Ugh!!!!

[Don Roley]

Someone please explain something to me.

Why is it that every idiot with a sword just has to put a video of themselves using it on youtube?

 

[Ninjamom]

I think that's obvious: why make a fool of yourself at home, when with today's technology you can make a fool of yourself in front of millions at once?!?!

 

[Kacey]

Because he can... or so he thinks!

 

[Don Roley]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7852479463569512577&q=katana

I blame the Highlander movies, and Conan. All these twerps swinging around a sword like they were trying to turn into a helicopter.

 

[Flying Crane]

Someone please explain something to me.

Why is it that every idiot with a sword just has to put a video of themselves using it on youtube?

Strange. It looks like for part of this clip he is using a Chinese broadsword, yet he keeps using the same technique. If he knew anything about Chinese broadsword, he would know they aren't interchangeable. The technique is very different. That's just further proof of his ignorance.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Someone please explain something to me.

Why is it that every idiot with a sword just has to put a video of themselves using it on youtube?

Strange. It looks like for part of this clip he is using a Chinese broadsword, yet he keeps using the same technique. If he knew anything about Chinese broadsword, he would know they aren't interchangeable. The technique is very different. That's just further proof of his ignorance.

Actually the techniques look to be similiar to what is taught in some of the FMA's or some other Indonesian Arts.

What I see as an issue is that the Japanese Katana and Wakizashi are light and easy to handle with one hand so the quick wrist reactions are easy to handle and not hurt yourself. I blame the really sweet design of the weapon. (* Sarcasm guys *)

So, if one is looking for traditional training with a weapon from the culture of its' design these videos go from just being silly or funny to taking on the issue of looking dangerous and insulting to some.

The movies where people are twirling blades around are flashy and flashy sells. Where as simplicity is not flashy nor is it obvious and the average person has no idea what just happened as they did not "see" it.

 

[Cthulhu]

www.bushido.org for a good laugh. Another guy who created his own style..."seicho jutsu".

Cthulhu

 

[Flying Crane]

So, if one is looking for traditional training with a weapon from the culture of its' design these videos go from just being silly or funny to taking on the issue of looking dangerous and insulting to some.

I think this hits the nail on the head. The weapons have a very specific type of technique to use them properly, and that takes good instruction and a lot of work to develop. Seeing someone pick up the weapon and start spinning it around in such a silly and stupid manner, with no regard to the historical context or the proper technique for the weapon goes way beyond silly or funny. It really is downright insulting.

 

[jks9199]

Actually the techniques look to be similiar to what is taught in some of the FMA's or some other Indonesian Arts.

What I see as an issue is that the Japanese Katana and Wakizashi are light and easy to handle with one hand so the quick wrist reactions are easy to handle and not hurt yourself. I blame the really sweet design of the weapon. (* Sarcasm guys *)

So, if one is looking for traditional training with a weapon from the culture of its' design these videos go from just being silly or funny to taking on the issue of looking dangerous and insulting to some.

The movies where people are twirling blades around are flashy and flashy sells. Where as simplicity is not flashy nor is it obvious and the average person has no idea what just happened as they did not "see" it.

It seems like lots of folks are out there, learning a little of this and a little of that, and then trying to apply it to something completely different. Right now, it seems like everybody and their brother goes to a Filipino seminar, comes back with a couple of principles and tries to use 'em with everything from a pocket knife to a 10' stick...

Some common principles can be applied, especially within a systemic approach. The same body dynamics I teach empty hand can be used with a stick, and the same general principles can be used with a knife or sword -- but you've got to make some adjustments for the weapon. I noticed in one of those YouTube links that a guy was doing some sort of move where he stopped the sword on his back... Wanna bet he wasn't doing that with a live blade? (I also think one guy is gonna give himself a haircut -- or worse -- if he ain't careful!)

 

[Rich Parsons]

It seems like lots of folks are out there, learning a little of this and a little of that, and then trying to apply it to something completely different. Right now, it seems like everybody and their brother goes to a Filipino seminar, comes back with a couple of principles and tries to use 'em with everything from a pocket knife to a 10' stick...

Some common principles can be applied, especially within a systemic approach. The same body dynamics I teach empty hand can be used with a stick, and the same general principles can be used with a knife or sword -- but you've got to make some adjustments for the weapon. I noticed in one of those YouTube links that a guy was doing some sort of move where he stopped the sword on his back... Wanna bet he wasn't doing that with a live blade? (I also think one guy is gonna give himself a haircut -- or worse -- if he ain't careful!)

jks9199,

I agree the principals and concepts can be applied across ranges and weapons. The issue comes in that a person has to understand the weapon and the attributes of the weapon and be able to adjust to these.

