UFC 193

[kuniggety]

Rhonda's coach made the assumption that rushing a striker always works.

To Roussey's credit, the rushing in was working as it got her to get Holmes into a headlock twice and a clinch once. She even took Holmes to the ground once, which should've been the winning move for Roussey. It might've been because she took too many blows, I don't know, but her judo just wasn't where it should've been in the fight. It clearly cost her.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

To Roussey's credit, the rushing in was working as it got her to get Holmes into a headlock twice and a clinch once. She even took Holmes to the ground once, which should've been the winning move for Roussey. It might've been because she took too many blows, I don't know, but her judo just wasn't where it should've been in the fight. It clearly cost her.

1) Holm had obviously prepared herself very well for defending the clinch, the headlock, and the armbar long enough to escape.
2) By the time Rousey had gotten her first clinch, she had already been hit hard enough to be hurt and at least mildly concussed. That will take some polish off of anybody's technique.

 

[kuniggety]

1) Holm had obviously prepared herself very well for defending the clinch, the headlock, and the armbar long enough to escape.
2) By the time Rousey had gotten her first clinch, she had already been hit hard enough to be hurt and at least mildly concussed. That will take some polish off of anybody's technique.

Agreed. I'm just not sure how she should've approached it differently. Boxing/striking, while she has gotten better, is not her forte. She rushed and got into the grappling range three times where her strength really lies. She obviously failed at the grappling but that's exactly where she should've been.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To Roussey's credit, the rushing in was working as it got her to get Holmes into a headlock twice and a clinch once. She even took Holmes to the ground once, which should've been the winning move for Roussey. It might've been because she took too many blows, I don't know, but her judo just wasn't where it should've been in the fight. It clearly cost her.

It wasn't working. Watch the fight again. Rousey spent the entire fight chasing Holmes. Had the rushing worked she would have spent most of that time grappling.
Correction: Rousey spent the entire fight chasing Holm, looking awkward with the footwork, and eating punches all because she was stuck on the plan of pressing and rushing in, which is why she stumbled to her knees looking like a clumsy teen with no coordination.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Agreed. I'm just not sure how she should've approached it differently. Boxing/striking, while she has gotten better, is not her forte. She rushed and got into the grappling range three times where her strength really lies. She obviously failed at the grappling but that's exactly where she should've been.

I think what she has to do now is learn to be more scientific about getting inside. The trick is to get to grappling range (possibly repeatedly)without having a concussion by the time she gets there. With previous opponents she was able to just bull rush them and grab the headlock. Holm exposed the weakness of that tactic.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think what she has to do now is learn to be more scientific about getting inside. The trick is to get to grappling range (possibly repeatedly)without having a concussion by the time she gets there. With previous opponents she was able to just bull rush them and grab the headlock. Holm exposed the weakness of that tactic.

Exactly. Even the Gracies don't rush in the way Rousey was rushing in.

 

[Dinkydoo]

Rousey out for 6 months - nothing new here, as per her plans for movie-work, but this makes it official unless a CT Scan can evidence no damage was caused on Saturday.

Joanna J also out with a suspected broken hand

Ronda Rousey suspended 6 months by UFC because of head injury

 

[Dirty Dog]

Rousey out for 6 months - nothing new here, as per her plans for movie-work, but this makes it official unless a CT Scan can evidence no damage was caused on Saturday.

Joanna J also out with a suspected broken hand

Ronda Rousey suspended 6 months by UFC because of head injury

She was knocked out. She has, by definition, a grade III concussion, which won't show up on a CT anyway.
6 months out is a good idea regardless of the CT.
If the CT shows anything, it will be:
1 A fracture, which is entirely recoverable.
2 A bleed or shearing injury, either of which is a damn good reason to retire.
3 One of Holms' toes, still lodged in her face (ok, not really...).

 

[kuniggety]

I think what she has to do now is learn to be more scientific about getting inside. The trick is to get to grappling range (possibly repeatedly)without having a concussion by the time she gets there. With previous opponents she was able to just bull rush them and grab the headlock. Holm exposed the weakness of that tactic.

Agreed. I think the goal should always be to get punched in the face less.

 

[ShotoNoob]

It has nothing to do with kung fu. The closer your hands are to the blocking position of your head, the faster your hands can get to that position. The reality of defense is that if it takes 1 second for my opponent to attack me then I have less than 1 second to recognize the attack and to correctly react to it. Hands up also makes it difficult to attack the head (if the guard is good), because you have to get through the guard. An attack that hits the guard weakens or stops the impact that is going to hit the head.

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Ok, by your sparring adaptation. But your 1st sentence defies traditional CMA.
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In terms of the tactics you want to use in application & present in class.... I validate your application....\
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How are you & boxing brother making out?

 

[Dinkydoo]

She was knocked out. She has, by definition, a grade III concussion, which won't show up on a CT anyway.
6 months out is a good idea regardless of the CT.
If the CT shows anything, it will be:
1 A fracture, which is entirely recoverable.
2 A bleed or shearing injury, either of which is a damn good reason to retire.
3 One of Holms' toes, still lodged in her face (ok, not really...).

