Understanding The Weapon Before Defending Against It

[MJS]

Pretty much every art has defenses against a gun and knife. Of course, as we all know, or should know, some of these defenses range from excellent to poor. So, that being said, how important do you feel, it is, to know about and understand the weapon, before you even begin to defend against it?

Lets look at a handgun. There are many types of guns out there. There are also people out there, who I'm sure have never held, let alone, actually fired a real gun. Is someone going to be confident enough, having never studied a gun, to actually defend themselves?

The same could also be said about a knife. Various sizes, grips, etc, will all come into play when executing your defense.

So, what are your thoughts?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think you not only have to understand the weapon but also be very good with that understanding if you want to take a person on with one. Weapon/tool training in the Martial Sciences is super important. That is if you wish to really study for personal protection!

 

[Monroe]

I've never even seen a handgun irl. I've fired rifles at a shooting range and tried skeet shooting and paintball shooting if those count for handling weapons.

A little familiarity could probably help.

 

[Cyriacus]

Im inclined to Agree.

In My Training, I was taught the Basics to handling a Double Bladed Knife.
Then taught how to Defend against one.

Same with Handguns.
Granted, they were Fakes.
I have, however, wielded both separately to My Current Training.

Id have a fairly inclusive Pistol Licence and Rifle Licence if the place I was Practitioning that didnt shut down.
Same for Knives.

The Center I was doing it at closed - And I wasnt interested enough in any of the Three to pursue it.
But hey - I can confidently use all Three

 

[Josh Oakley]

I think it is absolutely critical to understand the function and employment of weapons before learning how to defend against them. I have seen some gun defenses that are nuts: for example, grabbing the barrel of the pistol "so that the pistol can't cycle through its recoil, and therefore can't fire". Yes, I have actually seen that taught. But even training with the proper moves won't prepare you for the sound a gun makes. If you freeze up because of the loud noise, the movements are useless. Only being near a gun prepares you for the sound.I could go on.

 

[Monroe]

Josh Oakley - Are you saying it's important to be familiar with the sound or trained with the weapons or a bit of both?

With the gun laws where I live, it's never seemed like there was a point in owning and or training to use them. Gun and bullets to be locked away in separate places. Not much as a form of defence.

 

[Cyriacus]

Josh Oakley - Are you saying it's important to be familiar with the sound or trained with the weapons or a bit of both?

With the gun laws where I live, it's never seemed like there was a point in owning and or training to use them. Gun and bullets to be locked away in separate places. Not much as a form of defence.

In this Country, it is Illegal to Possess a Firearm as a Regular Civilian.

Alot of Criminals have Firearms.
Because Criminals dont CARE about Gun Laws.

Think about it.

 

[Tez3]

However in Australia, the UK and a lot of other places you are unlikely to be attacked by a person with a gun, it's far more likely to be a knife, a broken bottle or glass etc. Guns are more likely to be used in major crimes still fairly rare, the danger most people will face is in pub/bar fights, muggings and football violence. Random violence without weapons happens a lot on our streets usually at kicking out time in our high streets and drunken youths ( male and female) are wandering around the streets. You may never see a gun here but the chances of you running into these drunken yobs and coming off worse are high if you go out in the evening to the same places as them. Most people that are hurt and are likely to be hurt are young males more often drunk themselves.

 

[oftheherd1]

I think it woud have advantages. Different people will perform the same attack with different variables in how they use a weapon. Being exposed to that gives a defender a greater chance at survival.

 

[Chris Parker]

Pretty much every art has defenses against a gun and knife.

Yeah, I've lost track of the number of times we've done pistol defence in my Iai class....

Sorry, I'll be serious now.

Of course, as we all know, or should know, some of these defenses range from excellent to poor. So, that being said, how important do you feel, it is, to know about and understand the weapon, before you even begin to defend against it?

Lets look at a handgun. There are many types of guns out there. There are also people out there, who I'm sure have never held, let alone, actually fired a real gun. Is someone going to be confident enough, having never studied a gun, to actually defend themselves?

The same could also be said about a knife. Various sizes, grips, etc, will all come into play when executing your defense.

So, what are your thoughts?

An understanding of the principles and properties of the weapon is essential, most of all for the instructor teaching the defences. However it's simply not possible to be familiar with the particular idiosyncrasies of each different type, so a more general understanding is what is required.

