US military beats out Disney as happy place to work

[Carol]

Thanks for that Carol! Now she does have a hard job! Tell her to get an exchange posting over here to our RMP and we'll look after her!

I'll do that! :asian:

It is a hard job, but she loves it. She turned down a partial college scholarship to serve, and the only time I have ever heard her lament her choice was when she expressed how she did not like her initial MOS (radio signaling). That all changed once she got accepted to MP school, and now she is working towards becoming a Warrant Officer someday. She wants to stay out in the field, with the people.

She loves her job. That is not to say it is easy, or pretty, or convenient...but she loves it. Which is kinda how I feel about my own job. Perhaps she got the adrenaline junkie gene from her aunt

 

[Makalakumu]

The topic here is the ranking of the military in terms of job satisfaction, something of which you will never have first-hand knowledge. Stop littering the thread with your insulting comments about Nazis and babykillers.

Must have missed that link about Smedley Butler...

I wasn't talking about "Nazis" or "babykillers". I'm littering the thread with a perspective that is about two years from becoming common. As our currency continues to devalue, people are going to turn against the wars and see them as they truly are. Comments about blowing things up, need to be put in the proper perspective.

And the people who serve, well, they are some of the coolest and smartest guys around, but they made a bad decision and threw their lot into a melting pot of bad karma. I predict as the full cost of these wars becomes known, no one will join anymore, and no amount of articles like this will convince anyone of anything different.

Lastly, about this "study" itself. How are they counting? Do you think the Veterans with Gulf War Syndrome were counted as being happy? How about the vets with PTSD? Or how about the vets who got contaminated with DU and are on total disability? Up to 25% of the units who use this stuff are in really bad shape now. Who are they counting?

I can't do much to stop the war. I can't vote and make it stop. I can't just stop paying taxes for it. But I can talk to young people about what they will have to do if they join and appeal to their better natures. A former student of mine talked to me about becoming a Marine. While I respect the will to serve and protect, I am compelled to put out this information to balance the propaganda and hopefully make a difference this way.

Lastly, I'm disappointed in people who refuse to look at any contrary information. I get upset when people just go along with it and repeat the common message and we pay with so much. The financial strength of our economy and country are at risk, but the physical risks that the people put themselves through for obfuscated reasons are even worse.

If service in the military was a moral job about protecting our constitution and our homes from the use of force against us, I would be waving flags and cheering on the good men and women who chose to do it. Since it's not, I'm not going to pretend that it is anything different then what it is. And I'm going to throw out a different perspective and talk as many fine young people out of it as I can, for my sake, for your sake, and for our country's sake.

 

[CoryKS]

 

[Tez3]

Must have missed that link about Smedley Butler...

I wasn't talking about "Nazis" or "babykillers". I'm littering the thread with a perspective that is about two years from becoming common. As our currency continues to devalue, people are going to turn against the wars and see them as they truly are. Comments about blowing things up, need to be put in the proper perspective.

And the people who serve, well, they are some of the coolest and smartest guys around, but they made a bad decision and threw their lot into a melting pot of bad karma. I predict as the full cost of these wars becomes known, no one will join anymore, and no amount of articles like this will convince anyone of anything different.

Lastly, about this "study" itself. How are they counting? Do you think the Veterans with Gulf War Syndrome were counted as being happy? How about the vets with PTSD? Or how about the vets who got contaminated with DU and are on total disability? Up to 25% of the units who use this stuff are in really bad shape now. Who are they counting?

I can't do much to stop the war. I can't vote and make it stop. I can't just stop paying taxes for it. But I can talk to young people about what they will have to do if they join and appeal to their better natures. A former student of mine talked to me about becoming a Marine. While I respect the will to serve and protect, I am compelled to put out this information to balance the propaganda and hopefully make a difference this way.

