Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[d1jinx]

When Obama won election people here went nuts buying shells and guns. A box of shells for some guns are over $80 dollars here. One person working at the post office said yep we gotta buy all the guns and amo we can gett because Obama's gonna take all our guns away? I don't know about you but theres just something wrong with seeing a post office worker foaming at the mouth about needing more guns and amo?????????

.

do you even know what that was about? and what the hell are you talking about? what does this have to do with the OP?

Obama is from Illinois. do you even know the illinois gun laws that he helped put into effect and supports? yet this has no bearing on this conversation.


why the hell are you rambling about GUN laws and Obama and how liberal your state is?

you sound senile and dilusional.

 

[ballen0351]

Also, if Zimmerman shot Martin as he claimed in the heat of a struggle from point blank range while Martin was on top of him...Zimmerman should be covered in blood. Martin's blood.

How many shootings have you been too? They are not always bloody messes. When i shot the guy i shot i put 5 rounds 3 in his heart and 2 in the aorta learned from autopsy. He had a white tshirt on and other then 5 holes in the shirt there was no blood until i started cpr and pushed the blood out. I didnt think i even hit him at first because i didnt see blood. Ive been to several other shootings with little to no blood. Then ive been to non fatal shootings and looked like i walked into a slaughter house

None of this means that Zimmerman must be definitively guilty. But for anyone to claim with a straight face that "the evidence" mostly supports Zimmerman's account (which one?) is laughable. There are many holes in Zimmerman's story and many pieces of countervailing evidence. Yet all we hear are desperate attempts to change the subject (Trayvon was a thug! Race war! Sharpton!) or uncritical acceptance of the shooter's story. Laughable.

Zimmermans story has not changed the news accounts of his story have changed. Have you seen his statement? Have you listened to his interview with police? Tell me what actual EVIDENCE you have. News storys are not evidence.

 

[shesulsa]

What kind of a pat-down was THAT?

And ... what kind of walk-in was that?

Not accustomed to seeing people in cuffs treated so nicely. Sorry - had to say it.

Police Surveillance Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman



Of course, with paramedics on site, he could have gotten some medical attention and clean up before he was brought in, and those police officers seem pretty sympathetic, but it's still a little suspicious.

 

[MJS]

Police Surveillance Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman



Of course, with paramedics on site, he could have gotten some medical attention and clean up before he was brought in, and those police officers seem pretty sympathetic, but it's still a little suspicious.

That is true. However, looking at the video, it didn't even look like his head was injured. You'd think that even if it was cleaned up, there'd still be some sign of injury.

 

[MJS]

Here in Alaska you don't need a concealed carry permit in fact you can carry anything anywhere except a bar, school, day care or womens shelter ect. However people here do far more time for killing wildlife than a human. Manslaughter could be out 2-3 years kill a moose or bear ilegally and you could face 10 or more years.

Monday our legislature is looking at approving an even more liberal version of the stand your ground law. NRA pretty strong here will be interesting to see if shootings go up with new law.

When Obama won election people here went nuts buying shells and guns. A box of shells for some guns are over $80 dollars here. One person working at the post office said yep we gotta buy all the guns and amo we can gett because Obama's gonna take all our guns away? I don't know about you but theres just something wrong with seeing a post office worker foaming at the mouth about needing more guns and amo?????????

As for our DoJang we are going to do a shooting safety course this summer and alot of recreation target practice my self going to buy the Smith and Wesson 500 revolver with 500 grain loads due to bears its the only gun you can really pull fast to have a chance with a bear at dead run out of bushes 50 feet away and have chance not being injured.

Umm,,,,you do realize that 99% of this has nothing to do with the OP, right? The only thing remotely said that applies, is the bold. Everything else, especially the ranting about the President, is moot to the thread.

 

[shesulsa]

That is true. However, looking at the video, it didn't even look like his head was injured. You'd think that even if it was cleaned up, there'd still be some sign of injury.

Yeah, unless he were allowed to change clothes, but still ... I would expect to see some kind of laceration somewhere on his head that, if it was bad enough to bleed, probably should show up even on that quality of video.

 

[MJS]

I think that many people would tend to expect that the most recent information from the authorities and media would tend to be more accurate as the details come together than the immediate media reports that were accepted eagerly and uncritically by so many. Not sure what is so "uh, odd" about such an expectation.

Probably because one min. one thing is being said, and in the next, suddenly the story changes. IMHO, its that, that makes people go hmm, get pissed, go on rants, cry for Zimmermans head on a plate, etc.

 

[d1jinx]

gotta apologize to the group. getting a little caught up in the 1 thing i was most disgusted with.

My whole reason for posting was the shear disgust of how the media has created a frenzy and this whole thing has been painted a racial/civil rights issue.

