USAT and the reginations

[MSUTKD]

This is really a paradigm shift in US Taekwondo. Our NGB is now beginning to act like an NGB, as a sport organization. Its job is to develop the best athletes in the US, field them in international games and to win Olympic medals. This is very different than before and I understand the problems that have come of this. Look at ANY other sport, gymnastics, judo, boxing, fencing, etc; at the NGB level it is the same, only the top athletes are their focus. Nor is it easy to get on any of those teams. No member, parent or aficionado has any say in the running of these sports. To be a top coach in these programs requires that you follow their coaching programs, and pay for them. Many of them “farm” out these training sessions to former athletes or training organizations. Referees also have to spend time and money to participate, as most do not receive any real compensation. It is very difficult to get people to referee because of this, the ones that do sacrifice a great deal to do so. The responsibility that they have is great and I believe that they always try their best, though they also take the most crap due to bad sportsmanship from players, coaches and spectators (parents).
This is so different from the way we did things before with the “Master/Student” style of management of the USTU. The mistake there was assuming that because someone had rank they knew how to run a sport organization. It was better at the grassroots but it alienated many people and created major corruption. Many top competitors “lost” fights because of politics.
We need both things, but whether one organization can fill the void is unsure. The AAU is good for the grassroots feeling but the USAT is trying hard to become a proper NGB. It would be nice to combine this but show me an Olympic sport that does this.
We now, are going to have the toughest time dealing with the change. The resignation of those individuals is sad, they are actually great people but I think they also had some misinformation. I hope that the politically charged environment calms down but that is going to take “positive” actions on all sides. We need those that have left and I hope that something is done to bring them back on. Let’s not spread the hate and animosity but try to “help” create the Taekwondo we need by our own actions.

ron

 

[hal-apino]

Hal is very passionate about this subject but a lot of what is said is speculation.

Yes I am very passionate! And nothing in my post are speculations they are facts backed upo with documentions!

I attended the Nationals this year and also paid for the coaching seminar. Many people had knocked it and I decided to “see for myself” if what was being said was true. It was actually a very good seminar and I learned a great deal.

I am happy you liked the seminar, however it should have never been mandatory!
For many, many, many there was no need for the seminar and they learned nothing!
You are an educator, why would someone at a university go back to grade school!

It certainly was better than the first one I took over 20 years ago at the Dayton nationals and all of the others I have attended.

Yep I am sure that is was I-pods are better in just a year! Gosh 20 years..perhaps you did enjoy the seminar!

There are problems in the USAT but it still has hope.

Glad we can understand that we have problems! Yep hopefully we will soon get TKD people running our TKD sport!

I even had a conversation with the USAT CEO about this very matter. I will share that info on a private basis with any of you that ask.

There was a general Assembly I would hope that he shared it all there! There should be NO PRIVATE anything!

I hope we can keep a real conversation on this board as Hal and another member on OE have tried to contact my employer because I did not agree with them and also use my real name. I consider that to be unacceptable behavior for an adult and I believe it shows the real character of the individual. Threatening individuals is immoral and discredits the viewpoint that the individual takes.

ron

Ron I have never tried or attempted to contact your employers! I suggest you change that immediately ! Ron You uses your real name! You signed your real name with your employer! It shows your character by posting such out landaus lies! You show mw where I have ever post anything close to this! I can show you where you have attacked my 14 year old daughter on more than one occasion and got the wrath of OE for doing so!

That in my opinion is immoral and unacceptable behavior of an adult, and a "Master" and Educator!

Denise Coyle
www.recoiltkd.com

 

[hal-apino]