Lastly, I'm disappointed in people who refuse to look at any contrary information. I get upset when people just go along with it and repeat the common message and we pay with so much. The financial strength of our economy and country are at risk, but the physical risks that the people put themselves through for obfuscated reasons are even worse.

If service in the military was a moral job about protecting our constitution and our homes from the use of force against us, I would be waving flags and cheering on the good men and women who chose to do it. Since it's not, I'm not going to pretend that it is anything different then what it is. And I'm going to throw out a different perspective and talk as many fine young people out of it as I can, for my sake, for your sake, and for our country's sake.

I think you need to separate the military from the government here. It's our governments that have put the troops into this situation not the troops themselves. They have joined up to serve their countries and to hopefully make a difference in a good way, the fact that governments have let them down is a huge cause for concern but the blame should be firmly put where it lies..with the politicians.

Your troops have joined up to defend your constitution, they are defending their country, your homes and you, but your governments have betrayed them as ours have our guys. Don't blame the troops, they serve their country, blame the governments who don't.

No, soldiers who have lost limbs and suffer PTSD aren't happy but ask them if they regret signing up and they'll say no, they'd do it again.

My Brigade is just about all back now, just a few to come over the next couple of weeks, it's taken a battering. 50 dead, nearly 300 battle casualties, 30 of which are triple amputees and many probable cases of PTSD. Do they regret being injured, yes of course, do they regret signing up? very few of them do. They shouldn't have been in Afghan, it's wrong but the troops are right, they do their best, they serve their country , the politicians have betrayed them and it's up to us to look after them now but never, ever are the troops to blame for being there.

Don't assume either that the troops are ignorant, uneducated or stupid. They know what to expect and still join up. We've had a recruitment ban in the army for most of this year, no 'propaganda' going out, no recruitment drives or ads. Plenty of television programmes about the war in afghanistan, the horrors of it, stories about injured soldiers and the dead ones yet when recruitment was opened up last month there were queues to join and not because of unemployment, as you know here they can stay on the dole if out of work.

Don't patronise soldiers or assume they are naive and ignorant, they aren't. For them the decision to join up is a good one, don't insult them by thinking they don't know their own minds.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye I do have to concurr :nods:. Tho I do I understand Mauna's feelings about the misuse of the resources and courage that the governments who rule us expend so with such blase disdain.

For now, our miltaries are being put to use in service of economic goals rather than more morally noble ones but that has mostly been the case throughout all of history. After all, it is only in recent times that we have come to believe that that should not be so.

 

[Tez3]

Aye I do have to concurr :nods:. Tho I do I understand Mauna's feelings about the misuse of the resources and courage that the governments who rule us expend so with such blase disdain.

For now, our miltaries are being put to use in service of economic goals rather than more morally noble ones but that has mostly been the case throughout all of history. After all, it is only in recent times that we have come to believe that that should not be so.

Absolutely, the blame however has to be laid at the politicians doors not the military. I find the idea that service personnel are ignorant and/or stupid very annoying, they are far from that and know as well as anyone why they are there.

(Sukerkin, our regiments are having homecoming marches through a lot of towns in the UK over the next few weeks if you want to keep an eye out for them. The QRL, my student's regiment is marching through Stafford on 11th Dec if that's not too far away?)

 

[Makalakumu]

I think you need to separate the military from the government here.

The military is PART of the government, not separate from it. They are a reflection of our politics and cannot be separated any more then you can separate on object and a reflected image. If you take the object away, the image is gone as well. No government, no military.

No, soldiers who have lost limbs and suffer PTSD aren't happy but ask them if they regret signing up and they'll say no, they'd do it again.

This isn't my experience. As part of my political work, I regularly speak to men and women where blown up in Iraq or Afghan and they are adamant that it was NOT worth it. They would not do it again and they tell others to not waste themselves for this.

Don't assume either that the troops are ignorant, uneducated or stupid.

It's not an assumption. It's a fact.

Most soldiers know absolutely nothing about the things that are portrayed in the linked documentary. If they do know about it, they want to get the hell out before they get hurt.

