Mango.man,
You know the old saying"
"Don't shoot the messenger"
But all we have is the messanger to shoot:shooter:
Universal Tae Kwon Do Brotherhood
- Thread starter MichiganTKD
- Start date
- Status
But all we have is the messanger to shoot:shooter:
kuntawguro
Master Black Belt
Funny that Traditional TKD doesn't give any of HIS personal information nor does mango. Something to hide maybe?
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G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assistant Administrator
MartialTalk and its staff are not in the business of endorsing or validating rank. Claims of rank made by practioners are theirs and theirs alone. MartialTalk does not make any warranty to the validity of such claims and does have an "anti" fraud busting policy.
This is the First Warning to all users to refrain from fraudbusting attempts effective immediately.
Please keep the conversation polite and respectful. If you see a problem, please use the RTM feature or Ignore feature. If you do not know how to use the RTM feature, please feel free to post a question in the Support forum or ask a staff member.
G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assistant Administrator
Through the year's Master Eugene Humesky (understand that he is a GrandMaster but I have known him for over around 24 years and he has always been Master Humesky to me) has done an incredible amount of good for many, many people. He has also sought to be the true embodiement of an honorable martial artist and gone to great length's to have credentials in many organizations and make friends with as many people as possible. He has sat on literally thousand's of people's tests and many testing boards outside of the UTB/UMAB as well. (Hapkido, Tang Soo Do and more) He is a walking encyclopedia of martial arts knowledge and a true pursuer of knowledge in the martial arts. One thing is for sure that Master Humesky is truly a unique individual and one of the best friends you could possibly ever have.
Right from his website you can see where UTB students get their rank from : http://www.utbtaekwondo.us/cert.html Nothing hidden and you can see whose signature will be on their certificates. He has always posited that to learn Tae Kwon Do one should train and receive ranking in both ITF and WTF and many of his Master Instructor's have done just that. (and yes they recieved their international certifcations even up to and including the seventh Dan's that he has promoted) Let me point out that Master Humesky has at 86 lived past many of his teacher's particularly Nam Suk Lee (who he was close to) and many other's.
His student's through the years have competed and won championships and trophies in almost every tournament they have gone to.
This is a man of unimpeachable credentials, a true pioneer in the martial arts especially in Tae Kwon Do. At 86 he is one of the last of the older Generation of Master's.
It truly is shameful that many of the younger Tae Kwon Do Master's are out to discredit people who paved the way for their advancement in a Korean Martial Art. Without these pioneers then their road would have been a much different course. Truly a shame and absolutely shameful.
By the way many of the older Master's are not showing up at all on the Kukkiwan website or with incorrect ranking.
Right from his website you can see where UTB students get their rank from : http://www.utbtaekwondo.us/cert.html Nothing hidden and you can see whose signature will be on their certificates. He has always posited that to learn Tae Kwon Do one should train and receive ranking in both ITF and WTF and many of his Master Instructor's have done just that. (and yes they recieved their international certifcations even up to and including the seventh Dan's that he has promoted) Let me point out that Master Humesky has at 86 lived past many of his teacher's particularly Nam Suk Lee (who he was close to) and many other's.
His student's through the years have competed and won championships and trophies in almost every tournament they have gone to.
This is a man of unimpeachable credentials, a true pioneer in the martial arts especially in Tae Kwon Do. At 86 he is one of the last of the older Generation of Master's.
It truly is shameful that many of the younger Tae Kwon Do Master's are out to discredit people who paved the way for their advancement in a Korean Martial Art. Without these pioneers then their road would have been a much different course. Truly a shame and absolutely shameful.
By the way many of the older Master's are not showing up at all on the Kukkiwan website or with incorrect ranking.
Tell me what you want to know about me and I will tell you. As long as you are not asking for my SSN, bank account numbers, etc.
Ok here is my final thought about this matter, he is an honorary 9th appointed by GM Uhm and that is the facts it is still a rank for all he have contributed to the Art of TKD. Over the years he has done mor efor the Art then almost all of us posting about him, if and when we can say we have done what he has then we can have an augrument about who is right or who is wrong until then respect him for his knowledge and then the rank, we all agree knowledge is more important than any rank anyway so for that alone he needs to have our respect.
Thank you all
Terry
Thank you all
Terry
TraditionalTKD
Blue Belt
Terry,
No disrespect and I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I would seriously doubt the honorary 9th Dan thing. As far as I know, the Kukkiwon does not give honorary 9th Dans. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Humesky has a 5th Dan from the Kukkiwon that was issued in 1977. And that's based on going directly to the KKW website-it's verifiable. Anything else is open for debate and question. No Instructor, mine included, should be afraid to have their credentials examined or be offended if their background is called into question. As my GM has said, don't take my word for it. Instructors can lie, credentials can be made up, certificates can be faked. That's one of the reasons why the Kukkiwon exists-so that if someone claims 9th Dan, honorary or otherwise, it can be verified through the body they claim issued it. Keep them honest.
And like Mango.man, I will answer any questions people have about my credentials except personal info. I have nothing to hide. I don't have ten honorary 10th Dans like Mr. Humesky, but I do okay.
No disrespect and I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I would seriously doubt the honorary 9th Dan thing. As far as I know, the Kukkiwon does not give honorary 9th Dans. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Humesky has a 5th Dan from the Kukkiwon that was issued in 1977. And that's based on going directly to the KKW website-it's verifiable. Anything else is open for debate and question. No Instructor, mine included, should be afraid to have their credentials examined or be offended if their background is called into question. As my GM has said, don't take my word for it. Instructors can lie, credentials can be made up, certificates can be faked. That's one of the reasons why the Kukkiwon exists-so that if someone claims 9th Dan, honorary or otherwise, it can be verified through the body they claim issued it. Keep them honest.
And like Mango.man, I will answer any questions people have about my credentials except personal info. I have nothing to hide. I don't have ten honorary 10th Dans like Mr. Humesky, but I do okay.
ATTENTION ALL USERS - SECOND WARNING:
MartialTalk and its staff are not in the business of endorsing or validating rank. Claims of rank made by practioners are theirs and theirs alone. MartialTalk does not make any warranty to the validity of such claims and does have an "anti" fraud busting policy.
This is the Second Warning to all users to refrain from fraudbusting attempts effective immediately.
Please keep the conversation polite and respectful. If you see a problem, please use the RTM feature or Ignore feature. If you do not know how to use the RTM feature, please feel free to post a question in the Support forum or ask a staff member.
G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assistant Administrator
MartialTalk and its staff are not in the business of endorsing or validating rank. Claims of rank made by practioners are theirs and theirs alone. MartialTalk does not make any warranty to the validity of such claims and does have an "anti" fraud busting policy.
This is the Second Warning to all users to refrain from fraudbusting attempts effective immediately.
Please keep the conversation polite and respectful. If you see a problem, please use the RTM feature or Ignore feature. If you do not know how to use the RTM feature, please feel free to post a question in the Support forum or ask a staff member.
G Ketchmark / shesulsa
MT Assistant Administrator
TraditionalTKD
Blue Belt
Point taken. This discussion is closed.
karateboy1023
White Belt
Fame, fortune, and accomplishments tends to attract social wanna-bees who covet the recognition that they cant earn for themselves. What famous actor, musician, world leader, etc. hasnt been attacked by false accusations and vicious rumors in weak attempts to knock them down? How often is the A+ student loathed by less successful classmates?
Its a shame that "TraditionalTKD" (who to me appears to me to be the same "MichiganTKD" that was banned from this fine web forum for starting all this whole unjustified mud slinging) either has a hidden agenda or just a lot of idle time that he cant find something more productive to do.
I, on the other hand, am too busy to following this trivial nonsense and I refuse to get sucked in to any infantile argument beyond this solitary posting. The only reason for logging on and writing this response is to defend a great man who deserves respect for his lifetime dedication to martial arts. Regardless of what credentials you believe or disbelieve this man to have, Grandmaster Humesky deserves credit for his accomplishments and how he has touched the lives of countless people. Few "masters" in the history of martial arts have so unselfishly given of themselves as he has done in his 86 years on this planet. In my response, I shall present facts that readers can research to uncover the truth. You can then draw your own conclusion and decide whether or not you wish to give an ounce of credit to rumors started under the disguise of anonymity.
First and forthright, Grandmaster Eugene A. Humesky has openly listed on his website all of his credentials for the full scrutiny of any naysayers. How many "grandmasters" do you know even have such credentials, let alone freely volunteer the facts as proof to the world? Visit
http://www.utbtaekwondo.us/grandmaster_eugene_a_humesky_credentials.html.
On this page he lists SPECIFIC certificate numbers and dates which can and should be checked directly with any of the institutions from which they were issued. Are there a lot of awards? Yes, its to say the least "unbelievable"! But what do you expect from a man who started his training in 1938 and received his first Black Belt in 1959?
Are there organizations listed in his credentials that have questionable legitimacy? Most likely. He was recognized by the entire spectrum of martial arts organizations from the world-wide federations ( I.T.F ,W.T.F, Chang Moo Kwan) to small groups of distinguished (and sometimes not-so-famous) martial artists who banned together to start new organizations. So, some of these small organizations are not known world-wide. Perhaps they are just forming and slowly gaining membership and recognition. Perhaps these organizations are poorly managed and will never grow to large federations, or, they have they have no desire to acquire such proportions (we all know there exists great martial artists in the world who dont have great business minds or no desire to go big). Maybe some of these groups are now defunct and thats why the younger martial artists dont know them. (Sadly, there are some young people alive today who dont know that Paul McCartney belonged to a defunct group call the Beatles.) Does it really matter?!!! All organizations had humble beginnings somewhere in time. ALL styles and organizations were founded by some individual or small group of people. Whos to say what IS and IS NOT a legitimate style or organization? The only way to "legitimatize" anything is to certify it by other individuals and organizations. But, where did those individuals and organizations get their credentials? Its a vicious cycle!
Through all this rhetoric, one fact stands clear. . . whether or not all his credentials are backed by large "legitimate" organizations, truly few martial artists in the world have been so well recognized by so many people and organizations who were willing to put their names in support of him with their certificates, plaques, titles and other such rewards!
So, you say you tried to look him up on the WTF website? Myself and a few friends have also tried and couldnt get the site to work. TraditionalTKD, Please tell us your name and birth date so we can enter it to verify if the site does indeed really work as you claim it does for your name. So far I havent been able to retrieve any information for any of the famous masters and verifiable KukKiWon Black Belts that I know. In fact, most of the time I couldnt even get the site to work (i.e. selecting the nationality despite disabling the pop-up blocker ). Why dont you just call or write to the WTF personally? What about the ITF too, you didnt even mention them? Perhaps you should do more homework rather than to base all your assumptions on one single source that may not be functioning properly.
Even better, anyone who doubts Grandmaster Humeskys credentials is not only challenged, but openly INVITED to call him or visit his house in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Within the first five minutes you will be assured of the truth behind his myriad martial arts awards and experiences that earned them. His house is the "Planet Hollywood" of martial arts! But, you may claim that certificates can be forged. Well, Im telling you that anyone who sees his house would agree that one would have to be a full time counterfeiter for 20 years or pay out $100,000 to a team a artists to produce the quantity of certificates, awards, photos and other martial arts paraphernalia in his possession! The best part is that at 86 years old, hes not very computer literate. So, this feat would be that much more phenomenal if you follow the theory that he must have drawn all the certificates by hand! And, I couldnt even imagine how he faked his 50+ photo albums that are packed with literally thousands of photos involving him, his students, and his personal instructors.
Ive known Grandmaster Humesky for over 25 years. In this time Ive seen his collection of awards grow from a single wall in his foyer to the point that its overtaken half his house like a pandemic virus. I was in attendance when he was presented many of these awards so I know they are real. But, dont believe me just because I said so. Instead, call him, visit him, see for yourself. I just confirmed with him before composing this response and he gave explicit permission to post his phone number with this invitation to everyone. (734-971-7040)
When you visit the man, you will find a humble and somewhat frail old man with a big heart and a coarsely accented speech. He will gladly welcome in anyone who shares his love for martial arts and then talk their ears off. I have never known him to turn down the request train anyone who shows good intentions. What you will not find is a man who needs to "defend himself" or his credentials. "A TRUE MASTER NEVER NEEDS TO PROVE ANYTHING" is one of his teachings. Besides, its my personal opinion that he shouldnt have to waste his time stooping to defend himself against the attacks of a single persons accusations when thousands of people in the world have already recognized him.
As a final point, the fact that Grandmaster Humesky has numerous honorary degrees should not discredit him nor his accomplishments in any way. Tell me what famous and accomplished actor/musician/author hasnt been bestowed such honors? At last count I heard Bill Cosby had accumulated 100-120 such titles. (Google "Bill Cosby Honorary Degrees" and you will find 60,000+ references to these.) Is Mr. Cosby a fake too? Do these honorary degrees discredit his accomplishments as an comedian, actor, musician, or philanthropist?
