USA should not be in haiti

[Thesemindz]

I really don't understand the mentality of keeping, Cuba, Haiti, Central, and South America Dirt poor. Can't we give eachother a hand up instead of isolating ourselves from the rest of the world? If we did go ahead and let millions die and suffer after a tragedy, most people will cross the street to avoid giving money to a homeless guy for beer.
Sean

It's really very simple.

Their governments have a vested interest in keeping them poor so that the people who run those governments can make fortunes in graft off foreign aid. Our government has a vested interest in keeping them poor because they can use them as a justification for taxation to fund foreign aid, which they will also make fortunes supplying.

The people of those countries don't want to be poor, and we don't want them poor, but we don't get a say.

These things don't happen by accident. Look at Mexico, or most of Africa, or Asia, or most of Europe and Russia. These places are filled with natural resources, yet their dirt poor.

It's by design.


-Rob

 

[Tez3]

Easy there Tez.

I don't owe them anything. I didn't do anything to them in the first place. Others may have in my name, but it was either without my knowledge or against my express wishes. I can't be held responsible for evil done by others.

You want to help Haiti with your own money, feel free. In fact I think that's admirable and commendable. But you can not attach moral value to actions taken under duress.

The government money which has gone to the legitimate victims of both foreign and domestic state oppression and natural disasters was itself extracted from private citizens at the point of a sword. This doesn't make things "squaresies," it simply further spreads violence.

If you want to feel good about helping others, encourage people to give, not to take.


-Rob

Yes but you aren't the one whinging so it wasn't aimed at you was it?

 

[CoryKS]

No, what I'm saying is, why are we not helping own own struggling people? Why fly to another place when there are people in your community that are in need of help.
If you want to do good things for people, get in your car and drive down the street, I'm positive there is a struggling family close by. We are having issues in our own country that should be resolved before we go spending millions on other non americans.

You need to be more clear on what the problem is rather than vaguely lumping poor Americans and Haitian earthquake victims together as "struggling people".

The Americans you refer to struggle for a number of reasons which may include one or more of the following: physical disability, mental illness, drug addiction, poor education, local economic downturn, bad personal choices, or just plain old dumb luck. Because there is a multitude of problems to be addressed, a couple million dollars is not going to make much of an impact. We know this because quite a few million dollars in the form of taxpayer money and charitable contributions are being used to tackle these issues, and have been for many years. Now, it may be possible that those millions that were sent to Haiti might have been the crucial expenditure that would have finally brought resolution to all these problems after all these years. I have my doubts.

The Haitians may have a segment of the population with the same problems listed above. We are not addressing that. Relief to Haiti is addressing the problem that their entire infrastructure was wiped out, and that money is going toward fixing basic things like water supply and hospitals. This will help a lot more people, more directly and more efficiently than anything that could be done for the people in this country that you are referring to.

The argument that "we shouldn't waste money on _____ when we have so much ________" has been used many times by people who have a project that is close to their hearts. Why spend money on AIDS research while people are dying of breast cancer? Why spend money on breast cancer while heart disease is on the rise? The point is that there are finite resources that can be brought to bear against an infinite number of problems. Somebody's always going to have a different opinion on where the money is best spent. If you feel so strongly about the plight of your fellow Americans, you are welcome to use your resources to help them. I would recommend the United Way.

 

[punisher73]

Hmmmm..interesting idea and concept. I don't think the debate should be whether or not we should help out another country like Haiti in time of great need. I think we should because it's the right thing to do, all politics aside.

My problem lies in that Americans (talking private citizens here not gov't) are more than happy to throw a few extra dollars here and there in places like Haiti because they feel bad about what happened and it makes them feel good, but take no part to relieve the suffering at their own doorstep by donating time or money to help out their fellow neighbors.

To me that is frustrating. A tragedy happens in another country and many people trample over the homeless person at their doorstep to put their money in the mail and then brag about how good they are and how they helped out. All the while never sacrificing of themselves, only giving out of their excess.