Ignorance isn't stupid. Just watch the video and ask yourself if you were ignorant or stupid because you didn't know this stuff? I would never call anyone stupid because they didn't know it.

For them the decision to join up is a good one, don't insult them by thinking they don't know their own minds.

Is it a good one? What about the people who did this? Did they make a good decision? Before you offer up the Nuremberg defense, know that you are held responsible for your decisions, you can't just claim you were following orders. On top of this, people volunteer to do this. They chose to spray nuclear waste in the form of DU munitions over the city and now it's worse then Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The difference is that this waste will never go away. It has a half life of 4.5 billion years, it will be there forever.

Can you honestly tell me that you would join a governmental organization that would do that? Can you honestly say that those men and women who did that made the right decision?

I went to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC about five years ago. Everyone was appalled and was wondering how could people do that to another human being. I'd like to submit this thread as an example of how it was done. Apparently people think that wasting millions of people, spraying toxic nuclear waste that cannot be cleaned up all over the cities and landscape, and mortgaging our childrens' future on dreams of hegemonic empire is BETTER then dancing around in a Mickey Mouse costume and making children laugh.

I challenge you all, if you have a moral bone left in your body that is unbroken, you will call this what it is right now.

 

[Archangel M]

Except for the deployments and the risk of death, the Army was part of my carefree days. I showed up, I worked when I had to and everything else was taken care of. I was fed, I was clothed, I knew where I was sleeping; even though sometimes it was on the hood of a HMMWV. For those who haven't lived it, there is a lot of stress relief in the regimented lifestyle. I didn't have to worry about if I was going to be laid-off or where the next meal was coming from. And on down time there were movies, kick *** gyms and free concerts.

And muanu..your "experience" is anecdotal and IMO full of crap. I agree with Tez (it happens most often in threads like this Tez ). Like her...it's beem my experience that many soldiers would do it all over again. Surprise, surprise that YOU have only seen the opposite...color me shocked (BTW thats sarcasm). I have seen soldiers with prosthetics stay in the military and go back to the combat zone. Go pedal your expertise elsewhere.

If service in the military was a moral job about protecting our constitution and our homes from the use of force against us, I would be waving flags and cheering on the good men and women who chose to do it.

:BSmeter::BSmeter::BSmeter:

Having never served yourself, WTF are you to say why a person puts their life on the line for their country? You have no clue.

 

[Tez3]

I will assume you are talking only about your troops. Ours aren't part of the government at all, their 'employer' is the monarch. Take our government away (please) and we will still have a ruler and the Armed Forces. Our troops swear allegiance to the Queen not the government, trust me, the loyalty is to the Queen. If push came to shove then the government could not bank on any loyalty from the Services.

Again I assume you speak for your troops when you say they wouldn't not join up again, the general consensus among ours is that they would.

I'm rather shocked that you think your troops are stupid, ignorant and uneducated. I'd like to hear others opinions on this. Carol, is your niece stupid, ignorant and uneducated, no, thought not. It's no good posting videos as 'proof' I can't see them, show me something else as I have no idea what you are talking about.

Nurembourg defence? How do I defend that when it was US marines? If I condemn it I'll be accused of being anti American and of course I can't condone it.

The British forces are taught that decisions are up to them, they are responsible, perhaps that's why our infantry soldiers have 23 weeks basic training where such things are taught. Even the lowest and nesest soldier is taught to lead and how to take responsibility, perhaps it doesn't work that way in your army, I don't know. I also don't know how easy it is to get in your army, what qualifications you need or what tests you have to do, these are our basic ones, there's also an interview where the candidate is interviews and is assessed on knowledge of the army's role and current affairs as pertains to the army.
http://www.army.mod.uk/join/20277.aspx

Forces education is among the best in the country, it's ongoing up to and beyond degree level. Private soldiers with degrees aren't rare even in the infantry. It all leads to the point that each soldier is responsible for their actions and yes, we've had soldiers on court martial and found guilty of war crimes.
You are focussing on one action by one group of service people, horrible as it may be and blaming every service person for it. they should be made accountable for their actions of that there is no doubt and I don't think anyone would disagree but ranting about all service people isn't logical.
We were discussing recently on here the death of the British aid worker in the attempted rescue of the Americans. Now whether the American soldier was to blame or not an enquiry will find out but how would you feel if I posted up that I thought all American service people were murdering scum because of that one incident, or I blamed all Americans for the friendly fire incidents that killed our troops? there would be outrage, rightly so.
If there's blame in those cases it lies only with those who are responsible no one else. You, however blame your own forces, all of them, for Fallujah. That's so blatently unfair, it amazes me. It also means that because of that unfairness the issue is clouded. Laying a blanket of blame over all the American Armed Forces hides those who are responsible and disrespects those that aren't.

 

[Archangel M]

No Tez...our troops are very similar . Take it from a Yank who WAS ONE vs one with an obvious axe to grind with the "military industrial complex".

 

[Tez3]

No Tez...our troops are very similar . Take it from a Yank who WAS ONE vs one with an obvious axe to grind with the "military industrial complex".

You know, I thought they were but didn't want to speak for them, thought it better an American did.

 

[Sukerkin]

(Sukerkin, our regiments are having homecoming marches through a lot of towns in the UK over the next few weeks if you want to keep an eye out for them. The QRL, my student's regiment is marching through Stafford on 11th Dec if that's not too far away?)

Aye, I'll try and be there - it is only the next town over. I quite often see what we have taken to calling the Gurkha Taxi's flying over where I work as they head for RAF Stafford .

Saw a pair of Apache's going over the other day - amazing sight.

 

[Archangel M]

You know, I thought they were but didn't want to speak for them, thought it better an American did.

While I have been "out" for a number of years now. I'm still in contact with a few who are "in". And most of the stories I hear from them is that our guys (Brit and US) get along really well in the field when they actually work together.

 

[Sukerkin]

I will assume you are talking only about your troops. Ours aren't part of the government at all, their 'employer' is the monarch. Take our government away (please) and we will still have a ruler and the Armed Forces. Our troops swear allegiance to the Queen not the government, trust me, the loyalty is to the Queen. If push came to shove then the government could not bank on any loyalty from the Services.

Aye, I've heard it from too many squadies not to believe it.

Again I assume you speak for your troops when you say they wouldn't not join up again, the general consensus among ours is that they would.

I have a close friend who was an artilleryman (nuke missile regiment) who is so ill that we frequently think we're going to lose him (dodgy ticker). If they asked him tomorrow to serve again he'd jump at the chance without hesitiation.

You, however blame your own forces, all of them, for Fallujah. That's so blatently unfair, it amazes me. It also means that because of that unfairness the issue is clouded. Laying a blanket of blame over all the American Armed Forces hides those who are responsible and disrespects those that aren't.

That is such an important point that it bears repeating.

In any large organisation there is ever going to be a percentage of what we can euphemistically call 'bad apples'. These will take advantage of a situation to give free-rein to their ill-intentions and, in all likelyhood, draw others along with them. That latter is made all the easier by the sense of stauch comraderie that ties a unit together, unless there is someone strong willed and principled enough to counter it.

Evil things can be done in such circumstances but to blame all for it makes no more sense than blaming all Muslim worshippers for 9-11. Lay the blame and the punishment where it justly lies rather than flay the whole military for the actions of a few.

 

[Tez3]

While I have been "out" for a number of years now. I'm still in contact with a few who are "in". And most of the stories I hear from them is that our guys (Brit and US) get along really well in the field when they actually work together.

One of our lads from the club has been training MMA with the Americans out in Afghan, he said they were more wrestling orientated so he's got a lot of new moves to show us while they take back the Judo and BJJ stuff he's taught them, summarises nicely I think the relationship, much in common with plenty to offer each other.