Somewhere along the line I found myself pointing out real/blatant/obvious race/hate crimes and asking why no deal was made of them. I was pissed that the radio here was calling him a White man and a White on Black Crime.

My opinion does not matter anymore. I really dont care what happened. My whole point was we have serious tragedies daily here and people dont care and it doesnt eget the media attention that this 1 incident has and the reason this one has gotten it is because many are painting it as a RACE Crime.

No one can say that he deliberately shot him cause he was black. but because he called him a Coon, he is a racist white devil and "America Continues To Have RACE Issues"?

I'm sorry, I am done with this.

 

[ballen0351]

What kind of a pat-down was THAT?

It wasnt it was a search they checked all his pockets. By the time he arrived at the PD her prob been searched at least 3 to 5 times already theres not much left to find.

And ... what kind of walk-in was that?

Not accustomed to seeing people in cuffs treated so nicely. Sorry - had to say it.

What do you want them to do slam him against a few walls? Despite popular belief not every cop just goes around beating people up. If the suspect is being complaint why trat him badly? You want to piss a detective off act like a jerk to a suspect he needs to interview. Make him so mad at how hes being treated he wont talk to any police. The more serious the crime the nicer the police treat you. We get McDonalds, cigarettes, sodas ect for people accused of Murder just to relax them make them feel comfortable so they are willing to talk. Treat them like a jerk and see how fast they tell you to buzz off they want a lawyer then you cant talk to him at all anymore.

 

[elder999]

How many shootings have you been too? They are not always bloody messes. When i shot the guy i shot i put 5 rounds 3 in his heart and 2 in the aorta learned from autopsy. He had a white tshirt on and other then 5 holes in the shirt there was no blood until i started cpr and pushed the blood out. I didnt think i even hit him at first because i didnt see blood. Ive been to several other shootings with little to no blood.

Not at point blank range, I'll bet.......

]

 

[punisher73]

When was the video taken? How long after the incident? Any pictures of Zimmerman a day or two after the incident (most bruising doesn't show up right away)? If there was blood all over him, the police might have taken the clothes as evidence and had Zimmerman change clothes.

There are TOO MANY things unknown and the media is just throwing bits and pieces out there with NO FACTS known yet to make a judgement. Same thing with Martin and the funeral home director, he's now commenting on post mortem injuries showing or not showing, come on now that's just opinion. Has the coroner or forensic pathologist made any comments?

 

[MJS]

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-t-stand-ground-defense-233500523.html

In many of the articles and blogs on the "stand your ground" law, people are condemning or defending the Florida law that neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman invoked to explain his shooting of the unarmed black teenager. It didn't take long for my students to start debating the issue in class, with the fight coming down along racial lines, over whether the law was right or not. Finally, one student thinking about a career in law asked if we could see the law, which I pulled up from the Florida legislature page.
Even those most critical of the Treyvon Martin shooting couldn't find a reason to oppose the law. Yet even the most ardent supporters contended it didn't seem the law applied to Zimmerman. If anything, Zimmerman seemed to make up his own law as he disregarded orders not to follow the suspect. Nor has anyone established the presence of a weapon that Martin possessed. He just had Skittles and ice tea.
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who was the chief executive of the state who signed the law into effect, was critical of Zimmerman as he defended the "stand your ground" law. At the University of Texas at Arlington, Bush said, "This law does not apply to this particular circumstance. Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn't mean chase after somebody who's turned their back."
Bush also faulted local officials for dragging their feet on the investigation. Zimmerman might not have known about the law, but law enforcement officials who investigated the matter should have known better that the law was inapplicable to the case. Florida Gov. Rick Scott has been condemned for being slow to take an interest in the matter.
Now folks are pressuring Scott to quickly review, and possibly dismiss, the law. But the first priority should be to prosecute the case that evidently had nothing to do with the law. Justice for Martin should come more quickly. The review of the law, which is not responsible for the shooting, should be slower and more thorough.

Thought this was interesting. I bolded something that I felt was interesting. Sure, of course, this is common sense. Reading this, it would imply (at least IMO) that initially, when Zimmerman was following the kid, that the law doesnt apply. Yet, once Martin turned and advanced towards Zimmerman, that now it does.

IMO, I'd call BS on that. Why? Because that's akin to me egging someone on, calling someone a bunch of nasty names, with the intent to piss them off. In this case, I'd be the aggressor. Yet when the guy I'm swearing at, gets tired of hearing me and comes towards me, now I claim SD? No, sorry, IMO, it doesnt work that way.

 

[ballen0351]

Adding to that, none of the officers who handled Zimmerman were wearing PPE like gloves. That is generally SOP for handling persons and materials contaminated with human bodily fluids.