I agree man, the bit about the CT wasn't me trying to be a fountain of medical knowledge - it came straight from the article. I have a sacroiliac joint on my left knee, remember

Despite the obvious health implications, I don't think a quick return to fighting after suffering a defeat like that (arguably for the first time), is a good idea. She has some soul searching to do after last weekend because not only did the better opponent on the night win, her self belief in her striking ability, the fight strategy and preparation was wrong. That means what she was being told by her team was incorrect and therefore it seems like some changes need to be made.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I'm far from an expert on the subject.

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Well I don't know what to call it, then. To me, you are very knowledgeable about the grappling arts, such as BJJ & Judo. You've worked hard @ getting accomplished in your style; I believe you are an accomplished practitioner.

There are a lot of skills that go into being good at closing on someone who has that kind of footwork. Lateral movement to cut off the available space rather than pivoting to follow the opponent. Good head movement to avoid getting hit while coming in. Baiting the opponent to attack you first and countering/closing as they strike. Feinting. Having a really, really good understanding of distance.

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See Tony, now you are validating my opinion about you.
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Even if you know what to do, executing it can be difficult.

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That's where the 'art' comes in after 'martial.' Holm really showed the fruits of professional training...IMO.

Of course, I train more from a self-defense perspective so I have a much easier option against someone who is being evasive and backing away. I can just leave.

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Yeah, but you know applied fighting as a generality... You posts about what you do are well presented...IMO. I especially enjoyed some of you perspectives about Judo...

 

[elder999]

That means what she was being told by her team was incorrect and therefore it seems like some changes need to be made.

Not team-one guy. There is a team-it includes guys like Gene LeBell and Gokor Chivichyan, but he's the guy: head coach, principle striking coach, and she's insanely loyal...should be interesting.

 

[ShotoNoob]

The guy produces champions. His sport style training gives them the superior mental clarity.

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I usually don't reply to your posts, sometimes I do to your alter-ego(s).\
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Jackson exploits top talent who are blessed with that before they ever hit his gym.... Even solid UFC rated competitors can get bounced out of Jackson's if he sees someone more to his advantage towards his business success....
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I hate to give Jackson credit... but his team certainly prepared Holm tactically... yet when I congratulated on that.... another MT poster robo-dis-agreed... poor shotonoob....

 

[Dinkydoo]

Not team-one guy. There is a team, but he's the guy: head coach, principle striking coach, and she's insanely loyal...should be interesting.

Okay, cool. I don't really know much about the structure of her team or any of the politics, just that fighting is a team endeavour - whether that team is an 'official' fight team, or the implicit one consisting of you and your instructor(s).

It will be interesting to see what develops over the next few weeks

 

[ShotoNoob]

A striker who has no concept of how grappling operates will typically be at a disadvantage. However, when it comes to MMA, it's highly unlikely that you're going to encounter anyone who has no concept of grappling, or how to counter it.

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Blah, blah, thread continuation ad infinitude alert.... "booble," did I saw "booble?" ROTF

 

[ShotoNoob]

To Roussey's credit, the rushing in was working as it got her to get Holmes into a headlock twice and a clinch once. She even took Holmes to the ground once, which should've been the winning move for Roussey. It might've been because she took too many blows, I don't know, but her judo just wasn't where it should've been in the fight. It clearly cost her.

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YEp, yep, and yep.

 

[ShotoNoob]

The HOLM UPSET was one I didn't see coming.... though I noted Holm's potential.... I misjudged the level of skill & strength she executed against Rousey.... This was a once in 5-year MMA event. I was rooting for Holm personally because of the striking style match up....
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Thanks Holly for the vindication / validation of poor Shotonoob....

 

[drop bear]

\
I usually don't reply to your posts, sometimes I do to your alter-ego(s).\
|
Jackson exploits top talent who are blessed with that before they ever hit his gym.... Even solid UFC rated competitors can get bounced out of Jackson's if he sees someone more to his advantage towards his business success....
\
I hate to give Jackson credit... but his team certainly prepared Holm tactically... yet when I congratulated on that.... another MT poster robo-dis-agreed... poor shotonoob....

\
I usually don't reply to your posts, sometimes I do to your alter-ego(s).\
|
Jackson exploits top talent who are blessed with that before they ever hit his gym.... Even solid UFC rated competitors can get bounced out of Jackson's if he sees someone more to his advantage towards his business success....
\
I hate to give Jackson credit... but his team certainly prepared Holm tactically... yet when I congratulated on that.... another MT poster robo-dis-agreed... poor shotonoob....

When your job is to turn out mma superstars. I am sure you go for the best basic talent.

But he does train some not so top tier guys. Kyle noke. Is a greg Jackson guy.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Despite the obvious health implications, I don't think a quick return to fighting after suffering a defeat like that (arguably for the first time), is a good idea. She has some soul searching to do after last weekend because not only did the better opponent on the night win, her self belief in her striking ability, the fight strategy and preparation was wrong. That means what she was being told by her team was incorrect and therefore it seems like some changes need to be made.

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Actually, most all of MMA striking training is incorrect for actual competition.... I can refer you to Ja Gow's threads, videos & post for a start...
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Everyone is so quick to blame Tarverdyan. Yet what he trains is identical to 90% of what MMA camps are doing.... Some exceptions other than Jackson exist. Nonetheless you are now criticizing precisely what I have been criticizing about MMA striking training all along.
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Edmond Tarverdyan is now just the lighting rod 'cause Honda bombed.... MMA conventional training and Honda herself deserve the lionshare of blame... not Taverdyan.... that's the scapegoat easy way out for MT.