What I have presented are the facts as I see them. Perhaps my perspective is distorted through my personal friendship. Perhaps what I have said is complete rubbish. All I suggest is that anyone who has doubt should do some detailed investigation from multiple reliable sources. Anyone who can add to my testimony is encouraged to do so now as I am much to busy to follow this topic whereever it may be going. I have exhausted all I have to say and I will not be commenting further. Good luck to all of you in discovering the truth!
I am man enough to sign this with my real name:
BRADLEY K. HINTZ, 6th Dan US-ITF.
Go ahead and research my credentials too and post whatever you want because I really dont care what any one has to say about me. I know who I am and thats all that matters to me and anyone who knows me.
P.S. If youre wondering about the long break in time between starting martial arts in 1939 and his first Black Belt in 1959, ask him personally. He will gladly recount hours of stories regarding World War II, his escape from a German concentration camp which robbed the life of his entire family, and the struggles of immigrating to the United States without a dollar in his pocket. The man is a living history book of not only of martial arts, but also European and American post-war history. RESPECT HIM AS YOU SHOULD RESPECT ALL WHO HAVE MADE MARTIAL ARTS AND OUR COUNTRY GREAT!
Its a shame that "TraditionalTKD" (who to me appears to me to be the same "MichiganTKD" that was banned from this fine web forum for starting all this whole unjustified mud slinging) either has a hidden agenda or just a lot of idle time that he cant find something more productive to do.
I, on the other hand, am too busy to following this trivial nonsense and I refuse to get sucked in to any infantile argument beyond this solitary posting. The only reason for logging on and writing this response is to defend a great man who deserves respect for his lifetime dedication to martial arts. Regardless of what credentials you believe or disbelieve this man to have, Grandmaster Humesky deserves credit for his accomplishments and how he has touched the lives of countless people. Few "masters" in the history of martial arts have so unselfishly given of themselves as he has done in his 86 years on this planet. In my response, I shall present facts that readers can research to uncover the truth. You can then draw your own conclusion and decide whether or not you wish to give an ounce of credit to rumors started under the disguise of anonymity.
First and forthright, Grandmaster Eugene A. Humesky has openly listed on his website all of his credentials for the full scrutiny of any naysayers. How many "grandmasters" do you know even have such credentials, let alone freely volunteer the facts as proof to the world? Visit
http://www.utbtaekwondo.us/grandmaster_eugene_a_humesky_credentials.html.
On this page he lists SPECIFIC certificate numbers and dates which can and should be checked directly with any of the institutions from which they were issued. Are there a lot of awards? Yes, its to say the least "unbelievable"! But what do you expect from a man who started his training in 1938 and received his first Black Belt in 1959?
Are there organizations listed in his credentials that have questionable legitimacy? Most likely. He was recognized by the entire spectrum of martial arts organizations from the world-wide federations ( I.T.F ,W.T.F, Chang Moo Kwan) to small groups of distinguished (and sometimes not-so-famous) martial artists who banned together to start new organizations. So, some of these small organizations are not known world-wide. Perhaps they are just forming and slowly gaining membership and recognition. Perhaps these organizations are poorly managed and will never grow to large federations, or, they have they have no desire to acquire such proportions (we all know there exists great martial artists in the world who dont have great business minds or no desire to go big). Maybe some of these groups are now defunct and thats why the younger martial artists dont know them. (Sadly, there are some young people alive today who dont know that Paul McCartney belonged to a defunct group call the Beatles.) Does it really matter?!!! All organizations had humble beginnings somewhere in time. ALL styles and organizations were founded by some individual or small group of people. Whos to say what IS and IS NOT a legitimate style or organization? The only way to "legitimatize" anything is to certify it by other individuals and organizations. But, where did those individuals and organizations get their credentials? Its a vicious cycle!
Through all this rhetoric, one fact stands clear. . . whether or not all his credentials are backed by large "legitimate" organizations, truly few martial artists in the world have been so well recognized by so many people and organizations who were willing to put their names in support of him with their certificates, plaques, titles and other such rewards!
So, you say you tried to look him up on the WTF website? Myself and a few friends have also tried and couldnt get the site to work. TraditionalTKD, Please tell us your name and birth date so we can enter it to verify if the site does indeed really work as you claim it does for your name. So far I havent been able to retrieve any information for any of the famous masters and verifiable KukKiWon Black Belts that I know. In fact, most of the time I couldnt even get the site to work (i.e. selecting the nationality despite disabling the pop-up blocker ). Why dont you just call or write to the WTF personally? What about the ITF too, you didnt even mention them? Perhaps you should do more homework rather than to base all your assumptions on one single source that may not be functioning properly.
