USA Coach punches Canadian in face after fight at US Open
- Thread starter mango.man
- Start date
As he should be!
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Texas...where others try to abolish the death penalty they install an express lane for it.
I am curious as to why you would say this.I think arrested is a bit of an overreaction. I'm sure that there are administrative penalties that will be applied, and rightfully so. But seriously guys. This is TKD. The punch probably didn't even hurt!
Just kidding! Seriously, though, it didn't look like anyone was injured. He should be punished, but arresting the guy seems overboard to me.
If I overreact about the treatment of my girlfriend while we're at a restaurant and deliver a bare knuckle close fist strike to the philtrum, I would be arrested.
Why do you feel that this is any different from a legal perspective?
Just because the victim is a trained fighter doesn't mean that it is okay for the other guy's coach to assult him. Besdes, this isn't the WWE, where manager interferrence is part of the show.
Also, after Angel Mattos and the embarrassment that that caused, coaches and players should be trying not to repeat such behavior.
Daniel
Yes of course on both sides of the issue. But not about the quality of fighting.
Also I did not mean all MMA fighting was good but anyone who understands marketing, money and media coverage and add budgets understands that MMA style fighting has far surpassed TKD with TKD possibly not even on the chart.
My point was a coach attacking a competitor got more media hits and attention than what should be coverage for a good fight. I was also being more sympathetic with penalties and reprimand for the coach but not criminal charges? was his true thinking intent to cause physical harm or with replay from other angles was it more a spastic move with unanticipated change of position of the competitor?
One thing I was thinking and did not say is some people who have been involved in contact sports for a long time get a certain mental condition that can evoke a certain involuntary or subconscious speech or motor movement lets call it Coaching Turrets Syndrome all laughing aside they speak or do something that is just purely automatic with out thinking.
In boxing Coaching outside the ring coaches yell suggestions to their competitor all the time. Our coaches are outside the ring also but are required to not speak or yell but sometimes the heat of the moment violate that rule.
Common Daniel are you really going to equate a man hitting a women bare fisted in public place the same as men getting out of control at a sports event? How about verbal? most domestic violence statutes state if you feel threatened verbally you can file? Isn't the WWE how many times have I watched Korean Masters attacking each other or the judges when they don't agree with the scoring?
But I would agree that the decision to file assault is a legal right and choice of the person who has been threatened or injured and the offender will just have to life with that.
How many times have you seen this? Was it at a local tournament, national or international event?
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I think I explained it more in a later post, Daniel. This is a sport, and in many sports, tempers flare and people get punched. Baseball players charge the mound when they're brushed back off the plate. Hockey players will start a fight just to give the home crowd fans a show if they're losing. Football players throw punches now and then.
It's not okay. But it's not worth prosecution. Just my opinion.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
I think it could be argued that punches between 'competitors' may be ok, but once spectators, coaches, managers, physios or any other hangers on get involved then its not ok. It would also be hard to police situations where physical assault is illegal UNLESS it happens at a sporting event, then its ok. I dont know how I could explain this line of reasoning to my kids as I bring them up. I can see it now, the police get called because some guy has assaulted another guy, the police arrive and the aggressor says "but officer, we were having a game of backyard cricket at his place so technically I can punch him because we were playing sport and tempers flared". Too much grey area for me, physical assault is physical assault, regardless of where it occurs. You just cant go around hitting people, we arent cavemen anymore.
According to he who shot the video, the USA coach was from Ong's TKD in Florida.
https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=149960695023174&v=wall (Ong's on Facebook)
Ong's Taekwondo - 4848 Sun N. Lake Blvd. - Sebring, FL - Angelito Ong - 863 314 9373 (From USAT Club Membership Page)
https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=149960695023174&v=wall (Ong's on Facebook)
Ong's Taekwondo - 4848 Sun N. Lake Blvd. - Sebring, FL - Angelito Ong - 863 314 9373 (From USAT Club Membership Page)
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I wouldn't advocate that behavior. I don't think it's okay. I just don't think it's worth putting the guy in jail. That's all.
But you're entitled to your opinion.
Taekwondo is different, there is in my opinion a zero tolerance for this sort of thing, unlike in other sports where bench clearing fights are not only accepted, but expected. I don't know if I would go so far as prosecute, but what that coach did was clearly unacceptable and inexcusable. I think it is a basic lack of respect and a lack of self discipline.
This wasn't a player, it was a coach. That's the key difference. I love hockey, used to play it (badly!!) and am a huge fan of the local teams here in New England. Fights happen all the time...between the players.
I have never seen a Bruins game where Julien got out on the ice and started to mix it up with whatever was going on. I had free tickets to the Manchester Monarchs this season, and never saw Mark Morris getting in to fisticuffs, or Paul Maurice of the Carolina Hurricanes get involved in a brawl.