Yet, when there is a weapon specifically from a certain culture and or certain art, and it is not used traditionally I see like I said where people get offended.

And yes, hair cuts and cuts in the clothes and or of their skin is what happens to many.

 

[jks9199]

jks9199,

I agree the principals and concepts can be applied across ranges and weapons. The issue comes in that a person has to understand the weapon and the attributes of the weapon and be able to adjust to these.

Yet, when there is a weapon specifically from a certain culture and or certain art, and it is not used traditionally I see like I said where people get offended.

And yes, hair cuts and cuts in the clothes and or of their skin is what happens to many.

I agree.

I'm fortunate; the system I've trained in for 20 years contains empty hand and weapons, and the weapons are intended as an extension of the hand. But extension doesn't mean that they're the same. The same principles (and much of the same motion) can power a vertical fist straight punch, a strike with a short stick, a strike with medium or long stick, a stab with a knife or sword, etc. But -- each weapon will have it's own principles to accompany the basic foundation, too. For example, you have to know how to get the knife OUT after you've stabbed... or where you can stop a sword cut safely.

I did a couple of searches on the seicho jutsu stuff. "Interesting" reading... and it explains exactly why the guy is doing stuff that doesn't make sense for the weapon he's using. I won't try to do a close paraphrase -- but the guy who founded it in Canada basically did his own mish-mash of stuff, and considers it (of course) superior to everything else.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Why is it every time Don Roley starts a post like this I just have to check it out? :uhyeah:

It seems like lots of folks are out there, learning a little of this and a little of that, and then trying to apply it to something completely different. Right now, it seems like everybody and their brother goes to a Filipino seminar, comes back with a couple of principles and tries to use 'em with everything from a pocket knife to a 10' stick...

Welcome to the world of CMA. There are a lot of people that go to a seminar or 2 and BANG they are now a Sifu of the style or one they made up

Strange. It looks like for part of this clip he is using a Chinese broadsword, yet he keeps using the same technique. If he knew anything about Chinese broadsword, he would know they aren't interchangeable. The technique is very different. That's just further proof of his ignorance.

As Crane has basically said the Chinese Da Dao does NOT equal the Katana (please forgive me if I am using the wrong name here)?

 

[Grenadier]

This fellow is an attention monger, and looking at a few of his other videos, I could only bite down to stop myself from laughing.

The way he's twirling around the katana in the same way he twirls around the dao, makes me wonder where he got the aluminum blades...

Why is it every time Don Roley starts a post like this I just have to check it out? :uhyeah:

It's just like that giant wreck on the highway. You know you shouldn't look at it, but it's just too fascinating some times...

As Crane has basically said the Chinese Da Dao does NOT equal the Katana (please forgive me if I am using the wrong name here)?

Yes, he did, but not in a negative way. The Dao has its own set of techniques, just as the Katana does, and the principles behind the use of one or the other are going to be different indeed, hence not being equal. For some, the Dao will be a better choice, for others the Katana will be the better choice.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes, he did, but not in a negative way. The Dao has its own set of techniques, just as the Katana does, and the principles behind the use of one or the other are going to be different indeed, hence not being equal. For some, the Dao will be a better choice, for others the Katana will be the better choice.

Agreed

I have very little experience with a katana, I have much more training with the Dao and I would have to say from what I have seen that I have not seen a Katana handled that way, although I did handle the wooden version in a similar fashion for fun once, probably why I no longer train katana.

As to his Dao, there are a couple of moves I do not quite understand but I have only train the dao with Tai Chi and Long Fist so that may mean little.

 

[pgsmith]

Why is it that every idiot with a sword just has to put a video of themselves using it on youtube?

Most of it, just like this fellow's, is free advertising.

This guy's "sword techniques" look ridiculous to anyone with even a modicum of legitimate instruction in any sword art. However, that is not the audience to which this is aimed. The vast majority of people in the U.S., or in any country for that matter, have only TV and movies as their sole exposure to any sort of sword work. Flashy, nifty looking stuff is what they expect. People that post videos such as the one in Mr. Roley's initial post are going to get a lot of positive feedback from the general population simply because it looks cool to them. They can probably sell a lot of DVDs or get a lot of new students for their dojo with it. Used car salesman don't only sell cars.

I don't really understand those that get offended by it though. So it isn't real instruction. So most of the uninitiated think it is. Why should that offend you? It just makes me shake my head and laugh to myself. If those that don't know any better think that this is what I do, so be it. It has no affect on my own practice, and if someone is interested enough to ask me about it, I'll be glad to explain what real training is like. If they came and performed their little sword routine naked in my front yard, then I might be offended. If they want to fool some poor fellow into paying them money to learn their "genyoowine sword techniques of the samooreye", then it isn't my job to protect those people from themselves. Caveat emptor applies just as much, if not more so, in the martial arts as it does everywhere else.

