Wing Chun's (Ving Tsun) concepts

[Changhfy]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to start another thread on the concepts of Wing Chun.

Ive had experience in Ip Man Ving Tsun, Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun and Chi Sim Weng Chun.

I appreciate everyones takes, and info. So thanks in advance.

Ill start out with some of the concepts trained in the Moy Yat system.


In Siu Nim Tau:

The basic concepts that we concentrate on are:

Deui Ying (concept of facing)
Within this concept we are attaining the use of limbs for offense and defense.
Learning proper focus
Economy of motion within this lies the 6 gate theory.

Jung Sin (center line theory)
within Jung Sin lies the vital targets.
effects the balance or center of gravity
this is how we utilize our body power with proper body mechanics
Sau Lau Jung Sin (occupy or intercept the centerline) this is where the concept of Jeet (intercept) comes into play.

Jik Sin (straight line)
We utilize the straight line theory because its the shortest distance between point a and point b. Its more efficient.
Hard to see (non telegraphic)

Yi Sau Waih Yat (two parts work as one)
two parts work as one is in reference toward both the limbs and body and also both of the hands to move in symmetry.
With this comes single and double hand techniques.

Dyun Kiu/Cheung Kiu (short bridge and long bridge)
short bridge uses shorter movement distance for example the one inch punch.
long bridge begins from the extended elbow.

Sei Muhn
Is the concept of covering the gates

Tai Wuhn Sau (hand replacement)
use what we call in hung fa yi the two line theory.

Yam Yeung (yin/yang)
never use hard force against hard force (the strongest will always win if you go hard against hard)
cooperation of energies (such as immovalbe elbow theory, wrist energy, etc...)

These are some of the concepts trained in Siu Nim Tau for the Ving Tsun Museum's curriculum.



take care,
Chang

 

[CuongNhuka]

You mentioned the 6 gates theory. As an outsider who does some Wing Chun (sorta, theres a story there), may I ask what the 6 gates theory is?

 

[Changhfy]

Hey CuongNhuka,

You must study Cuong Nhu huh?

Cuong Nhu is a prett good system.

Back on topic the 6 gate theory.

seperates the body in lines and boxes in what we call the sap ming dim (10 bright point)

These seperate into the high, middle and low gate.

Following with the reference points of tan jong, yan jong and dan tien reference points which each correlate to the center line or jung sin.

so the centerline disects the human body followed by each of the boxes to the side.

So in other words you have the right high, left high, right middle, left middle, right low and left low.

Each of these boxes represent how far the limbs can move to the point of where if you move to far it becomes less efficient and cant express weng kiu. From that point.


Sorry, if this is confusing.
Its always easier to show in person.



take care,
Chang

 

[CuongNhuka]

O.k. I think I get it now. And now do you know of Cuong Nhu? I've run into few people who have ever even heard of it. And fewer still who have an oppion on it, which you clearly do. Your profile puts you in Michigan, were there are two Cuong Nhu dojos. Do you have a friend who does Cuong Nhu? Or is it from personnal exeprience that gains you that insight?

 

[Changhfy]

Hey CuongNhuka,

Sorry its been awhile since I have surfed Internet forums, so sorry for the delay.

But I did study Cuong Nhu for around 2 years. (at the Saginaw branch)

(Its a great system, but at the time wasnt what I was looking for)

But there are a ton of valuable insights in learning Cuong Nhu (I dont mean to put any of those down)


take care,
Zach

 

[Ali Rahim]