So now your an expert on police SOP's? I know officers that NEVER wear gloves. Its nasty but true. I also wouldnt have put on gloves just to walk a guy from my car to the station theres no point hes being complaint. If I suspected he may try to fight or resist then yeah Id glove up but other then they the only other time i would glove up is during a strip search or when I fingerprinted him.

Also, Zimmerman showed no difficulty in getting out of the car or moving. Or for breathing with his mouth closed. We all know what happens when your nose is broken and what that means for your breathing. We also know that people who have taken a beating, a "great bodily harm", "afraid for my life" beating, generally show some impairment in their movement.

really because Ive had a guy just get into anasty car accident duing a car chase run from the car like a jack rabbit holding his eye in his head. Ive had suspects jump out and run from the back of my police car cuffed in the back and with leg shackles on and they looked like olympic sprinters. Your observations just dont go along with real life. You dont know his back ground you dont know how long he sat at the scene before he was driven to the station he had plenty of time to calm down get his wits about him.

Again, none of this means that Zimmerman must be guilty. But it exposes holes in his story, yet again. Just like the 911 tapes shot holes in the first story. I wonder what story we'll get next?

Holes in his story? When have we even heard HIS story? We heard the story the News claims to be true. I have not seen his interview with the police, I have not seen his written statements. So I have not gotten HIS story yet at all and nether have you

 

[shesulsa]

It wasnt it was a search they checked all his pockets. By the time he arrived at the PD her prob been searched at least 3 to 5 times already theres not much left to find.

Okay.

What do you want them to do slam him against a few walls? Despite popular belief not every cop just goes around beating people up. If the suspect is being complaint why trat him badly? You want to piss a detective off act like a jerk to a suspect he needs to interview. Make him so mad at how hes being treated he wont talk to any police.

Why knee-jerk to the polar opposite of what I said? How does this make your argument any better than mine or anyone else's you disagree with? I'm looking at the video and an officer walks between bikes while Zimmerman walks on the outside with no one flanking him on the outside. I'm sure they are in a secure enclosure, however ... I dunno, it just looks like bad positioning to me, even if they're trying to be nice and he is giving them no problems. Can you ... calmly ... comment, please?

The more serious the crime the nicer the police treat you. We get McDonalds, cigarettes, sodas ect for people accused of Murder just to relax them make them feel comfortable so they are willing to talk. Treat them like a jerk and see how fast they tell you to buzz off they want a lawyer then you cant talk to him at all anymore.

While, again, you immediately knee-jerk to the exact polar opposite of any kind of question, I definitely understand the importance of calmness and politeness when dealing with potentially dangerous individuals. Lived with a few, got that down.

 

[ballen0351]

Not at point blank range, I'll bet.......

]

Actually I was stanging 4 feet away when I fired 5 40 cal rounds out of a Glock and saw no blood. Not until he fell to the ground and I tried CPR did blood start to come out. I believe Zimmerman had a 9mm which is a smaller round the hole tends to close on itself when it enters the body keeping the blood inside and the person bleeds out from the inside. But what do I know Ive been to more shootings then I can remember but I suppose your the expert.

 

[MJS]

gotta apologize to the group. getting a little caught up in the 1 thing i was most disgusted with.

No problem. Happens to everyone.

My whole reason for posting was the shear disgust of how the media has created a frenzy and this whole thing has been painted a racial/civil rights issue.

Somewhere along the line I found myself pointing out real/blatant/obvious race/hate crimes and asking why no deal was made of them. I was pissed that the radio here was calling him a White man and a White on Black Crime.

My opinion does not matter anymore. I really dont care what happened. My whole point was we have serious tragedies daily here and people dont care and it doesnt eget the media attention that this 1 incident has and the reason this one has gotten it is because many are painting it as a RACE Crime.

No one can say that he deliberately shot him cause he was black. but because he called him a Coon, he is a racist white devil and "America Continues To Have RACE Issues"?

Agreed! Add in 3 cups of media, 1 cup of Rev. Jackson, 1 cup of Sharpton, mix well, and bake on 350 for 1 hr. What do you get? A cluster ****! You do make a valid point though. In this case, you see calls for a lynching yet when the tables are turned......

I'm sorry, I am done with this.

Nothing to be sorry for. You're voicing your opinion. By all means, please, stay and participate in the thread. But if you really want to go, thank you for your contributions.

 

[shesulsa]

Thought this was interesting. I bolded something that I felt was interesting. Sure, of course, this is common sense. Reading this, it would imply (at least IMO) that initially, when Zimmerman was following the kid, that the law doesnt apply. Yet, once Martin turned and advanced towards Zimmerman, that now it does.