 

[MA-Caver]

DeLamarJ, you brought up a very good discussion and I've pondered this myself for many years over many disasters and situations.
Having been among the homeless, poor, destitute in America and then climbing my back outta that hole (more than once) and then sitting quietly in a nice warm house/apartment, safe, secure, food in the fridge and pantry and a decent (minimum) wage job and all that... reading how we are $ending million$ to Africa, Asia and all those other countries (3rd World) and asking the same question... why? Why when we are in need here.
Omar and the others gave great answers and I'll not knock them at all.

In a lot of ways America is obligated to help out, and to see that just go to a very crowded area and sit and watch people for a little while... Look at the immense diversity of that crowd. Think of how many ancestral countries are represented. Think about how much work their grandfathers and grandmothers and great-grandparents and so on had put in to make this country? They could've stayed in their own home country and put in the amount of effort.
Chances are they'd have different results because of the level of freedoms by comparison.
Either way we send help because we can, because they can't.
The people are now still in need and they're praying and praying hard as this particular essay shows... one month after the earthquake.
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/2010/02/haiti-one-month-after-the-eart.html
If anything think about the children getting stuck in the middle of all of it.

There's poor all over the world... this photo essay shows one other tiny little corner that is really suffering... http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/2010/02/poverty-in-cambodia.html
If anything... think about the children getting stuck in the middle of all of that.

:asian:

 

[Tez3]

There is no reason why people can't help at home and overseas, often what's needed to help people in your own country is spending time and effort rather than just throwing money at a charity. Money is easiest for overseas charities for many reasons in times of disaster such. Governments and official bodies can send out relief teams such as the search and rescue people.
Helping people at home can take many forms, charities often find it hard to find volunteers to help in many different ways, it could be as simple as doing the paperwork for them, filing etc or it could be campaigning and lobbying political bodies, working in charity shops, teaching people to read and write, there's a very long list. sometimes money isn't just whats needed, its human beings on the ground doing their best. It's not someone elses job to help, it's everyone's country so everyone should be doing their bit.

 

[Touch Of Death]

DeLamarJ, you brought up a very good discussion and I've pondered this myself for many years over many disasters and situations.
Having been among the homeless, poor, destitute in America and then climbing my back outta that hole (more than once) and then sitting quietly in a nice warm house/apartment, safe, secure, food in the fridge and pantry and a decent (minimum) wage job and all that... reading how we are $ending million$ to Africa, Asia and all those other countries (3rd World) and asking the same question... why? Why when we are in need here.
Omar and the others gave great answers and I'll not knock them at all.

In a lot of ways America is obligated to help out, and to see that just go to a very crowded area and sit and watch people for a little while... Look at the immense diversity of that crowd. Think of how many ancestral countries are represented. Think about how much work their grandfathers and grandmothers and great-grandparents and so on had put in to make this country? They could've stayed in their own home country and put in the amount of effort.
Chances are they'd have different results because of the level of freedoms by comparison.
Either way we send help because we can, because they can't.
The people are now still in need and they're praying and praying hard as this particular essay shows... one month after the earthquake.
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/2010/02/haiti-one-month-after-the-eart.html
If anything think about the children getting stuck in the middle of all of it.

There's poor all over the world... this photo essay shows one other tiny little corner that is really suffering... http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/photos/2010/02/poverty-in-cambodia.html
If anything... think about the children getting stuck in the middle of all of that.

:asian:

The United States just happens to be a place where if you really make a few personal changes you can pull yourself out of poverty; in Haiti, you got no chance.
sean

 

[Gordon Nore]

The United States just happens to be a place where if you really make a few personal changes you can pull yourself out of poverty; in Haiti, you got no chance.
sean

As much as I admire the USA for many things it does well, I'd have to say the above is a bit of an over-statement. I don't know of any place where pulling oneself out of poverty is anything but really hard work. It can be done in the USA; I'd say it's bloody unlikely in Haiti.

The OP asks specifically why resources should be expended in Haiti and not the USA, which has invited criticism of US international policy. I'm sure, in reality, that people in all countries pose this same question.