Is there any deviation, if so; why?
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]“Wing Chun” as I see it, is a “science” in it’s purest form. There are many mathematical concepts that a lot of people talk about, and some even demonstrate, fighting lines, structure and timing. I can go on and on, some don’t even have a clue that the things they are doing are actually full of mathematical concepts, some do have an understanding or ideal, but there's always more to learn. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]When the problem or equation is put on paper and shown, most frown upon its very existence, when our everyday life's or movements are based on natural body mechanics, which is full of many mathematical concepts. Such as: tranciprocal and reciprocal energies, leverage, levers, multiple vectors (in a way that it makes the body move naturally), fulcrums and many more concepts that’s dealing with the natural movement of the body. [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Most throw away wing chun through trial and error. When they do that, they have no ideal that they’re literally tossing wing chun right out of the window…[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]If they can literally toss their wing chun out of the window, it will be much easier for them to lose track of the ideal of being natural, or to understand their natural abilities through everyday body mechanics, or through their very own wing chun structures and to get the most out of it without deviating from the true concepts and principles of wing chun (mostly sensitivity and softness). Everyone talks about softness but when demonstrated, there is sometimes more force than softness. Doing that (trial and error), means that you never had or gave yourself a true start in the wing chun system, coming in the door eliminating things(deviating from the concepts) is always counterproductive to true understanding (your own wing chun system, as taught to you)… [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]One fighting range: I was taught that wing chun does not have long range or short range style of fighting, although we recognize them and understand what most perceive them to be, but yet we don’t practice those ideals. In the system that I do there is only one range of fighting, which is only two triangles merging together in the heat of combat… Why play their game? I was always taught to let him come to me and then meet him halfway (unless your opponent is within arms reach), which will take the chase or the long-range right out of the fight, hence only one range of fighting… [/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]The question is; are you a headhunter or one that truly searches and literally sinks the bridge upon contact (chum kil: for what it really is; by name) or is there any deviation (don’t sink or search for bridge contact) and why? I ask this because; I see many other systems that do not use "taking over the fighting lines" as one of the first boxes of tools of entry dealing with combat as the chum kil system dictates (sinking or searching for bridge contact).[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Ali.[/FONT]

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

To me there are 2 ranges.

Fighting and not fighting.

I was also taught the 2 triangles concept. "Sinking the bridge" makes the attacker to most probably lose his body structure, leaving him vulnerable to maximal damage, and you in a very strong structure to be able to attack effectively and efficiently.

This is easily demonstrable in person. And has been demosntrated to some extent (Ali closing the gap on student) in the videos posted. You just have to look for it.

On the subject, I haven't had the chance to tell you how much I enljoyed and appreciate the videos that you have posted. Thank you, Ali.

The muisic was actually pretty damn good! Cool Hendrix vibe, by the way.

Tomorrow I start training again this year, so I'll get the time to post something. Hope you'll enjoy.

Very tough year, the last one was... this one started GREAT!! Hoep it's the same for you all!
Sincerely and Fraternally,

Juan M. Mercado

 

[Ali Rahim]

Greetings.

To me there are 2 ranges.

Fighting and not fighting.

I was also taught the 2 triangles concept. "Sinking the bridge" makes the attacker to most probably lose his body structure, leaving him vulnerable to maximal damage, and you in a very strong structure to be able to attack effectively and efficiently.

This is easily demonstrable in person. And has been demosntrated to some extent (Ali closing the gap on student) in the videos posted. You just have to look for it.

On the subject, I haven't had the chance to tell you how much I enljoyed and appreciate the videos that you have posted. Thank you, Ali.

The muisic was actually pretty damn good! Cool Hendrix vibe, by the way.

Tomorrow I start training again this year, so I'll get the time to post something. Hope you'll enjoy.

Very tough year, the last one was... this one started GREAT!! Hoep it's the same for you all!
Sincerely and Fraternally,

Juan M. Mercado

Hey thanks,

This is the seventh years, which should be good for everyone.

Ali.

 

[Changhfy]

Hey Ali laoshi,

Hows everything?

Generally when we start before contact is being made we begin in the Bai jong position, until either we use a kiu sau to bridge contact and gain control and structure. Or we wait for the opponent to enter our space being that he is to far away to begin with.

Then use different energies such as Cham Sau, Cheung, lao, ging, etc...
based on the stimulus given.

This sounds pretty difficult to perform in reality based or spontaneous situations, but it works based on structure, position and energy.


Thanks for your input, its always great to read your posts.


take care,
Zach