This is really a paradigm shift in US Taekwondo. Our NGB is now beginning to act like an NGB, as a sport organization. Its job is to develop the best athletes in the US, field them in international games and to win Olympic medals. This is very different than before and I understand the problems that have come of this. Look at ANY other sport, gymnastics, judo, boxing, fencing, etc; at the NGB level it is the same, only the top athletes are their focus. Nor is it easy to get on any of those teams. No member, parent or aficionado has any say in the running of these sports. To be a top coach in these programs requires that you follow their coaching programs, and pay for them. Many of them “farm” out these training sessions to former athletes or training organizations. Referees also have to spend time and money to participate, as most do not receive any real compensation. It is very difficult to get people to referee because of this, the ones that do sacrifice a great deal to do so. The responsibility that they have is great and I believe that they always try their best, though they also take the most crap due to bad sportsmanship from players, coaches and spectators (parents).
This is so different from the way we did things before with the “Master/Student” style of management of the USTU. The mistake there was assuming that because someone had rank they knew how to run a sport organization. It was better at the grassroots but it alienated many people and created major corruption. Many top competitors “lost” fights because of politics.
We need both things, but whether one organization can fill the void is unsure. The AAU is good for the grassroots feeling but the USAT is trying hard to become a proper NGB. It would be nice to combine this but show me an Olympic sport that does this.
We now, are going to have the toughest time dealing with the change. The resignation of those individuals is sad, they are actually great people but I think they also had some misinformation. I hope that the politically charged environment calms down but that is going to take “positive” actions on all sides. We need those that have left and I hope that something is done to bring them back on. Let’s not spread the hate and animosity but try to “help” create the Taekwondo we need by our own actions.

ron
__________________
Ron Southwick
Michigan State University
Taekwondo Program
www.msutaekwondo.org

Ron, please tell me what misinformation these 4 board members had, I think what the problem is the you are misinformed! Have you seen the evidence, have you talked to the 4? These are 4 people in TKD that are very well respected!

This is the problem! No one wants to look at the facts. People just write what ever they want and never concider the facts. Just like you Ron, you post things that are totally false about me and hope that people will believe you, post the facts! You once said in a post that I was a liar and never seen Herb's contract and therefore should not post about it! Well funny the contract was then posted on www.recoiltkd.com !

What I like is the truth and the facts! People are smart enough to make up there our minds! Here is a fact! You do not have people like Tim Thakery one of our top TKD athletes resign from our board over misinformation!

Ron, were you at the general assembly? Were you at the meetings? Have you spoke to Master Pham about the elections! Did you sit down with anyone from TRUE and get there objectives! Or Mr. Holloway? Have you read the formal complaints Herb Perezfiled on the board members?
Again Ron I like the facts...not the used car salesman speal by Mr. Askinas!
I have heard it many times! But the funny things is I have never seen it!
I will post positive when I see positive! I will post Truth and facts until then.

 

[hal-apino]

I know we will be doing AAU next year except something chages real soon. It is a shame my school has always tried to support them and they are just kicking me and my athletes in the *** way to much.

Next year I would like to see how they plan on having enough referees for both Juniors and Senior combined the do not have enough now as it is.

Thanks again Hal

Terry

I spoke to Master Holloway for hours in Cleveland it does seem to be a concern! Many other Referees are concerned as well. I am being told they are going to need at least 150 referees. Juniors they had 97 qualified and 28 D referees for 13 rings. They are going to need at least 20 rings, that meaning many more referees! Again we need more referees , but with the rules change allowing them, it could turn into another Juniors if they have to many! Many from True do not believe that D referees should be judging during the world class.

I think we do have many in this sport that all have the same hope and goals, it's just getting pass "THEM" "THEY" who ever they or them are!

 

[Kacey]

Ron, please tell me what misinformation these 4 board members had, I think what the problem is the you are misinformed! Have you seen the evidence, have you talked to the 4? These are 4 people in TKD that are very well respected!

I don't recall anyone saying these four people are not respected - in fact, if you check my previous post on this thread, I commended them for their integrity. Have you talked to these four people? Do you have any evidence? What proof have you that Ron is misinformed? You won't take his word for it, but apparently you expect him - and the rest of us - to take your word for it.

This is the problem! No one wants to look at the facts. People just write what ever they want and never concider the facts. Just like you Ron, you post things that are totally false about me and hope that people will believe you, post the facts! You once said in a post that I was a liar and never seen Herb's contract and therefore should not post about it! Well funny the contract was then posted on www.recoiltkd.com !

Again, you know that Ron's posting is opinion and not fact how? I am open to hearing facts - and I would prefer fact - but I see no facts in your post, just unsupported statements that Ron's posting is not factual.

What I like is the truth and the facts! People are smart enough to make up there our minds! Here is a fact! You do not have people like Tim Thakery one of our top TKD athletes resign from our board over misinformation!

Really? I belong to a totally different TKD organization, but I used to belong to the USTF; I left when my instructor and his instructor left... and my instructor's instructor was a VII Dan and the vice president of the USTF at the time he left... due, in large part, to misinformation given to him. Therefore, I find it hard to believe your statement in the absence of any facts.

Ron, were you at the general assembly? Were you at the meetings? Have you spoke to Master Pham about the elections! Did you sit down with anyone from TRUE and get there objectives! Or Mr. Holloway? Have you read the formal complaints Herb Perezfiled on the board members?

Were you at the general assembly? Were you at the meetings? Have you spoken to Master Pham about the elections? Did you sit down with anyone from TRUE and get there objectives! Or Mr. Holloway? Have you read the formal complaints Herb Perezfiled on the board members?

Your statements mean nothing without the facts you profess to prefer, but have yet to provide.

Again Ron I like the facts...not the used car salesman speal by Mr. Askinas!
I have heard it many times! But the funny things is I have never seen it!
I will post positive when I see positive! I will post Truth and facts until then.

Which facts are you posting? Your post has a large number of questions, and a great deal of "I don't believe you because your post has no facts" - but I see no facts in your post. Either support your statements with fact, or quit expecting readers of this thread to take your unsupported word.

 

[hal-apino]

I don't recall anyone saying these four people are not respected - in fact, if you check my previous post on this thread, I commended them for their integrity. Have you talked to these four people? Do you have any evidence? What proof have you that Ron is misinformed? You won't take his word for it, but apparently you expect him - and the rest of us - to take your word for it.

They should be be commended, Yes I have spoke to these 4 people! Yes I have lots of evidence! Have seen the formal complaints from Herb Perez and have spoke to the Chair of the Ethics committe who was asked to recuse himself!
I do not expect any one to take my word, just as I said in the last post I spoke many times of the facts of the Contract! Ron was misinformed as he clearly had never seen the contract and accused me of not having the facts and not seening the contract! Again the contract was posted! I spoke of the contract as I seen the contract! I spoke of the Berkey conflcit, again being told that I had no eveidence! Well I guess I did as I posted it too!

Again, you know that Ron's posting is opinion and not fact how? I am open to hearing facts - and I would prefer fact - but I see no facts in your post, just unsupported statements that Ron's posting is not factual.

Ron posted that I threatened to call his employer! That never happend if it did post it! If I am going to make such a statment I am going to be able to back it up with facts!

Really? I belong to a totally different TKD organization, but I used to belong to the USTF; I left when my instructor and his instructor left... and my instructor's instructor was a VII Dan and the vice president of the USTF at the time he left... due, in large part, to misinformation given to him. Therefore, I find it hard to believe your statement in the absence of any facts.

Sorry but you lost me on this one! My point, Ron has no information that the 4 on the board were misinformed what is he basing that on and what is the misinformation! Or again is this something that he was told. What are the facts! It's a fair question so that others reading are again not misinformed.

Were you at the general assembly? Were you at the meetings? Have you spoken to Master Pham about the elections? Did you sit down with anyone from TRUE and get there objectives! Or Mr. Holloway? Have you read the formal complaints Herb Perezfiled on the board members?

Yes I was at the general assembly, on of the 5 that got to ask a question during the question and answers and all 5 never recieved an answer. I was personally invited to the board meeting by a board member and declined the invatation as I had another meeting that showed to be more possitive.
Yes I sat down with three members from True and had some great possitive things come out of it and continue to work towards a better outcome.
Yes, Mr. Holloway approched me and we taked for 4 hours, and he too has some interesting ideas and offered my daughter his support 100%.

Yes I read the complaints Herb filed on the board and the one he filed on me at the same time there's were filed!

Your statements mean nothing without the facts you profess to prefer, but have yet to provide.

What facts would you like! I have only now spoke of Ron's attack on me!
I have not attacked Ron, why does he feel then need to attack me and lie!
that I have threatened him in a post on OE! Show me that! Any thing Ron has ever called me on I have provided!

