Understanding Wing Chun's Centre Line

[Flying Crane]

This is why in CMA, the staff training is always before the spear training.

I don’t think it needs to be.

The spear is a foot soldier’s weapon. It was easy and quick to train (relatively speaking). It was cheap to make, and easy to arm a lot of guys with it. Conscripts were brought in and given a spear, then drilled in its use. I do not believe they were taught staff first, if they were meant to fill the ranks of spearmen.

 

[drop bear]

Agreed, and yet sometimes the simplest things can be the hardest to get across.

Especially for me who quite often wants to be off center.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Circular punches beach straight punches when the circular path interrupts the linear path.

 

[wckf92]

@Jaz Sorry your thread got hijacked. It only took 2 pages for us to drift from WC's centerline to spears and staffs.

 

[JowGaWolf]

@Jaz Sorry your thread got hijacked. It only took 2 pages for us to drift from WC's centerline to spears and staffs.

Next time start with spears so we'll end up with WC center line.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Circular punches beach straight punches when the circular path interrupts the linear path.

Is most Wing Chun trapping linear or circular?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

@Jaz Sorry your thread got hijacked. It only took 2 pages for us to drift from WC's centerline to spears and staffs.

You may choose the spear as your weapon. But you don't know what weapon that your opponent may use.

When you try to use your spear to stab a hole through your opponent's chest, your opponent also tries to use his Guan Dao to cut your head off. Who will win?

Through ancient history, we can see sometime spear won against Guan Dao. Other time we see Guan Dao won against spear. When you train spear, do you also train how to deal with your opponent's Guan Dao (or the other way around)?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Simple, you move.

Dodging will work. But should there be other options?

 

[wckf92]

You may choose the spear as your weapon. But you don't know what weapon that your opponent may use.

When you try to use your spear to stab a hole through your opponent's chest, your opponent also tries to use his Guan Dao to cut your head off. Who will win?

Through ancient history, we can see sometime spear won against Guan Dao. Other time we see Guan Dao won against spear. When you train spear, do you also train how to deal with your opponent's Guan Dao (or the other way around)?

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You completely missed the point dude. If you want to discuss spear vs kwan dao then start your own thread instead of derailing this one.

 

[wckf92]

Dodging will work. But should there be other options?

I stated "move" because in your example you said the other guy moved. Just pointing out that you attempted to create a scenario by saying Person A could move out of the way yet Person B should just stand there.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You completely missed the point dude. If you want to discuss spear vs kwan dao then start your own thread instead of derailing this one.

Instead of discussing "spear vs. Guan Dao", will it make you to feel better if we discuss "straight punch vs. circular punch"?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I stated "move" because in your example you said the other guy moved. Just pointing out that you attempted to create a scenario by saying Person A could move out of the way yet Person B should just stand there.

This is why I use the spear vs. Guan Dao example. You can use Guan Dao to block spear. You don't always need to dodge.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You may choose the spear as your weapon. But you don't know what weapon that your opponent may use.

Sure you do. Unless they're using a handgun, there's not a lot in the way of concealable weapons that would be a good choice against a spear.

When you try to use your spear to stab a hole through your opponent's chest, your opponent also tries to use his Guan Dao to cut your head off. Who will win?

I will. Or they will. Or we both will. Or neither.

Through ancient history, we can see sometime spear won against Guan Dao. Other time we see Guan Dao won against spear. When you train spear, do you also train how to deal with your opponent's Guan Dao (or the other way around)?

When you train block, parry, trap, evade, riposte, etc, it doesn't really matter if they're trying to poke you with a spear, a sword, or their index finger.

 

[wckf92]

This is why I use the spear vs. Guan Dao example. You can use Guan Dao to block spear. You don't always need to dodge.

Hard to comment because I don't know anything about spear or Guan Dao. But WC (and WC pole) contain linear and non-linear motions. So in theory I am agreeing with you and always have agreed with you on this point you bring up every so often about linear vs non-linear.
Straight can defeat curved, and curved can defeat straight.
In your clip/gif...the spear dude could use straight to defeat Gaun Dao guy as Guan Dao guy is pulling his weapon back.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you train block, parry, trap, evade, riposte, etc, it doesn't really matter if they're trying to poke you with a spear, a sword, or their index finger.

All I'm trying to say is the WC centerline principle should include "linear vs non-linear".

 

[wckf92]

All I'm trying to say is the WC centerline principle should include "linear vs non-linear".

WC protects center both ways.
Linear: It protects center in this way by the entire system being focused on conditioning our behavior to "primarily" favor being on center, attacking on center, etc.
Non-linear: Life is not always as perfect as we'd like, same goes for fighting...so WC contains ideas that protect center if we are not there or need to return to center.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Hard to comment because I don't know anything about spear or Guan Dao. But WC (and WC pole) contain linear and non-linear motions. So in theory I am agreeing with you and always have agreed with you on this point you bring up every so often about linear vs non-linear.
Straight can defeat curved, and curved can defeat straight.
In your clip/gif...the spear dude could use straight to defeat Gaun Dao guy as Guan Dao guy is pulling his weapon back.

Thanks for agreeing with me on linear vs. non-linear.

In the past many years, I have spent almost all my training time in "linear vs non-linear". I had tested my strategy against many people (such as boxers). My test was simple, I would ask my opponent to throw

- 20 straight punches, I then try to use my circular punches to deal with it.
- 20 circular punches, I then try to use my straight punch to deal with it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Non-linear: Life is not always as perfect as we'd like, same goes for fighting...so WC contains ideas that protect center if we are not there or need to return to center.

One of Ip Men's students (Jeffery Law) told me that Ip Men once taught his students to use right Tan Shou to block a right hook punch. Does that violate the WC centerline principle in your opinion?

 

[wckf92]

One of Ip Men's students told me that Ip Men once taught his students to use right Fu Shou to block a right hook punch. Does that violate the WC centerline principle in your opinion?

If it protected my centerline, then no. But, that seems very strange to use a right fook sau vs right hook. I would never use that. Your (Yip Man's) choice would be chasing hands in my opinion.

 

[Martial D]

It depends on how large that your circular punch is. If you use small circle, your circular punch can be as fast as your straight punch.

This is why the spear uses small circle to defect opponent's spear attack.

The spear has only 3 techniques.

- small counter clockwise circle,
- small clockwise circle,
- stab.

If you think the straight line is always faster than the circle, the ancient spear fighting record showed that the spear small circle could deflect the straight line attack.

Sure. History also shows that punching punches out of the air pretty much never happens. And we have a much larger sample size.