vertical outward & pushdown

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Seig

I am starting to find this thread a bit on the pendantic side. For someone who did not spend 20 years with the SGM to presume to know what the SGM was doing or thinking is a bit arrogant, but that's ok. There is nothing wqtong with being a little arrogant, it promotes self-pride. But the bottom line is this, and I don't care if the SGM or any one else, ANY BLOCK or STRIKE executed properly serves a dual purpose. Every block is a strike, every strike, a block.

Arrogant NO, wanting clarification YES. Seig, no disrespect but have you ever talked with any other Kenpo seniors other than GD? I have been told by many, that Mr. Parker left things intentionally wrong in his Infinite Insight books on purpose for the exact reason I stated in my last post. My point is this, and let me prefix this by quoting myself "Just because it is written down does not mean it is correct. " Heck if you learn the 2 man set from a qualified EPAK instructor you'll find out that the way it is shown in the Secrets of Chinese Karate book by Ed Parker , has one set of movements intentionally left incorrect for the same reason I just stated.

I would never presume to think the SGM didn't know what he was doing...that would be absurd! I am simply saying that if you follow the definition of a block and anotomical structure of the forearm you might question it too.

By the way my current instructor DID spend from 1979 to 1990 with the SGM and has written extensivley on the art of EPAK. I think he might know what he is talking about....but hey...I could be wrong.:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
LOL....... where would the Planas people be without "catagory completion"?

I dunno but I suppose that since Ed Parker Sr. ranked Huk up to 7th he must have learned something from The Old Man

As far as I remember boxing does not use the VOB per say. It uses a modified EOB to protect the head. The alignment of the body is such that if you try to use the VOB your own fist is giving you a nice hammerfist of transfered energy to yourself.

I had a scathing commentary all written out here but due to the fact that I am a kinder and more gentle Gou now, due to popular demand, I have erased it and posted this instead. But I'm just letting you know I had some mean ones primed to fire.
:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Scott Bonner stated "The attack for twirling wings isn't really using force" He is correct. The hands are "dead" meaning they are grabbing you and nothing else. The arms are "ideally" still. So if this assumption for the sake of argument is correct, then by definition, you would actually "STRIKE" the opponent's arms in the first moves of Twirling Wings, not "BLOCK" as DC states in his previous post.

Blocks- primarily defensive moves employing physical contact to check, cushion, deflect, redirect an offensive move.

It is not a parry because of the path. A sliding check is still classified as a block in this instance partially because of angle of insidence and some other things. Force or pressure is also regulated because you don't want to send the attacker into motion.

How many of you out there in Kenpo-land teach your students to STRIKE with the interior portion of their forearms? Especially to hard targets like another arm, or as the manual says "at or above your opponent's elbow".

Not me. Never have and never thought about it. Thanks for bringing that up... it does cause some pain doesn't it?



:asian:

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by kenpo3631




Arrogant NO, wanting clarification YES. Seig, no disrespect but have you ever talked with any other Kenpo seniors other than GD?

I speak with everyone I have gotten a chance to. Some I agree with, some I don't.

I have been told by many, that Mr. Parker left things intentionally wrong in his Infinite Insight books on purpose for the exact reason I stated in my last post. My point is this, and let me prefix this by quoting myself "Just because it is written down does not mean it is correct. " Heck if you learn the 2 man set from a qualified EPAK instructor you'll find out that the way it is shown in the Secrets of Chinese Karate book by Ed Parker , has one set of movements intentionally left incorrect for the same reason I just stated.

You are absolutely correct, and I did not quote the manuals.

I would never presume to think the SGM didn't know what he was doing...that would be absurd! I am simply saying that if you follow the definition of a block and anotomical structure of the forearm you might question it too.

People differ. One of the great thinks about Kenpo is that it takes all differnent body make ups into account.

By the way my current instructor DID spend from 1979 to 1990 with the SGM and has written extensivley on the art of EPAK. I think he might know what he is talking about....but hey...I could be wrong.:asian:

I meant no disrepect to any one, least of all your instructor. After reading my post myself, I see part of it did not post.

if the SGM or any one else, ANY

Should have read, if the SGM or anyone else is executing a block, then,

ANY BLOCK or STRIKE executed properly serves a dual purpose. Every block is a strike, every strike, a block.

Sorry for the confusion. I still stand by my statement that if ANY OF US did not personally spend time with the SGM, presuming to know what he was thinking ordoing is arrogant. I was not referring to our instructors, since they did.:asian:

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

LOL:rofl:

Wasting time practicing illogical moves!

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

Originally posted by Seig

I am starting to find this thread a bit on the pendantic side. For someone who did not spend 20 years with the SGM to presume to know what the SGM was doing or thinking is a bit arrogant, but that's ok. There is nothing wqtong with being a little arrogant, it promotes self-pride. But the bottom line is this, and I don't care if the SGM or any one else, ANY BLOCK or STRIKE executed properly serves a dual purpose. Every block is a strike, every strike, a block.