Even better, anyone who doubts Grandmaster Humeskys credentials is not only challenged, but openly INVITED to call him or visit his house in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Within the first five minutes you will be assured of the truth behind his myriad martial arts awards and experiences that earned them. His house is the "Planet Hollywood" of martial arts! But, you may claim that certificates can be forged. Well, Im telling you that anyone who sees his house would agree that one would have to be a full time counterfeiter for 20 years or pay out $100,000 to a team a artists to produce the quantity of certificates, awards, photos and other martial arts paraphernalia in his possession! The best part is that at 86 years old, hes not very computer literate. So, this feat would be that much more phenomenal if you follow the theory that he must have drawn all the certificates by hand! And, I couldnt even imagine how he faked his 50+ photo albums that are packed with literally thousands of photos involving him, his students, and his personal instructors.
Ive known Grandmaster Humesky for over 25 years. In this time Ive seen his collection of awards grow from a single wall in his foyer to the point that its overtaken half his house like a pandemic virus. I was in attendance when he was presented many of these awards so I know they are real. But, dont believe me just because I said so. Instead, call him, visit him, see for yourself. I just confirmed with him before composing this response and he gave explicit permission to post his phone number with this invitation to everyone. (734-971-7040)
When you visit the man, you will find a humble and somewhat frail old man with a big heart and a coarsely accented speech. He will gladly welcome in anyone who shares his love for martial arts and then talk their ears off. I have never known him to turn down the request train anyone who shows good intentions. What you will not find is a man who needs to "defend himself" or his credentials. "A TRUE MASTER NEVER NEEDS TO PROVE ANYTHING" is one of his teachings. Besides, its my personal opinion that he shouldnt have to waste his time stooping to defend himself against the attacks of a single persons accusations when thousands of people in the world have already recognized him.
As a final point, the fact that Grandmaster Humesky has numerous honorary degrees should not discredit him nor his accomplishments in any way. Tell me what famous and accomplished actor/musician/author hasnt been bestowed such honors? At last count I heard Bill Cosby had accumulated 100-120 such titles. (Google "Bill Cosby Honorary Degrees" and you will find 60,000+ references to these.) Is Mr. Cosby a fake too? Do these honorary degrees discredit his accomplishments as an comedian, actor, musician, or philanthropist?
What I have presented are the facts as I see them. Perhaps my perspective is distorted through my personal friendship. Perhaps what I have said is complete rubbish. All I suggest is that anyone who has doubt should do some detailed investigation from multiple reliable sources. Anyone who can add to my testimony is encouraged to do so now as I am much to busy to follow this topic whereever it may be going. I have exhausted all I have to say and I will not be commenting further. Good luck to all of you in discovering the truth!
I am man enough to sign this with my real name:
BRADLEY K. HINTZ, 6th Dan US-ITF.
Go ahead and research my credentials too and post whatever you want because I really dont care what any one has to say about me. I know who I am and thats all that matters to me and anyone who knows me.
P.S. If youre wondering about the long break in time between starting martial arts in 1939 and his first Black Belt in 1959, ask him personally. He will gladly recount hours of stories regarding World War II, his escape from a German concentration camp which robbed the life of his entire family, and the struggles of immigrating to the United States without a dollar in his pocket. The man is a living history book of not only of martial arts, but also European and American post-war history. RESPECT HIM AS YOU SHOULD RESPECT ALL WHO HAVE MADE MARTIAL ARTS AND OUR COUNTRY GREAT!
TraditionalTKD
Blue Belt
Bradley,
I did punch in my own name and did everything I was supposed to. I received a confirmation of Kukkiwon 5th Dan. If you would like, I can PM you with the info and you can look it up on the KKW website. Just refrain from attacking me personally.
Anyway, you accuse me of having an agenda. Truly I have none, just the truth. You seem to have one as well, apparently to defend at all costs. You have your opinion, I have mine. We can leave it at that.
I did punch in my own name and did everything I was supposed to. I received a confirmation of Kukkiwon 5th Dan. If you would like, I can PM you with the info and you can look it up on the KKW website. Just refrain from attacking me personally.
Anyway, you accuse me of having an agenda. Truly I have none, just the truth. You seem to have one as well, apparently to defend at all costs. You have your opinion, I have mine. We can leave it at that.
I am locking this thread until it is reviewed
- Status