Don't be offended, just amused.

 

[pstarr]

I disagree. Somebody has to step up and speak the truth. One of the reasons se must now suffer things like "The Final Fu" and that kind of thing is because the real martial arts practitioners didn't step forward and speak out. They stayed in the shadows, chuckling, knowing that what they do is genuine.

But the public doesn't know what's real and what isn't. I think it's our obligation to let them know as best we can.

 

[Don Roley]

I am with pstarr. I would fight any attempt to control people like this, but I will not shy from letting people know that what he does is not up to the standards I have been trained in. And the qualifications of most of these guys are a joke.

But it is true that there are idiots out there that will follow even the most incompetent of teachers. Just look at the following web page and as you laugh, consider that the guy actually thinks he can attract people with what he shows. He would not if students stayed away.

http://s106679294.websitehome.co.uk/dvd.htm

The general public just does not know what is good and what is bad. Instead of sitting back and laughing at these guys as they deserve, I think we should at least give people a chance to hear about the truth. We can't make them make the right choice, but we can help those that try to do the research. If they won't think, then we do not have to feel any guilt. But if we do nothing and people walk in without any knowledge, I can't help but feel a sense of responsibility.

 

[Cthulhu]

Wow...it looks like this guy 'learned' his technique from a book or other series of photos, with no clue as how to move between the positions displayed in the photos.

That, and he has next to no control over his blade.

Cthulhu

I am with pstarr. I would fight any attempt to control people like this, but I will not shy from letting people know that what he does is not up to the standards I have been trained in. And the qualifications of most of these guys are a joke.

But it is true that there are idiots out there that will follow even the most incompetent of teachers. Just look at the following web page and as you laugh, consider that the guy actually thinks he can attract people with what he shows. He would not if students stayed away.

http://s106679294.websitehome.co.uk/dvd.htm

The general public just does not know what is good and what is bad. Instead of sitting back and laughing at these guys as they deserve, I think we should at least give people a chance to hear about the truth. We can't make them make the right choice, but we can help those that try to do the research. If they won't think, then we do not have to feel any guilt. But if we do nothing and people walk in without any knowledge, I can't help but feel a sense of responsibility.

 

[pgsmith]

I disagree. Somebody has to step up and speak the truth. One of the reasons se must now suffer things like "The Final Fu" and that kind of thing is because the real martial arts practitioners didn't step forward and speak out. They stayed in the shadows, chuckling, knowing that what they do is genuine.

Why does somebody have to step up? I don't suffer from "The Final Fu", in fact, I've no idea what it is. Never mind, I just Googled it. (See how easy research is?) That is entertainment, and has no bearing what so ever on anything that I do. For me to be upset over something as silly as "Final Fu" would be like me getting upset over "Last Samurai" because the sword fights were funny. The only reason I can figure for being upset about it is if you are worried that people will think that "Final Fu" is what you are doing. However, if you are worried what others think about your training, then you aren't training hard enough.

But the public doesn't know what's real and what isn't. I think it's our obligation to let them know as best we can.

Why?
The general public has never really known just what it is that swordsmen actually do. You can go to Japan today, and the general public has no idea of anything other than kendo. Why should we take it upon ourselves to attempt to ruin the ideas of the general public, who are far happier with "Last Samurai" and "Highlander" swordsmanship than anything approaching reality.

We can't make them make the right choice, but we can help those that try to do the research.

Don, I think you nailed it right there. Anyone that is truly interested in learning the truth will conduct their own research. It really isn't very hard to gain an understanding of reality, or to find out contact information for people that can help in any sort of research. Any that are interested, I try to help as much as possible. Those that can't be bothered, I leave firmly in their fantasy world. For all of me, the general public is more than welcome to believe whatever they wish. As long as there is a core of dedicated people willing to put in the work to learn our arts, then that is really all that matters. The general public's perception of what I do is unimportant to me.

Just my opinions though!

 

[pstarr]

It's our obligation to speak up. Certainly, there are those who will always choose to follow bozos like this sword-flinging character, but there are also those who are looking for authentic martial arts...and if that's all they ever see, then what? They don't know where to look. There's no special listing in the phone book for good and bad schools. There's no licensing process (which is fine by me - everything the government touches turns to .....)

But if we keep silent, the public - those who are truly interested in learning real martial arts - never hear us! They think that that garbage is what martial arts really are!

And we know better.