Which facts are you posting? Your post has a large number of questions, and a great deal of "I don't believe you because your post has no facts" - but I see no facts in your post. Either support your statements with fact, or quit expecting readers of this thread to take your unsupported word.

I am asking Ron to share what misinformation that the 4 have been misinformed of? Simple Question!

 

[Kacey]

I'm having a great deal of difficulty following your posts; any comments I have made which you have difficulty following are due to the fact that I am responding to what I think you are saying - but to be completely honest, I am unclear as to the points you are making. You use exclamation points almost exclusively, which is very hard to follow, and I have yet to see any facts - you keep saying you have them, and alluding to what they might be, but I have yet to see any facts posted.

You keep stating that you are telling the truth and Ron is lying - how do any of us know? You say that you have met with these people, that you were present at the general assembly, that you have seen the formal complaints, that you will only post facts.... but I have yet to see any proof of these facts. My tablecloth is blue - that is a fact. What proof do you have, beyond my unsupported word, that my tablecloth is, indeed, blue? Only my unsupported word. What proof do any of us have that you are telling the truth? Right now, only your unsupported word. This is not to say I believe you or disbelieve you - at this point, however, I have no reason to believe you, except that you are clearly passionate about the information you are posting.

The internal politics of any organization often create a great deal of emotion in the people involved; political strife often polarizes people on the extreme ends of any divisive issues. It appears that this occurence - the resignations - and the events leading up to and following the resignations is such a polarizing issue. I am interested in this solely as an intellectual question - I know virtually nothing about the USAT as an organization other than what has been posted in this thread. I know none of the people posting about this issue, and none of the people being posted about. Without proof of the statements being issued, I have no way to know what is fact, what is opinion, what is belief, what is desire - therefore, until such time as verifiable facts are posted - that is, information that is corroborated by unimpeachable sources from off this board - for example, official minutes of the general assembly - I will withdraw from this discussion, as I do not have access to verifiable facts on which to form an opinion.

 

[terryl965]

Please everyone lets talk about what happened and what is going to happen imstead of you is lyeing and telling the truth, we all have our opinions and some of us have what we believe to be true.

The bottom lne is what is going to happen to all those athlete and how can it be fix or is it a dead issue.

Thank you all
Master Stoker
Concern Coach
Concern Parent of Athletes
And Concern School owner

 

[hal-apino]

I'm having a great deal of difficulty following your posts; any comments I have made which you have difficulty following are due to the fact that I am responding to what I think you are saying - but to be completely honest, I am unclear as to the points you are making. You use exclamation points almost exclusively, which is very hard to follow, and I have yet to see any facts - you keep saying you have them, and alluding to what they might be, but I have yet to see any facts posted.

www.recoiltkd.com

You keep stating that you are telling the truth and Ron is lying - how do any of us know? You say that you have met with these people, that you were present at the general assembly, that you have seen the formal complaints, that you will only post facts.... but I have yet to see any proof of these facts. My tablecloth is blue - that is a fact. What proof do you have, beyond my unsupported word, that my tablecloth is, indeed, blue? Only my unsupported word. What proof do any of us have that you are telling the truth? Right now, only your unsupported word. This is not to say I believe you or disbelieve you - at this point, however, I have no reason to believe you, except that you are clearly passionate about the information you are posting.

If you say you have a blue table cloth and in fact it is blue than it would be easy to prove it was blue and you have one! If I say I was at the general assembly and they had 55 people there, than it would be easy to prove I was there.

The internal politics of any organization often create a great deal of emotion in the people involved; political strife often polarizes people on the extreme ends of any divisive issues. It appears that this occurence - the resignations - and the events leading up to and following the resignations is such a polarizing issue.

With the resignations of the 4 board members it would also appear that what I have posted in past holds water.

I am interested in this solely as an intellectual question - I know virtually nothing about the USAT as an organization other than what has been posted in this thread. I know none of the people posting about this issue, and none of the people being posted about. Without proof of the statements being issued, I have no way to know what is fact, what is opinion, what is belief, what is desire - therefore, until such time as verifiable facts are posted - that is, information that is corroborated by unimpeachable sources from off this board - for example, official minutes of the general assembly - I will withdraw from this discussion, as I do not have access to verifiable facts on which to form an opinion.