IMO, I'd call BS on that. Why? Because that's akin to me egging someone on, calling someone a bunch of nasty names, with the intent to piss them off. In this case, I'd be the aggressor. Yet when the guy I'm swearing at, gets tired of hearing me and comes towards me, now I claim SD? No, sorry, IMO, it doesnt work that way.

I have to agree - and we can't know if when he says he went back to his truck that he actually did (did this really happen or did he throw that in to make it seem like self-defense?), or maybe he was going back for something (baseball bat? crowbar? GUN?). If this were me and someone said they were going to kill me and started off towards a vehicle which could potentially contain something to kill me with ... lord, I can't say what I'd do here. If I were close enough, I guess I'd try to subdue him (like, knock him the eff out) and THEN run like hell and scream for help. If I were far enough away I might just run. Proximity would have to be my deciding factor there.

This really seems shady with all these unanswered questions and I doubt we'll ever get the whole truth.

It's telling, though, that the mortician noticed no physical signs of a fight on Martin.

 

[shesulsa]

When was the video taken? How long after the incident? Any pictures of Zimmerman a day or two after the incident (most bruising doesn't show up right away)? If there was blood all over him, the police might have taken the clothes as evidence and had Zimmerman change clothes.

You know what? You're right. He was taken in four hours later. I was focusing on what I was watching and had my speaker off - they said he came in four hours later - ample time to get cleaned up, get first aid, change clothes.

There are TOO MANY things unknown and the media is just throwing bits and pieces out there with NO FACTS known yet to make a judgement. Same thing with Martin and the funeral home director, he's now commenting on post mortem injuries showing or not showing, come on now that's just opinion. Has the coroner or forensic pathologist made any comments?

You make a good point, however, the mortician who took care of my mom said he was required to do a thorough examination of her body and look for signs of abuse, injury or struggle (she was in hospice care). He said he was required to examine her for fight evidence and even sexual abuse to include in his report to the ME who typically doesn't show up at hospice deaths.

I would think there would be an ME report in this case - I wonder if it will be released to the public?

 

[ballen0351]

Why knee-jerk to the polar opposite of what I said? How does this make your argument any better than mine or anyone else's you disagree with? I'm looking at the video and an officer walks between bikes while Zimmerman walks on the outside with no one flanking him on the outside. I'm sure they are in a secure enclosure, however ... I dunno, it just looks like bad positioning to me, even if they're trying to be nice and he is giving them no problems. Can you ... calmly ... comment, please?

it wasnt knee-jerk I was commenting to your post about never seeing someone treated so well in cuffs. I didnt know there was a correct way to walk someone thru a locked and secure sally port. How would you like them to walk? Would I have done it that way no. I keep one arm on a cuffed person at all times but thats only because Ive had someone trip when cuffed fall and smash there face on the floor because they cant break there fall because they are handcuff behind there back. I however have learned from my mistake and dont do that any more. Im one of the few at my station that do this however. Others normally pull into our sally port open the car door tell the suspect to walk over to the door to the cell block while they are walking the officer checks the seat for anything the suspect shoved under the seat at the same time a booking officer opens the cell block door and takes your prisioner inside we normally never see them again unless I need to interview them. We walk upstairs complete th paperwork send it down to the transport officer who then takes the suspect to the court house for the inital apperance.
Like i said Im not sure what you expect to see. With a comment like you posted you must have expected them to rough him up or something.

 

[shesulsa]

it wasnt knee-jerk I was commenting to your post about never seeing someone treated so well in cuffs. I didnt know there was a correct way to walk someone thru a locked and secure sally port. How would you like them to walk? Would I have done it that way no. I keep one arm on a cuffed person at all times but thats only because Ive had someone trip when cuffed fall and smash there face on the floor because they cant break there fall because they are handcuff behind there back. I however have learned from my mistake and dont do that any more.

Exactly. When we're talking about a group who must follow procedure all the time, to see some so lax ... well, it makes one wonder what else they're lax at.

Like i said Im not sure what you expect to see. With a comment like you posted you must have expected them to rough him up or something.

See? That right there. You make assumptions like this and it kind of ... well, it betrays that you just knee-jerk react. Why would I expect them to rough him up? I would expect them to lead him in by the arm and at least flank him on the outside. It's almost as if they're taking in one of their own.

My DH's cousin works custody here in town and we've discussed how much leeway she gives to whom and ... she, like you, is much more careful than most others. She said it also depends on what they are brought in for.

Decaf, friend. It's much easier to answer questions logically and calmly, mkay? I'm not your enemy here.

**EDITED TO ADD**

And yes, I'm pretty sure the departments around here have a procedure for walking a suspect from a secure sally port into the building and into intake and from one point to the other until they are in the cell and the cell is secured.