Helping people in Haiti and helping people in the US are two different things. The US and others are helping Haitians because they are living amongst rubble without potable water, sanitation, food or shelter. The reason for helping people who are in that situation is that if you don't, you're kind of being a dick.

 

[yorkshirelad]

The whole thing is simple. There's no need for a political debate. People are dying, children are parentless, the infrastructure is destroyed. It is not our duty as Brits or Canadians or Americans to help. It is our duty as HUMAN BEINGS. This is not a time for politics or political debates. It's a time to act. It annoys me no end to here people gripe about helping an already poor nation who have literally lost everything. Of course we have our problems here, but we have the means to deal with those problems. The Haitians don't.

 

[Gordon Nore]

it is our duty as human beings.

qft

 

[xJOHNx]

The whole thing is simple. There's no need for a political debate. People are dying, children are parentless, the infrastructure is destroyed. It is not our duty as Brits or Canadians or Americans to help. It is our duty as HUMAN BEINGS. This is not a time for politics or political debates. It's a time to act. It annoys me no end to here people gripe about helping an already poor nation who have literally lost everything. Of course we have our problems here, but we have the means to deal with those problems. The Haitians don't.

Best post in this topic.
Overhere, the number of events dedicated to Haiti (by young people) are uncountable. I like it, it shows that even in this modern day and age, youngsters still have some common sense to help out and forget about their own worries.
The B-fast team was there within 24 hours of the disaster. Doctors from the university hospital (especially nefrologists) go there on their own initiative to help people with the crush-syndrome.

Never heard anyone complain about it. We expect it from our govt.

And not to bash you original poster, but don't you find your own signature a bit ironic? Besides, helping the people in your own neighbourhood/town is easier than helping overthere. Start a People'sKitchen or a Food Not Bombs. You'll probably help the poor more than by handing them money.

 

[yorkshirelad]

And not to bash you original poster, but don't you find your own signature a bit ironic?

I've only just noticed that.......ironic indeed

 

[CoryKS]

It's bad enough that people feel compelled to preach to others regarding their charitable "duties", as if it wasn't a personal issue that has nothing to do with them. It's disgusting, quite frankly, to listen to people complain that you're helping the wrong people.

 

[Stac3y]

there are choices to be made. The argument can be made that if the $$ that goes into a weeks worth of us military spending were spent on the poor and helpless, the us would be all the better for it.

qft

 

[MJS]

This has been the topic of debate with a few people that I work with. Some are of the mind that we should help, others feel that we should worry about the issues in our country. Some are probably looking at it like, "Well, when 9-11 happened, how many of these places that we often help, came to help us?" Difference is, which has already been pointed out, is that these places dont have anything, so how can you give, when you dont have it to give?

I gave a contribution when I was asked at the grocery store. The clerk asked if I wanted to donate, so I gave $5. When 9-11 happened, the job I was working at, at the time, had a big collection, and I donated. I'm not going to go crazy, donating things, but I gave something, and IMO, its the thought that counts.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Some are probably looking at it like, "Well, when 9-11 happened, how many of these places that we often help, came to help us?"

Many countries helped with 9/11. I remember seeing Canadian covoys on the news. Same with Katrina, many helped.

But you're right, most of the places that need the aid, can't give it back, as they are just too poor.

So that asks the question, are you being nice only to get something in return, or because its the right thing to do?

 

[MJS]

Many countries helped with 9/11. I remember seeing Canadian covoys on the news. Same with Katrina, many helped.

Just for clarification, that wasn't my opinion, but the opinion that I've heard from others, who've been in my company, when discussions like this surface.

So that asks the question, are you being nice only to get something in return, or because its the right thing to do?

I'm not concerned about getting something in return. I do it because, as you said, its the right thing. Just prior to Christmas, my wife and I, along with my sister and brother in law, made our yearly trip to NYC. We drive to New Haven, CT., park and take the train. Upon our return, it was late, probably close to 11pm. The garage we park in, is a bit of a walk from the train station. So, as we're walking, this woman comes up from behind, calling to us. We all stop and turn to see what she wanted. She went on to say that her mother was sick and in the hospital in NY, and she was trying to get money for a ticket so she could see her. Now, 98% of me started to call BS on this, but the 2% was thinking...and hoping, and it was for real. My wife proceeded to go into her purse to get some cash. Of course, while she's doing this, I'm keeping an eye on the lady, as well as the 2 males who were standing outside of a nearby apt. building. Who knows...in that area, it could've been a set up.