So what you are saying is points made by students who studied with EP for twenty years are the only ones that are valid? I guess only the seniors in the art are are allowed to use their brains. Next thing you know you are gong to say everything EP taught everyone was to only make money and it is not the real art. Only you were taught the real art and everyone else is wasting their time. OH wait someone is doing that already.:wink2:

 

[Seig]

Normally, I would not waste my time even answering you, but since you are now putting words into my posts that are not there, I am.

Originally posted by eternalwhitebelt

So what you are saying is points made by students who studied with EP for twenty years are the only ones that are valid?

No, I said nothing about any one else's point of view being valid nor invalid. I said it was arrogant to presume that anyone who was not with the man for 20 years knew what and how he was thinking. I wasn't there. Were you?

I guess only the seniors in the art are are allowed to use their brains.

EVERY ONE SHOULD Unfortunately, too many don't.

Next thing you know you are gong to say everything EP taught everyone was to only make money and it is not the real art.

If I thought that for one second, I would not be studying the art. There are too many people already spouting that kind of crap. I am sorry you have taken exception and/or offense to my post. I am starting to find your responses offensive. Go back to using your brain.

Only you were taught the real art and everyone else is wasting their time. OH wait someone is doing that already.:wink2:

Again, there is already someone, rather senior saying that, I'm not a copy cat. As a good friend of mine has told me, the problem with these boards is that it is sometimes difficult, without tone, inflection, and body language to go by, what exactly someone means. At some point I would be happy to have a personal discussion with you either via phone or face to face. Before more insults are thrown or tempers really flare, I suggest we agree that neither one of us is getting the other's full gist. There is too much discord, disharmony and misunderstanding in the Kenpo brotherhood now. Let us not continue it.
Peace and Respect
:asian:

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

The vertical outward blocks and pushdowns have many applications throughout the art, if you haven't been shown them, I would suggest looking for other instructors that really understand the dynamics of Ed Parker's vision, not just posting on the net. It's way to difficult to put all the uses on a post, but I didn't learn the push down in star block for category completion. Come to think of it, there's a hell of a lot more to star block than the basic blocks most see, and those patterns will be recognized as you advance in the art with the full curriculum.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

Why do people assume that others are lacking instruction just because they disagree with the application or definition of something? From what I have been told by Huk who IS advanced in the art, is that the problem is in the definition of terms. That has already been discussed on this thread. Huk never says that the motion of a vob is not used in the system, he just chooses to define the times we use it as something else. He says when we use it, it is generally a check. He has shown me many uses for this and a pushdown as well. Just as I have also learned many things from Tatum, and Speakman and many others in the art. I think we are really just arguing about the definition of something and not the application. Go over to kenpo net there is a thread on this as well over there, although they just seem to be insulting each other instead of discussing things. Seig I did not mean to offend you on the other hand I was offended by your comment. I think by us being involved in American Kenpo we are automatically trying to assume what EP was thinking. These discussions will never end. Just look at all the seniors and how different there take on things are. What are we to do?

 

[Rob_Broad]

I think we are starting to realize that the more we tear into eachother over the differences in each person's view fo kenpo the more we are fragmenting ourselves. It is great to see an actual debate with cited points and arguments rather than the war of insults. To everybody participating in this thread and keeping things civil, my hat is off to you. It is refreshing to see people so passionate about their art.

I think we need to accept our differences in opinion and training, it is then that we will be able to truly open up and learn from eachother.

 

[eternalwhitebelt]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad

I think we are starting to realize that the more we tear into eachother over the differences in each person's view fo kenpo the more we are fragmenting ourselves. It is great to see an actual debate with cited points and arguments rather than the war of insults. To everybody participating in this thread and keeping things civil, my hat is off to you. It is refreshing to see people so passionate about their art.

I think we need to accept our differences in opinion and training, it is then that we will be able to truly open up and learn from eachother.

:asian:

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by eternalwhitebelt

Seig I did not mean to offend you on the other hand I was offended by your comment. I think by us being involved in American Kenpo we are automatically trying to assume what EP was thinking. These discussions will never end. Just look at all the seniors and how different there take on things are. What are we to do?

I think we just did it! I meant no offense by my comment and I am sorry. Had I actually been technical in my remarks, I think this could have been avoided. We are all intelligent here, I hope some day we really do get the insights into EP's brain. As for the Seniors...well, As far as the art goes, I think they all are good examples. As leaders, some of them could use a little work. No I am NOt and will not name names

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Seig

As for the Seniors...well, As far as the art goes, I think they all are good examples. As leaders, some of them could use a little work. No I am NOt and will not name names

*sniff* *sniff* .. Hey I smell chicken. Does anybody else smell
chicken?!?!


Just kidding!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[Seig]

Do not confuse Bravery or Cowardice with Intelligence!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by eternalwhitebelt
Just look at all the seniors and how different there take on things are. What are we to do?

All you can do is accept each point of view and use what makes sense to you.

Some have problems that go way back to what and how Ed Parker did some things and won't give credit to anyone else that may have worked with him when they were not involved or around.

If we go by what has been printed and defined in several publications (long before Ed Parker passed on I might add) you will discover the answer or the source of conflict from some since it is different than their definition.

:asian: