and postioned at eye level and the hand is extended at aproximetly 135 degrees?

The hook I was shown in WC is sopposed to be done so the fist is horizontal when striking the face. The fist is sopposed to be lined up with the forarm; so if you strike the plexus are for example the fist would be at about 45 degrees.

 

[Si-Je]

That sounds like Dai Sau.
The elbow is what actually deflects the punch, fingers to the eyes flows nicely to a bui gee finger thrust, or chop to the neck, or head throw.

Check out this lady's WC ya'll. She does alot of hook punching in this video too. Where do I sign up?! lol!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Did you see the Bil Gee video yet...thats the actual WC hook. Now the lady in your video is actually doing WC and one of Shaolin Animals. I can not really tell. which one yet. I thought she was doing Bagua at first but later on she looked like a dragon fighter. But the hooks she is doing is not WC but other Gung Fu style.

That sounds like Dai Sau.
The elbow is what actually deflects the punch, fingers to the eyes flows nicely to a bui gee finger thrust, or chop to the neck, or head throw.

Check out this lady's WC ya'll. She does alot of hook punching in this video too. Where do I sign up?! lol!

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Did you see the Bil Gee video yet...thats the actual WC hook. Now the lady in your video is actually doing WC and one of Shaolin Animals. I can not really tell. which one yet. I thought she was doing Bagua at first but later on she looked like a dragon fighter. But the hooks she is doing is not WC but other Gung Fu style.

Acctualy she is Weng Chun. Weng Chun, from what I've seen of it, basicly looks like that. They say this is he original version from which all other WC came of. Check out this for more info:

http://www.weng-chun.com/index_d.htm

Also notice in the galery area that the GM of their lineage was uncle and friend to GM Ip Man :O They also have a very interesting article under the history area about the origin of WC. I recomend reading it to all Chunners!

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Mook, I have another question about the hook for you. I hope you'll see this I noticed that when Chu Shong Tin does the hook in the Biu Tze he has his elbow in and his fist bent inwards. Wong Shun Leung does pretty much the same thing. I was shown similarly but I started doing it with the back of the fist lined up with the forarm and elbow a bit more out instead. It just feels stronger/more natural to me. I was wondering; is there any special reason one would do it with a fist/wrist bent? Do you apply it with the bent or straight wrist?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Acctualy this question is for everybody that does the hook in a above mentioned was, thanks!

 

[Si-Je]

That Weng Chun style is my new fascination! I always wondered what the shaolin style of WC would look like. This seems like it would be what it might be.
I really like the way she uses her whole body when she does wrist rolls, and re-direction.

I've seen the hook in some versions of Bui Gee, but haven't learned the hook punch yet.

Gonna start a new thread on Weng Chun's chi sau. hehehe

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Yip man lineages say the Wing Chun is Northern Shaolin is different but not really the original. Its basically northern shaolin. Its known as Orthodox Shaolin or Shaolin Wing Chun.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Mook, I have another question about the hook for you. I hope you'll see this I noticed that when Chu Shong Tin does the hook in the Biu Tze he has his elbow in and his fist bent inwards. Wong Shun Leung does pretty much the same thing. I was shown similarly but I started doing it with the back of the fist lined up with the forarm and elbow a bit more out instead. It just feels stronger/more natural to me. I was wondering; is there any special reason one would do it with a fist/wrist bent? Do you apply it with the bent or straight wrist?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Acctualy this question is for everybody that does the hook in a above mentioned was, thanks!

Bump

 

[mook jong man]

Bump

Sorry man I can't answer that for you , I have noticed that as well .
Even my own Sifu who trained under Sigung Tsui , for 40 years did some things in the forms slightly different than Sigung . I never worried about it too much they were very slight but noticeable differences .

I later found out that over the course of the years Sigung's forms went through very slight evolutions . I also understand that Sigung was instrumental in having the height of the Tan Sau changed to the way we do it today , apparently in Yip Man's school they used to do the Tan Sau a lot lower in the SLT form .

But one day Sigung got struck in the chest by a mantis practitioner so he asked Yip Man if they could change the height of the Tan Sau to a more practical solar plexus height. But I digress , back to your original question , It could be the way its done in the form is not exactly like the application , I have noticed this in some things before .

