Ultimate Fighter Reality Show

[clapping_tiger]

From a spectator and fans point of view the fight was boring. Neither guy showed me anything that impressed me. But from Josh's stand point, he couldn't have fought a better fight. He knew he was less experienced, and knew he couldn't stand and trade punches with Chris. He comes from a classic wrestling background, so I don't think his submission game is very strong. He would be good at takedown, pinning his opponent, and reigning down elbows and punches, and basically draining his opponent of any fighting spirit. Which in a way is what he did. Did he suck at it? I thought so. His elbows were few and far between and pretty weak, But he did swell up Chris's eye. But he stuck to his game and took Chris out of his. Chris was beat after the second takedown. The Lay and Play style only works when the guy you are fighting with does less than you. Chris didn't really land any punches, and only got off one good knee, but it looked like it glanced Josh. Josh really landed no good punches but I think he had 2 good knee shots. As far as the scoring goes. I don't think I am an expert or anything. But I felt Josh won both rounds also. Even though Chris' takedown defense was pretty strong, Josh took him down every time they stood them back up, and that is something in the judges eyes. I know for a fact that Judges in the UFC do lean toward the fighter who delivers some damage. And like I said before, Chris's eye was puffed up. For being a striker, Chris threw few punches and even less landed. He was a disgrace to the striker race. And once he was on the ground he was basically owned, with the exception of one close submission attempt. Josh clearly won the fight in my opinion, even though his performance was not that impressive either.

What did amused me was how much such a self-proclaimed bad *** cries so much. I know losing can be tough, but come on. He had no right to complain about Josh just laying on him, what did he do? Throw 5 punches?

 

[clapping_tiger]

This show HAS to be rigged. There is no way a 4-0 wrestler with next to no striking skills should be able to own an 18-1 power puncher, and Leben's victories were against some tough guys. If Koscheck wins the middleweight contract, I will be stunned and dumfounded. Provided Quarry's ankle heals up in time, I suspect he will win yet.

No way this show is rigged just because the underdog won. How can a 4-0 wrestler beat an 18-1 power puncher? Take the puncher out of his game. Remember in the fight game, anyone can win. What if everything was reversed, would you say the same thing? "how can an 4-0 power puncher with no ground game, own a world class 18-1 wrestler? I think the key to victory is who can exploit thier opponents weaknesses and use their strongest points. Although I was disapointed in Josh's lack of submission skills. All these guys are pretty much on the same level of conditioning. The only difference we see in their record is their MMA experience. Josh has a lot of wrestling experience, and that does not count for his 4-0 MMA record. If Chris was supposed to be so good, what did he show us? Just a little less than Josh. I don't think Josh will win the contract, the guy who fought and won last week by a rear naked choke is a better fighter than Josh was. We will be able to form a better opinion once we get to see all the guys fight though.

By the way, I don't care much for Josh. I thought all around he didn't have what it takes to win the contract. But he did win that "fight".

 

[RSJ]

Ok, I agree that it is possible for the lesser experienced guy to win. I was just very suprised and dissapointed with the fight. Even still, something is odd about this show.

I agree that Diego is better than Koscheck; they come from different backgrounds, however. Diego is a submission grappler, not so much a wrestler. Koscheck no doubt is the best takedown artist in the house, but then that's all he seemed to be able to do. He looks like Severn prior to him working on his striking and subs. He just wins with takedowns, taking his opponent down left and right. He has to learn to at least work for subs. His game looked deficient.

 

[clapping_tiger]

I was just very suprised and dissapointed with the fight.

So was I. It was pretty weak. I think because of the build up, and all the tough talk Chris talked, I thought it was going to be a very good fight.

Even still, something is odd about this show.

I guess we will find out next week. Did you see the preview to next week? Looks like the judges score a fight for a fighter that did not clearly win. It will be interesting to see what Dana Does. The thing with these reality shows is they always seem to be able to play the cast however they want them. I was getting suspicious when Chris was getting away with whatever he wanted and never had to face the music. I thought they were pushing for him to win the whole thing.