There's bad lots in every walk of life, the police have their share as does the medical profession, no profession or job is free of them, the forces are no exception but it tries as do all the 'good guys' to minimise, prevent or at least punish the people responsible whenever possible. If all service people were dishonourable nothing would be known about the things that do go wrong, there would be cover ups everywhere. People expect certain people to be perfect and never make mistakes or have bad judgement or to be down right bad. Medics, police, military, teachers even are all held to be that more moral and upright than everyone else so their 'fall' is greeted with more criticism than anyone else.
The thing is, if you can do a better job why aren't you?

 

[Tez3]

Aye, I'll try and be there - it is only the next town over. I quite often see what we have taken to calling the Gurkha Taxi's flying over where I work as they head for RAF Stafford .

Saw a pair of Apache's going over the other day - amazing sight.

You'd better hope Gurkhas aren't 'driving'! Great guys but the most appalling drivers lol!

 

[Makalakumu]

It's only a matter of time. No one can defend it and people like me are growing and taking action everyday. When the wheels fall off of the economy and these wars bankrupt the nation, there will be an explosion of discontent and anger as people ask how this all could happen. I (and others) will be there to tell them why.

It will end and I will be a part of ending it. What part will you take?

 

[Makalakumu]

Having never served yourself, WTF are you to say why a person puts their life on the line for their country? You have no clue.

What you really mean to say is that I have no right to say anything.

I stated what I would consider a valid reason to support the military and I stated that since it wasn't THAT I don't support it. You've got this whole thing twisted in your mind where people can't criticize the military, it's actions, or the people who choose to perform those actions...and you are only part of the problem that is going to drag down something that you obviously love and shred it in the muck.

If you are upset, I would suggest that it's not with me, it's what I'm saying and what it implies.

 

[Tez3]

It's only a matter of time. No one can defend it and people like me are growing and taking action everyday. When the wheels fall off of the economy and these wars bankrupt the nation, there will be an explosion of discontent and anger as people ask how this all could happen. I (and others) will be there to tell them why.

It will end and I will be a part of ending it. What part will you take?

Personally I've always fancied the part of Shakespeare's Portia. You might have to think about that one.


A matter of time before what? You seem to think we are all condoning something we aren't. Put the blame for the wars where blame lies, Bush senior went to war in Iraq, our idiot government followed him in, Bush junior wanted to emulate daddy so second war in Iraq, again our idiot government follows like a pet poodle.
The American government invades Afghanistan so our government with it's tongue firmly up Bush's fundament follows, therein lies the blame, on the politicians. Blame us all for voting them in if you like but of one thing you can be sure there's not one of us that doesn't want he war stopped and our toops come home safely. Don't assume we are all war mongers, even most soldiers aren't and don't assume you are the only one that is right and lastly don't you dare assume we condone atrocities committed by our troops or anyone for that matter. Your moral compass is no more correct than ours.

 

[Makalakumu]

You, however blame your own forces, all of them, for Fallujah. That's so blatently unfair, it amazes me. It also means that because of that unfairness the issue is clouded. Laying a blanket of blame over all the American Armed Forces hides those who are responsible and disrespects those that aren't.

I blame myself for it Tez3. I'm paying taxes for it. I'm sacrificing a portion of my livelihood to do that to people in Iraq. Sure, I can't just stop paying taxes. The government will turn it's guns on me and demand that I keep giving them money to commit war crimes. I don't have to live in this country though and when I lose all hope and realize that I can't stop it, that will be my decision.

Until then, I think I can change things for the better.

Now, Google Beyond Treason when you have some time. Check the video by the same name.

Also, realize that Fallujah is just one example. Look at Wikileaks and what was released. Look at how we ended up in these wars based on lies. Look at the big picture.

Would you truly counsel a young person to be a part of this? How much do you really want to be a part of it?

You have a choice.