I think it's great that you are interested, I think all need to be interested in the sport that they have given so much to and love. You are correct in not knowing what is true and what is not, I much felt the same way when all the chaos started, that is why I did not take anyone for their word and decided to start my own research. Most of what is posted is opinion and opinions are great but they are just that. Again so that you understand, if I talk about a contract and make factual statements about a contract that means I have seen the contract.

Geez...that was hard to do with out all my !!!!!

 

[hal-apino]

Please everyone lets talk about what happened and what is going to happen imstead of you is lyeing and telling the truth, we all have our opinions and some of us have what we believe to be true.

The bottom lne is what is going to happen to all those athlete and how can it be fix or is it a dead issue.

Thank you all
Master Stoker
Concern Coach
Concern Parent of Athletes
And Concern School owner

Great Idea! The first thing we need to work on is the Referee issue!
That is a big problem that is going to hit us again at juniors.

 

[terryl965]

Great Idea! The first thing we need to work on is the Referee issue!
That is a big problem that is going to hit us again at juniors.

True and one of the biggest problem is if you referee you are not allowed to coach that hurts alot of us since we are the coaches for our own players.

They have no clue as to where to get referee's that are qualify and be willing to go all out for them right now.
I wish I had answers but I do not this whole stituation is going to blow up in the next couple of months and when it does the people getting hurt the most is the athletes and there familys
Terry

 

[hal-apino]

Your right! I know there are people that are trying to come up with a solution.
I also believe you are correct that this will blow up soon, it can not stay on this path and go well.

We need an independent referee program run by referees using USAT policies and procedures. That would be difficult as we have no Policies and procedures. With Monica leaving I do not know at this time who will be replacing her. I have heard rumors, nothing good. This is an important position that needs much consideration. I strongly believe that we need more people with TKD experience and involvement.

I am also concerned with membership renewal approaching what kind of numbers we are going to see.

It's funny that you mention the AAU, The AAU as leading the way in membership. They offer a great value for the price, Mr. Friello is very involved with the athletes. I think if the USAT was not the NGB they perhpas would have a different attitude and gain membership the attitude now is that they are the only show in town and we have no choice.

The fact is we do have a choice and it is the AAU. Realistically how many are going to get to the Olympics? My choice is AAU until they clean house at the USAT! I have hope for the USAT as I know there are many good people that are working to make changes. That being said it will have to hit bottom before you see any improvements.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

What is everybody take on what is happening with the USAT



USAT Statement on Board of Directors Resignations

</STRONG>November 9, 2006

The USA Taekwondo Board of Directors has accepted the resignations of Eric Laurin, Jason Poos, Robert Gallagher and Tim Thackrey that were tendered to the USAT on October 31, 2006. While the USAT strongly disagrees with the accuracy of the statement read by these Directors on the floor of the 2007 General Assembly, it serves no purpose at this time to enter into a debate as to the reasons for the resignations. Rather, the USAT is better served by looking forward. USAT must develop programs that will help its athletes achieve sustained competitive excellence and it must promote and grow the sport of Taekwondo. The current members of the Board of Directors are committed to accomplishing those goals and to fostering an environment that leads to effective leadership for the organization.

Okay, I am going to give my opinion, but I don't want anyone to think that I am being sarcastic or a jerk with any of my comments.

I have read this line and most of the thread and am wondering: if this is so upseting, why be in the USAT?

This whole thread reads like a gossip laced soap opera plot. Why pay money to be part of a mess?

Why do schools need to be a part of the USAT to train in tkd? Why not just drop the school memberships and focus on training and not drama?

AoG

 

[exile]

Why do schools need to be a part of the USAT to train in tkd? Why not just drop the school memberships and focus on training and not drama?

AoG

AoG---I haven't been able to follow the details, but I've been assuming that the question is not a matter of training in TKD but competing in TKD. The USAT is the US national `franchise' of the WTF competition circuit, no? So if you want to compete in sport TKD under WTF rules, with WTF poomsae standards and so on, you gotta belong to USAT in this country or you don't get to play.