Here is one interesting comment I have read about the situation. I don't know if this person was actually there or just saw the video and based their comments on the referee's actions in the last minute or so of the video.
"The aftermath behaviour by the US Taekwondo officials and certain US judges and such was even more of an embarrassment to the sport in my books."
If the coach was arrested and booked, I wonder what else this person wanted done.
And it is not unheard of for coaches to attack in professional sports. Have we already forgotten about Don Zimmer (Yankees) attacking Pedro Martinez (Red Sox) a few years back. If so, here is the video
Of course the 30 something year old Martinez got the better of the 70 something year old Zimmer, but still it was Zimmer that was initiating the attack.
"The aftermath behaviour by the US Taekwondo officials and certain US judges and such was even more of an embarrassment to the sport in my books."
If the coach was arrested and booked, I wonder what else this person wanted done.
And it is not unheard of for coaches to attack in professional sports. Have we already forgotten about Don Zimmer (Yankees) attacking Pedro Martinez (Red Sox) a few years back. If so, here is the video
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Just found the video from the other side of the mat (I thought there was to be no video taping on the floor).
Just 10 seconds but clearly shows the Canadian fighter punching the Florida fighter square in the nose (you can even hear it pretty clearly) likely breaking it and then the coach from Ong's comes flying in to deliver his retaliation, which you can also hear quite clearly.
Just 10 seconds but clearly shows the Canadian fighter punching the Florida fighter square in the nose (you can even hear it pretty clearly) likely breaking it and then the coach from Ong's comes flying in to deliver his retaliation, which you can also hear quite clearly.
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In the last 37 years including fairly recent all of the above and not trying to be judgmental but just pointing out we fall short of the philosophy and I would put Westernization and commercialization to fault but I could be wrong about that since the worst offenders have been Korean born masters/gm so did we contaminate them or is it a myth about perfection or are we all just humans imperfect still no matter we should do our best we can.
Some times the pot calling the kettle black is just to much
My understanding is that the student is the son of Angelito Ong from Florida and also is his coach. He was not coaching him in this match, his brother from Chicago was coaching him from what I have been told.
I was also told by a Canadian coach that Keal Pinto was disqualified by David Askinas after he tried to have the center Ref do it and she refused. Must be the reason they have posted Monday's results this morning but still not Sunday!
I was also told that David told Pinto if he filed charges that the Canadian Team would not be welcomed back to US Open. They are not to happy and are filing a complaint with WTF on David Askinas. If the coach is the brother of said coach in Florida he is also an IR, I would hope that the WTF strips his credentials as well as the USAT from coaching.
I was also told by a Canadian coach that Keal Pinto was disqualified by David Askinas after he tried to have the center Ref do it and she refused. Must be the reason they have posted Monday's results this morning but still not Sunday!
I was also told that David told Pinto if he filed charges that the Canadian Team would not be welcomed back to US Open. They are not to happy and are filing a complaint with WTF on David Askinas. If the coach is the brother of said coach in Florida he is also an IR, I would hope that the WTF strips his credentials as well as the USAT from coaching.
StudentCarl
3rd Black Belt
Time to get a bowl of popcorn; if any of this is right, we'll be reading about it for a while.
It doesn't make sense to me that the CEO would be in the role of disqualifying or even the due process. Do we really have a process that lets an uncertified official overrule a ring ref with no one else in between like a tournament director? The comment related to the Canadian team doesn't make sense to me either. Any victim of an assault/battery has the right to file a complaint, and I believe it's a crime to attempt to coerce someone to do otherwise. Is the Canadian coach someone with firsthand knowledge? Not questioning your integrity "Hal", but it would be good to know the sources on this. I wonder if the opposite side view video is a factor. What's the rest of the story?
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From a legal standpoint, it isn't. Laws regarding assault are not suspended at sporting events. The coach was not a participant and struck the victim with a bare knuckle punch, did he not? Legally, it is the same. That was clear and easily understood in my post.
Also, I meant to equate it to striking the waiter over poor treatment of a lady friend, though I looked at my post and I see that I forgot to say "to the waiter" after the attack description. My bad.
Check the laws in your state.
If I must explain the WWE reference, the WWE is a sport entertainment format where managers attacking participants is part of the show, and thus acceptable. Charges are not filed because the managers attacking participants is all scripted, and thus is not an assault.
A taekwondo tournament does not have scripted 'coaching interferrence' and thus a coach attacking a player is considered a violent attack and thus charges may be filed.
That is the short version of what I said. In this case, the victim has the law on his side.
Daniel
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