When it comes to the confidence to defend against, as in your example, a handgun, I think that knowledge of the item itself certainly helps a great deal, particularly in preparing for the realities of it. But I don't think it's essential. Otherwise you'd be spending as much time learning the different weapons as you would learning the defences, and unless they are a part of the systems methods, that's just taking time out from where it's needed.

In this Country, it is Illegal to Possess a Firearm as a Regular Civilian.

Alot of Criminals have Firearms.
Because Criminals dont CARE about Gun Laws.

Think about it.

Actually, that's not true. You can possess a firearm legally as a regular citizen, you just need the correct permits and a valid reason. And honestly, over here most of the criminal use of firearms is directed against other criminals... you'd be far more likely to come up against a knife, or a baseball bat than a gun.

 

[Cyriacus]

Actually, that's not true. You can possess a firearm legally as a regular citizen, you just need the correct permits and a valid reason. And honestly, over here most of the criminal use of firearms is directed against other criminals... you'd be far more likely to come up against a knife, or a baseball bat than a gun.

When I say Regular, I mean, really Regular. The People with Valid Reasons usually have damn Valid Reasons.

And of course, most Criminal use of Firearms is against Other Criminals.
The same goes for the UK, and the US.

 

[Chris Parker]

Bear in mind, a valid reason is "I like to shoot at a pistol range", not necessarily "I'm a security guard".

 

[JohnEdward]

how important do you feel, it is, to know about and understand the weapon, before you even begin to defend against it?

Common martial arts class (except for a good Escrima, Kali, Silat, class) don't understand the weapons they teach. I define common martial artists as recreation or hobby arcane and archaic Asian martial art that doesn't train you like a Navy Seal. But rather trains you as an interest.

Now their isn't much to a sticks and poles to know about, a primitive weapon that have archaic movements that have developed into a song and dance routine for many martial arts. This goes for swords, and other weapons taught like Sai that are out dated as well as their methods. At best most people know a little of the weapons origin, and its intentional use. Rarely do they know their weapon like a Marine knows his weapon.

That leaves us with modern weaponry, guns, tasers, and knifes (in design). Where the common martial artist as little or know knowledge of who the weapon works other than a knife with is pretty much evident. Their understanding of these weapon is very limited to gross disarming techniques. Rarely, do people have the knowledge equally of those who take a gun or taser class, i.e. the mechanical anatomy, much less as it was said shoot it.

In terms of self-defense against a gun, it is irresponsible on the behalf of the instructor not to have or teach proper knowledge of the weapon.

 

[Tez3]

Bear in mind, a valid reason is "I like to shoot at a pistol range", not necessarily "I'm a security guard".

We have loads of gun clubs here because people love shooting not because they need to.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Self-Defense Against Hand Guns:

1) Keep the pointy bit away from thyself, lest the bullet inside jump out and smite thee mightily.
2) More important than how you do this is that you do it.

There are specific defenses that work on one type of handgun that don't work on another; like jamming the web of one's hand into the hammer mechanism of a revolver. And I suppose if one knows the difference between the revolver and the semiautomatic pistol, one might employ such a defense. But typically, the goal is to keep the weapon pointed away, immobilize it, and remove the ability of the person carrying the gun to fire it. Pretty much in that order. I have seen a variety of self-defense drills against handguns, and many of them seemed to me to be of some utility. However, there is a high element of risk in any of them. I haven't seen one yet that I felt was foolproof. However, I also feel that the chances the average person is going to come into contact with a person carrying a firearm that allows it to get withing grabbing range is somewhat low.

Self-Defense Against Knives:

1) Shoot the bastard.
2) If you have no gun, run away. Really fast.

 

[Cyriacus]

Bear in mind, a valid reason is "I like to shoot at a pistol range", not necessarily "I'm a security guard".

Oh, I know.
But you need a Clean Criminal Record (Well, Relatively) to do that.

 

[Tez3]

Oh, I know.
But you need a Clean Criminal Record (Well, Relatively) to do that.

What's wrong with having a clean record?

 

[JohnEdward]

*Americanism; Clean Criminal Record? or at least an oxymoron.

 

[Tez3]

*Americanism; Clean Criminal Record? or at least an oxymoron.

Ah one of them lol!

 

[Jenna]

Can anyone provide a situation where NOT being conversant (or knowledgable of) with an opponent's weapon would render someone less able to defend against it than someone else who IS conversant with that weapon?

I am not arguing the point, I am just wondering in practical terms how it makes any difference. Thank you.