So, she gives her $10, the woman thanks us, and the 4 of us continue to the parking garage. We did our good deed for the day, and hopefully the money was put to good use. I could have easily told her that she was getting nothing from us, and kept on walking.

There have been other times, when I've witnessed homeless people digging thru the trash, looking for food. The sight of that made me sick, and I began to stand up, as I was going to approach the person, and offer to buy them a hot meal. Before I had the chance, the lady grabbed a few trays of half eaten food, and ran off. Again, it was the thought that counts. This incident took place while we were in Macys, sitting down, taking a quick break from all the walking.

Sorry for the rant here. My point was simply that I have, many times, given money or helped those less fortunate. I'm not looking for any recognition, a medal or to have the red carpet rolled out. I simply do it, because I wanted to.

 

[Grenadier]

In the end, we are all God's children, and we should be helping one another. I see no problem sending aid to a nation that is unable to help itself for now.

At the same time, though, God also helps those who help themselves. If Haiti doesn't stabilize itself, it will continue going through one coup after another, and the situation will never improve.

Like it or not America has interfered in a lot of countries politics and civil disputes, always for America's good, never for the natives of that country.

Bash America for its involvement with Haiti? As if the country hadn't been interfered with previously?

Let's take a look at history:

15th - 16th century Spain essentially conquers the area, sucking the area dry of valuables, while also forcing their beliefs onto the people. Forced conversion to Catholicism was quite common. Also, don't forget about the "gift" of smallpox and the enslaving of the uncooperative natives.

18th century France exploits the area for its resources, and also keeps the population enslaved. France grows rich, while the natives remain dirt poor, and in decrepit conditions.

19th century France makes an attempt to conquer the island again, essentially extorting money from the gov't of Haiti.

19th century Germany supports the suppression of reform movements.

Early 20th century USA occupies Haiti, and in their evil conquering ways, created many miles of highways and bridges, along with a very good water structure. As a result, Haiti had a pretty good economy.

The occupationalist US leaves Haiti in 1937.

Haiti has a very sad history, left to itself perhaps it wouldn't be as poor as it is now, it certainly didn't start as a poor country.

It was transformed from a poor country to a better one because of US involvement.

 

[Gordon Nore]

So that asks the question, are you being nice only to get something in return, or because its the right thing to do?

I answer this with some trepidation, as I know very little about Haiti. Are Haitians not now trying to help each other through a difficult time -- sharing food or other resources with neighbours? Have they not aided in rescue and recovery? There are other ways that people give back.

During the 1930s people on the Canadian Prairies, where my father grew up, had to contend with The Great Depression and protracted droughts that led to crop failures -- fields of wheat turned to dust. In an era when no one had any money, help came from an unexpected source.

The people of Newfoundland -- during this time a British Protectorate, not a Province of Canada -- bundled up what they could: goods canned at home, fish, blankets. They sent it west to help their neighbours.

Decades later, when the Newfoundland and Labrador were stuggling without power or water during an ice storm, a pairie phmaracist who had heard the stories of eastern generosity from his parents and grandparents, organized a mission to send supplies to the rock.

In much the same fashion, I was very moved by the scene in Sicko where the 9/11 first responders met with Cuban firefighters. The Cuban first responders spoke of how they wished they could have to the aid of their colleagues in NYC. I don't think it was propaganda -- just good people wanting to do right by eachother.

After all the mess that Haiti has seen over the years, I hope that my reward as a Canadian for contributing to the effort is that Haitians can live decently and in safety.

 

[Ken Morgan]

My point was simply that I have, many times, given money or helped those less fortunate. I'm not looking for any recognition, a medal or to have the red carpet rolled out. I simply do it, because I wanted to.

and your country and the world is a better place for what you've done. :asian: