universal pattern

[Robbo]

If kenpo is to be constantly evolving, why would, adding something to the program signifcantly change things?

Because nobody views evolution in the same manner. Some people would welcome a groundfighting curriculum to EPAK. Others would say no we are a striking art primarily and we want to concentrate on what Mr. Parker left us.

The other HUGE thing is, if you add, how do you share? If I or you came up with a ground fighting curriculum to match the standard SD techs how would you propagate it throughout the Kenpo brotherhood? Would you want to? Or would you just do your own thing and eventually be so far from the EPAK curriculum that the majority would see you as a offshoot and label you as such.

Or...are we all offshoots of EPAK now that Mr. Parker is gone and the art has continued to evolve. How can anybody claim to teach EPAK anymore?

All this philisophical thought is probably just a result of not training for a while. When you have to deal with a full speed, full power technique line it tends to ground you and make you think of more immediate matters.

Just some thoughts,
Rob

P.S. Thanks to GD7 for his replys, this post was written after fully reading yours. I did not post this again becuase I didn't understand what you said, I'm just trying to Get Mr. Broad's input on the thread.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Robbo



Because nobody views evolution in the same manner. Some people would welcome a groundfighting curriculum to EPAK. Others would say no we are a striking art primarily and we want to concentrate on what Mr. Parker left us.

The other HUGE thing is, if you add, how do you share? If I or you came up with a ground fighting curriculum to match the standard SD techs how would you propagate it throughout the Kenpo brotherhood? Would you want to? Or would you just do your own thing and eventually be so far from the EPAK curriculum that the majority would see you as a offshoot and label you as such.

Or...are we all offshoots of EPAK now that Mr. Parker is gone and the art has continued to evolve. How can anybody claim to teach EPAK anymore?

All this philisophical thought is probably just a result of not training for a while. When you have to deal with a full speed, full power technique line it tends to ground you and make you think of more immediate matters.

Just some thoughts,
Rob

P.S. Thanks to GD7 for his replys, this post was written after fully reading yours. I did not post this again becuase I didn't understand what you said, I'm just trying to Get Mr. Broad's input on the thread.

Ya know if you actually stopped beating your head against the wall long enough you might realize the gateway to the other side is just to the right. Don't forget to stop and ask for the best guide they have at the guard shack.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Robbo



Or...are we all offshoots of EPAK now that Mr. Parker is gone and the art has continued to evolve. How can anybody claim to teach EPAK anymore?

I think that says it all. We all have our own little flavor, that is the Way SGM Parker wanted it. Each person has their own ideas of what is important for the system. That is all fine as long as the follow the principles of EPAK then so be it.

I believe in the full sharing of knowledge. So if a person has something good to be offered to the curriculum then please share. I believe we can all learn from eachother.

I also believe there are many, many lesons in the Universal Pattern than become user specific as you progress through the system.

 

[Robbo]

Ya know if you actually stopped beating your head against the wall long enough you might realize the gateway to the other side is just to the right. Don't forget to stop and ask for the best guide they have at the guard shack.

This really doesn't help me out too much rainman. Maybe you could delve a little deeper.

Rob

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Robbo



This really doesn't help me out too much rainman. Maybe you could delve a little deeper.

Rob

Did you follow through with the exercise I gave to you? That is how I started years ago with the U-P. If you are serious get off your butt and do your homework and I will be glad to supply points to further investigate from the feedback you supply to me.

 

[AvPKenpo]

In our curriculum we are just now adding ground fighting. In fact we are having a tournament at our school end of this month. (Its not a big shindig, just a small tourney for fun.) We are inviting all local schools, and non local, for those that are close enough to want to participate. I will also have one of my co-workers tape the event.

Michael

 

[Nightingale]

my instructor doesn't really use the universal pattern. It isn't visible anywhere in the studio and he never talks about it. I think about it sometime, and have used parts of it laid out in masking tape on the floor to check my stances (I wasn't even thinking about the pattern when I laid out the tape, but then discovered it was the vertical, horizontal, and diagonal lines in the pattern) When someone posted this question, I was going "oh. good. I wanted to ask this, but I didn't want to look stupid because everyone else seems to know the answer to this."

 

[Robbo]

Okay here is one I don't think I put forth very well. Put the 3d image on top of the flat image so they sit like a cup and saucer- stand in the center of both in a natural stance spine in the direct center of both. Extend your hand and extend your feet- look around see what you find out about range which leads to...

Beside the obvious patterns and limits of motion that various parts of your body can follow I don't see what you are getting at.

Rob

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



Holographic displays are not that far away Jeff. In a few short years we might be able to put that very image up and move around in it for our size.


Have a great kenpo day

Clyde

How about get one that revolves around for us. That and a disco ball and we can have "Universal Pattern Disco training".

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Robbo



Beside the obvious patterns and limits of motion that various parts of your body can follow I don't see what you are getting at.

Rob

Range- the 3rd range to the fourth range. Each person is incased in the sphere whether they know how to use it or not. Once specific details of the U-P are learned it provides the (theory first) of ideal angles in which to strike, redirect and deflect simultaneously, or in part... depends on what and how a person is A) attacked B) responds with the optimum line for zone cancellation with their responce.

Motion is a constituent of inertia not so much the up. Movement (because it is more particular) would be a more accurate or precise descriptive term.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Motion is a constituent of inertia not so much the up.

Inertia is a value given to an object, whether it's in motion or not. It's a term used to describe "THE" motion of an object, and it's inclination to maintain it's state of being in a relative coordinate system. This being the case, I don't quite see how motion is a "constituent of inertia." Maybe it's all just semantics, but I didn't go through years of physics courses to listen to others garble through theory.

Movement (because it is more particular) would be a more accurate or precise descriptive term.

More precise at describing what? Maybe you could enlighten us, as to the "BIG" theory your trying to explain. The U.P. is good at describing the infinite amount of motion, but human physiology (with its finite limit) determines the amount of power, speed, structure, and economy we can get within a specific movement.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo



More precise at describing what? Maybe you could enlighten us, as to the "BIG" theory your trying to explain. The U.P. is good at describing the infinite amount of motion, but human physiology (with its finite limit) determines the amount of power, speed, structure, and economy we can get within a specific movement.

motion- an act process or instance of changing place
movement- change of place, position or posture

Inertia is a value given to an object, whether it's in motion or not. It's a term used to describe "THE" motion of an object, and it's inclination to maintain it's state of being in a relative coordinate system. This being the case, I don't quite see how motion is a "constituent of inertia." Maybe it's all just semantics, but I didn't go through years of physics courses to
listen to others garble through theory.

Intertia is a simple universal law- once in motion stay in motion until acted upon by an outside force. Once at rest stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force. You are not old enough to have gone through years of anything- when does the fall semester start "johnny"

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

First off I've been around long enough to know that your not describing the physics correctly.

Motion is a constituent of inertia

This doesn't make sense. Inertia is an intrinsic quality of mass.

Second, what have I said that's incorrect? You come on to a forum trying to be vague as if you have some special secret about kenpo that people should grovle to you for. If your interested in the free exchange of ideas then why don't you be a little more specific. Rambling on about things you don't understand and then telling people their lazy and need to get off their butts if they want your help; I mean really, who do you think you are? You may sound intelligent to people who don't know any better, but it sounds to me like you picked up one of Feynman's books on physics, read about half of it and then decided to jump on the forum. I've been around enough to know that people try to make things sound more secretive, and scientific than they really need to be. How hard is it to say that if I hit you here and do it like this, then it will hurt more than if I did it some other way or in some other place. So far you haven't talked about anything relating to the universal pattern that most orange belts haven't figured out by simply working on their sparring (i.e. ranges). I know that the universal pattern can be extremely useful in describing different patterns of motion, but so far you've done nothing but ramble esoterically about ranges, inertia, and the like. Maybe you would care to enlighten us all with your stunning insight. I'm willing to bet that there is alot of good information in the UP, I just don't think you have it, but you could try and prove me wrong.

Frankly I could care less what you think about me, I'm not your buddy, nor would I care to be. Someone mentions something about groundfighting and you have to get all huffy. I can't think of one post where I haven't asked a question that I was honestly interested in hearing the answer to, it's called learning. You on the other hand appear to have started this thread for some type of ego gratification. You tout your knowledge and then remain purposely vague in replies. How about this, I have the secret to life, it can be found in the infinite possible strands of DNA, why don't you go study that for a while and when you show enough effort I will grace you with my knowledge. Give me a break.

 

[Seig]

love it when things stay so friendly? Come on guys, there is no reason for this.:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Kenpo Yahoo

First off I've been around long enough to know that your not describing the physics correctly.


This doesn't make sense. Inertia is an intrinsic quality of mass.

Second, what have I said that's incorrect? You come on to a forum trying to be vague as if you have some special secret about kenpo that people should grovle to you for. If your interested in the free exchange of ideas then why don't you be a little more specific. Rambling on about things you don't understand and then telling people their lazy and need to get off their butts if they want your help; I mean really, who do you think you are? You may sound intelligent to people who don't know any better, but it sounds to me like you picked up one of Feynman's books on physics, read about half of it and then decided to jump on the forum. I've been around enough to know that people try to make things sound more secretive, and scientific than they really need to be. How hard is it to say that if I hit you here and do it like this, then it will hurt more than if I did it some other way or in some other place. So far you haven't talked about anything relating to the universal pattern that most orange belts haven't figured out by simply working on their sparring (i.e. ranges). I know that the universal pattern can be extremely useful in describing different patterns of motion, but so far you've done nothing but ramble esoterically about ranges, inertia, and the like. Maybe you would care to enlighten us all with your stunning insight. I'm willing to bet that there is alot of good information in the UP, I just don't think you have it, but you could try and prove me wrong.