It doesn't bear on me or my school one way or the other, because we are completely focused on the effective combat apps side of TKD, we do the Palgwes, not the Taegeuks, and get along just fine. But there are a lot of schools for whom the competition aspect is very important. Those are the folks who sort of stuck in a bind over this crisis... though I really have no clue what actually happened or what's at stake!

 

[tkdblackbelt1978]

Hello. It is disappointing to hear of all the political turmoil in the USAT. It will be interesting to see how the US truely fairs in the Olympic Team Trials and Olympic Games.

In light of all of this behind the scenes garbage, they are some really excellent competitors coming down the pipeline. I think the US has a real shot at the Olympic Heavy weight spot for '08.

-Adrian Stavish

 

[terryl965]

Okay, I am going to give my opinion, but I don't want anyone to think that I am being sarcastic or a jerk with any of my comments.

I have read this line and most of the thread and am wondering: if this is so upseting, why be in the USAT?

This whole thread reads like a gossip laced soap opera plot. Why pay money to be part of a mess?

Why do schools need to be a part of the USAT to train in tkd? Why not just drop the school memberships and focus on training and not drama?

AoG

SIr the question you ask are great ones and you would think it would be easy to get away from them but if you have any athlete that is trying to make the Olympic team in TKD then they must be a part of this crap. They are the only NGB around for TKD and until The USOC changes it we are like fish in a barrel dammed if we do and dammed if we don't.
Terry

 

[terryl965]

Hello. It is disappointing to hear of all the political turmoil in the USAT. It will be interesting to see how the US truely fairs in the Olympic Team Trials and Olympic Games.

In light of all of this behind the scenes garbage, they are some really excellent competitors coming down the pipeline. I think the US has a real shot at the Olympic Heavy weight spot for '08.

-Adrian Stavish

Adrian first off welcome to MT, secondly you are right we have some great player. Steven Lamdon from Texas and alot of other but will we be able to survive until 2012 and beyond with everything

 

[ArmorOfGod]

SIr the question you ask are great ones and you would think it would be easy to get away from them but if you have any athlete that is trying to make the Olympic team in TKD then they must be a part of this crap. They are the only NGB around for TKD and until The USOC changes it we are like fish in a barrel dammed if we do and dammed if we don't.
Terry

I understand now. I didn't know that the USAT was the only way to get to Olympic TKD. I guess you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't, like you said.
I have been spoiled a little on this topic. I have been training for the past 15 years in a family of 4 schools that have no organizational ties. Our grandmaster seeded the state with about a dozen schools that all were loosely tied to eachother, but no true organizations.
Olympics are not an issue for us, so we just train and go to tournaments that we like, but don't get up in org politics.
Now that I have said that, I will admit that we gossip eachother like crazy, so you can't avoid the drama.
;-)

AoG

 

[terryl965]

I understand now. I didn't know that the USAT was the only way to get to Olympic TKD. I guess you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't, like you said.
I have been spoiled a little on this topic. I have been training for the past 15 years in a family of 4 schools that have no organizational ties. Our grandmaster seeded the state with about a dozen schools that all were loosely tied to eachother, but no true organizations.
Olympics are not an issue for us, so we just train and go to tournaments that we like, but don't get up in org politics.
Now that I have said that, I will admit that we gossip eachother like crazy, so you can't avoid the drama.
;-)

AoG

Sir you are right everybody is full of gossup. I hope you continue to be a voice for TKD

 

[Brad Dunne]

The USAT is running on a similar, if not the same path, that the USTU ran on and that's right into the garbage can. Political internal turmoil allowed the USAT to be born, but my feeling is that this time, the USOC (Olympic Committee) will not allow a rebirth but will direct their efforts to the AAU. After all, the AAU was doing olympic business, long before either of those organizations were ever thought of. The AAU in all probability, could take over right away, if they were given the nod. I'm not a member of either organization, but in my opinion the AAU would do a much better job than what's available now. Because they have so much history with the olympics in other sports, I don't think they would allow themselves to fall into a mess like there is now and that could only mean favorable support for the athletes.