My master did it the way you do it , I take the middle road and compromise halfway between your method and Sigungs method . I think that the angle of the arms will depend on the distance to the target in reality , but still we are only thinking of striking and forgetting that we could also use the forearm to surround the neck as we do a leg sweep .

If you are worried about hurting your wrist when you strike something , practice standing side on to a wall bag and hit it hard and see what is the best wrist and elbow position for you , also practice on a heavy bag from varying distances and experiment with how you have to change the position of your elbow and wrist to have the most solid structure .

This is what I do and have found that after a while you will automatically make micro adjustments depending on the range to get the best tranference of power through your arm and into the target.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Thanks for the reply! Great post. And yes, one of the main problems that bothers me with my instructors method is that I feel I could injure my wrist easily. Especialy if the guy is turning/pivoting when I strike. That could snap the wrist quickly. Systema for example practices a similar method to break an opponents wrist even on a straight punch.

And I didn't think of the hook as a choker before Indeed the hook would fit in great as a choker. We did something similar for takedowns just that we looked at it as a faak to lan motion but it's basicly the same thing.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

What do you mean by choker???

Thanks for the reply! Great post. And yes, one of the main problems that bothers me with my instructors method is that I feel I could injure my wrist easily. Especialy if the guy is turning/pivoting when I strike. That could snap the wrist quickly. Systema for example practices a similar method to break an opponents wrist even on a straight punch.

And I didn't think of the hook as a choker before Indeed the hook would fit in great as a choker. We did something similar for takedowns just that we looked at it as a faak to lan motion but it's basicly the same thing.

 

[mook jong man]

What do you mean by choker???

I'm sorry I should have been a bit clearer , the arm is not choking the neck , although I suppose you could use it for that if you wanted to . I mean to say in a streetfight your not going to have judges there holding up score cards saying I'm sorry what he did there was not proper Wing Chun I give him 5 out of 10 .

The arm is actually thrown into the throat in a ballistic fashion , so that it balances the force on the bottom of his body where you are also smashing the lower half of his calf muscle again in a ballistic fashion with the back of your heel using the sweep motion from Bil Gee .

We used to also do the same thing with an elbow strike instead of the hook , the principal is the same . One force acting on the top of the body and another one on the bottom of the body in unison at high speed will usually result in the attacker being thrown back onto their head with a great deal of force .

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Oh. Than thats exactly what we did. We just looked at it as a SLT motion. Great for takedowns!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay we have similiar techinque usually the palm was to center of chest below the collar bone and above the sternum white the foot c-step to kick the foundation out from under the opponent.

I'm sorry I should have been a bit clearer , the arm is not choking the neck , although I suppose you could use it for that if you wanted to . I mean to say in a streetfight your not going to have judges there holding up score cards saying I'm sorry what he did there was not proper Wing Chun I give him 5 out of 10 .

The arm is actually thrown into the throat in a ballistic fashion , so that it balances the force on the bottom of his body where you are also smashing the lower half of his calf muscle again in a ballistic fashion with the back of your heel using the sweep motion from Bil Gee .

We used to also do the same thing with an elbow strike instead of the hook , the principal is the same . One force acting on the top of the body and another one on the bottom of the body in unison at high speed will usually result in the attacker being thrown back onto their head with a great deal of force .

 

[zepedawingchun]

To my knowledge most WC people have a hook/hook like punch in the Biu tze form. I would like to ask those people how do they apply the hook. I would be greateful for any application descriptons/situations in Chi sao that you found it useful. Also, in your opinion, what are some situations in which the hook punch would be the most WC response to the situation?

Thanks in advance!

I think most Wing Chun family lines agree that Biu Tze (or Biu Jee) is what we call the emergency form. It covers hand positions outside the normal lines of Wing Chun thinking. An emergency form meaning when all else fails (hand positions from SNT, CK, and the jong) there's something in this form that may help you in your situation.

So if you are unable to throw straight line punches down the center or central line due to your opponent covering up or overcrowding the line, the hook (which is sort of a circular line punch) can be used to penetrate from the side.

I find it easier to sidestep and then straightline punch coming into the side of my opponent. As someone here already stated, keep it basic.

In reference to the hook punch in Biu Jee, my Sifu also teaches us to do the Phoenix Eye or Ginger Fist to the temple or ribs. I think some of the family lines do those instead of the hook, correct?