I agree that Diego is better than Koscheck; they come from different backgrounds, however. Diego is a submission grappler, not so much a wrestler. Koscheck no doubt is the best takedown artist in the house, but then that's all he seemed to be able to do. He looks like Severn prior to him working on his striking and subs. He just wins with takedowns, taking his opponent down left and right. He has to learn to at least work for subs. His game looked deficient.

That is what surprised me. The game has changed so much and with such a strong background in wrestling, I thought that he would have worked on subs a lot and not relied totally on wrestling, not to mention bringing his striking ability up to speed. But I didn't even see him attempt one submission. That confused me. Still, it is a pretty good show. After we get a chance to see what everyone has, it will be interesting to see who everyone thinks may take the contracts.

 

[MJS]

I certainly was surprised by the outcome. I thought for sure that Chris would have won. IMO, he should have come out much more aggressive with his striking. I'll give Josh credit with his takedowns, but once on the ground, he did very little except hold Chris down. That is one rule that should be changed IMO. I think that even if you are in the top position, you should be required to do something other than just hold the person down. If someone can win by holding someone down, then they should not be stood up by the ref.

Mike

 

[triwahine]

All I can say is BORING! All the hype and none of the gusto. I was really shocked to see that it was such a slow match. I thought Chris would have come out more aggressively, but I believe someone else mentioned he might have been watching his emotions too much. He might have let that get the better of hime. I don't know, I'm not in his head. Only Chris knows what he was thinking and how he was reacting. As for Josh, he sticked to his game plan and it paid off. I will say in rather dull fashion. For two guys that hated each other so much, they sure didn't explode in the octagon. Hope to see a better match in the next week.....

 

[Shogun]

Diego will win the Middleweight class, now that chris is gone.

aw, I still am mad about josh winning.

 

[SammyB57]

Josh has only been training MMA for a year, so cut him some slack. We have yet to see the submission guys in action other than Diego and he was quick.

Kenny Florian and Diego will be the top Jiu-Jitsu representatives I think.
We haven't seen much of Ken Flo, Mike Swick, Sam Hoger, all because they are normal and cool and don't have the house antics. But Ken Flo is sposed to be a bad mama jama on the mat. Did anybody catch him sweep Josh Koscheck like a ragdoll!

I also like Forrest a whole lot. He is so hilarious, he adds much needed comedic relief.

The show isn't rigged but it's biased. Leben got babied all day long because he was Randy's boy. It's also weird how Randy is so good at MMA competition, but as a coach hasn't won a single challenge or fight yet.

Koscheck's takedowns are near unstoppable. He just doesn't know enough Jiu-Jitsu to know what to do once he takes his opponent down.

Preview of next week is a foretaste of the bias. It's in all combat sports when matches come to a decision. Dana says it was a draw but the judges gave a decision. I am sure it will bring plenty of debate.

UFC rules aren't as good as pride. They (the UFC) favor wrestlers and lay and pray.

 

[triwahine]

I would like to see them brought back to standing more quickly if action is not there. I think the 2+ minutes before they are brought back up is too long and can be boring. I mean little/to no strikes and no attempts at submissions, should be re-started from neutral IMHO. I like to see a good fight, when the action is there and constent. Maybe we'll see more in fights to come.

 

[clapping_tiger]

I would like to see them brought back to standing more quickly if action is not there. I think the 2+ minutes before they are brought back up is too long and can be boring. I mean little/to no strikes and no attempts at submissions, should be re-started from neutral IMHO. I like to see a good fight, when the action is there and constent. Maybe we'll see more in fights to come.

I agree, but on a positive note. The UFC did change it's rules if they pull the fighters off to have a doctor look at a cut. Like in the rematch between Randy Couture and Vitor Belfort when they seperated the fighters on the ground to have the doc take a look, and when the doc gave the go ahead they restarted them in the postion they were in when they stopped them. So who knows, maybe they will shorten the time a fighter can just lay on his opponent and rely on taking him down everytime they stand them up because of lack of action.