Frankly I could care less what you think about me, I'm not your buddy, nor would I care to be. Someone mentions something about groundfighting and you have to get all huffy. I can't think of one post where I haven't asked a question that I was honestly interested in hearing the answer to, it's called learning. You on the other hand appear to have started this thread for some type of ego gratification. You tout your knowledge and then remain purposely vague in replies. How about this, I have the secret to life, it can be found in the infinite possible strands of DNA, why don't you go study that for a while and when you show enough effort I will grace you with my knowledge. Give me a break.

I have never seen anyone act so ignorant and then brag about it publicly. Most guys are probably laughing at your inability to learn and remain open. You have been saying for months AK has no groundfighting. Okay believe what you want. For you it doesn't. The UP is nothing more than "patterns of motion" whatever that is. With statements like "I know what I know" you fail to understand that you tell everyone else what you don't have.

"How hard is it to say if I hit you here and do it like this- this will hurt." Makes sense to me. Where is here? Nevermind. If you already knew how to do that correctly it would have been done.

Here was the telltale sign- that ridiculous graft to mace of aggression. How about sword of destruction for a graft. So much for you understanding the fourth range. But oh I thought orange belts understood that... and got it from sparring. So then I take it you are a yellow belt since you don't know your own prescribed orange material.

love it when things stay so friendly? Come on guys, there is no reason for this.

Thanx for your concern Seig- However this person I do not like.
I was going to add to the applied kenpo thread with the up material but I think I have been pretty well talked out of it.

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Please, keep the discussion polite and respectful.

-Kirk
-MT Moderator-

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Kirk

Please, keep the discussion polite and respectful.

-Kirk
-MT Moderator-

Oh yeah, with Homer Simpsons pic there, and you want us to believe that?:rofl:

You'd be better off with Mr. Burns at the helm.:rofl:

 

[Mace]

Here was the telltale sign- that ridiculous graft to mace of aggression. How about sword of destruction for a graft. So much for you understanding the fourth range. But oh I thought orange belts understood that

Rainmain,
Could you please clarify this statement for me, I'm a little confused. When I teach my yellow belts the tech mace of aggresion and they hit the outward elbow to the sternum, their partner/opponent usually backs up a step or two. So how would we still be in the 4th range? The graft into sword of destruction reminds me somewhat of the motion found with the extention to bow of compulsion, a little rearranged of course if you do the kick as written in SD. Am I misunderstanding the application of Mace of Agression, the range of the opponent after the outward elbow, or your take on the graft?
Respectfully,
Mace

 

[Robbo]

I was going to add to the applied kenpo thread with the up material but I think I have been pretty well talked out of it.

1) There's more than one person on this board.

2) Heated discussions show passion for the art. If you can't show passion then you probably don't love what you do. Seems like you guys both have a view and are passionate about it. Maybe the views could be explained better but it's not good if one person's views prevent you from posting just because you got into a argument over what term to use.

Rob

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

Quoted by Rainman
Here was the telltale sign- that ridiculous graft to mace of aggression. How about sword of destruction for a graft. So much for you understanding the fourth range. But oh I thought orange belts understood that... and got it from sparring. So then I take it you are a yellow belt since you don't know your own prescribed orange material.

I'm a little confused. When I teach my yellow belts the tech mace of aggresion and they hit the outward elbow to the sternum, their partner/opponent usually backs up a step or two. So how would we still be in the 4th range?

If you let go of the attackers arm I don't think you would, but I'm just a yellow belt :shrug:

Well you got me. I actually did write Sword of destruction, meaning Sword and Hammer. All you have to do to set up sword and hammer is to release your opponent with your left hand. The outward elbow would move your opponent back creating the required "RANGE" for you to graft sword and hammer. Geez I wrote something down wrong. However, I did ask for opinions on my post (i.e. I wanted feedback), but if you figured that there was something wrong why didn't you mention it then? Also while it may not be the most economical use of motion, you could actually do this to Graft SWORD OF DESTRUCTION:

1) Do the outward elbow found in mace of aggression.
2) Execute a right backknuckle to the side of his face followed by a left inward palm heel (if need be, move the back leg up before the left palm heel... this will help you set up for the kick),
3) kick the groin or inner thigh of his right leg to start spinning him back the other way, and finish with the right inward chop to the neck.
#3 is the Sword of Destruction part, in case you were wondering.

Although it requires a little more thought and a little more setup, I think it could be done. What do you think, Honestly ( I really am looking for feedback). Eventhough this wasn't what I meant to do originally, I think you could still possibly execute it. I, personally, would probably stick to Sword and Hammer because it requires the least amount of setup to cause the most amount of damage.

Rainman, thank you for bringing that to my attention. Sorry about the slip-up on the technique name.