 

[sobeballer]

Dude, I can't believe I've actually been excited about this show. Where did they find these guys? Ultimate fighters? I can't believe I waited 3 weeks to see these to guys hug each other in the ring. No bumps, no bruises, no attempts for locks or chokes, come on guys your on national TV looking like a bunch of fairies. Ultimate losers

 

[ginshun]

All I know is that I was pretty hyped up to see that Chris/Josh fight, and it ended up sucking big time.

The whole fight all I did was wonder why neither of them even tried to put any kind of submission on the other one. Its probably easy to say from the outside looking in, but to me it looked like they both had several oppertunities for wrist / elbow / arm bar type submissions. Wether they could have actually gotten them really sunk in is another thing, but it didn't even look like they tried.

Maybe they just don't really know them that well. If that is the case, I can't see Josh beating anyone who actaully knows submissions. He's going to take the guy down, and then get beat once he is on the ground because he has nothing to do when he gets there.

Wrestling is great to know, but pinning a guy doesn't get you a win in UFC.

 

[Mr_Scissors]

Go and watch a tape of the fight, you'll see multiple attempts at a kimura from Leben, he coudn't lock it but that's another issue. He also tried for oma-plata shoulder lock at one point but used the wrong hand so it didn't work.

All-in-all the fight was awful, but there were some submission attempts.

I find it appalling that Leben had amassed an 18-1 record before that time.

 

[Marginal]

I got suckered. Looking back on the events leading to the fight, nothing happened. A guy threatening to cripple or kill someone because he got wet? That's retarded. In retrospect, I didn't care about the "crime" at all. I just don't like Josh and his pal, Bobby. (Southworth moreso)

 

[RSJ]

Ultimate losers ? Lmao. Truth be told, the quality of the fights has been piss-poor. Lodune gets KTFO'd without putting up much of a good fight to a guy who had just cut 20 pouds the day before. Karalexis gets tapped by a guy in under two minutes and Leben gets laid on and bores me to death.

 

[WilliamJ]

Yeah, but Alex was not tapped by a nobody Diego Sanchez is a hell of a grappler.

 

[clapping_tiger]

In defense of the show, we have to remember what these guys are fighting for. A UFC contract, they are not fighting for a chance at the UFC title, or even a "Super Fight". Some of the preliminary fights in the UFC events are just a bad a showing as what we have seen in The Ultimate Fighter. When these guys win the contract, don’t expect to see whoever wins fighting Randy or Chuck for quite some time. You may not even see them for a while after they win the contract, because their skills are not up to Main Event status. What we are watching is someone getting a shot at someday becoming a UFC contender, but not right off the show. Now we may see them in the First event after they win the competition just because of the exposure they got from the show, but if that fight is a wash. It will be a long time before you see them on PPV, they will be a preliminary fighter until they show some real crowd pleasing skills.

 

[SammyB57]

It will be a long time before you see them on PPV, they will be a preliminary fighter until they show some real crowd pleasing skills.

It's ironic Karo Parisyan and Genki Sudo usually end up in the prelim's since they are both exciting fighters. I want less interviews and hype, more fights.... just like Pride.... minus the worked fights.

 

[Dronak]

When these guys win the contract, don’t expect to see whoever wins fighting Randy or Chuck for quite some time. You may not even see them for a while after they win the contract, because their skills are not up to Main Event status.

That's a good point. In case any of you watched the Tough Enough series that the WWE produced a couple years ago, it was the same thing. The wrestlers were fighting for a chance at a contract. As I recall, they did get a few appearances on TV after winning, but rather quickly they were taken off and, I assume, sent to developmental schools to train. Eventually if they were good enough, they got back on TV again. They weren't main event status to start, so you didn't see top-notch wrestling in the show. I expect this will go the same way. Once the people get the contracts, they'll probably continue to train in order to get to a higher level. Give them some time and they may prove to be some of the best young fighters around right now. *shrug*

 

[SammyB57]

There are much better MMA fighters out there that aren't in the UFC.... but the shows had many stipulations that most MMA fighters didn't want to agree to. Some of them already had contracts with other organizations like King of the Cage and Rings.