Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
BINGO!!!
Two schools pull books after protest
- Thread starter Big Don
- Start date
BINGO!!!
Just as a question (and then I'm on my way to purchase these books for myself) ...
Exactly how much thought do you put into the fact that your children see a male and female couple every day? They don't think twice about it - it's normal for them. You don't school a kindy in the specifics of your relationship but you tell them fairy tales of princes and princesses.
If the only things in the world you saw were happiness and wealth, what would your perspective on the world be?
Hm. Okay, how about this:
My youngest son was born here in the PNW and for a time we lived in a predominately white neighborhood (rare for me). He was almost 1 year old before he saw his first African-American person. We were in the check line at a store, he in the cart seat while I loaded the goodies on the conveyor. This gentleman was particularly dark-skinned. I don't think I've seen my son's eyes bigger. He stared and stared and stared at that man.
The man appeared a bit annoyed at the situation but said nothing. I felt quite conflicted, didn't know what to do, so I just looked at my boy, looked at the man and smiled. He smiled back. My son looked at the two of us smiling at each other and smiled too.
It was a moment of surprise, challenge and acceptance.
Later in school he would come home telling me of the "darker skinned" people in his class. I thought it so interesting how he would describe the color of other people's skin and started to wonder if he was the minority in his class (SO many people had darker skin than he). Upon visiting I found a diverse group of children of all persuasions and he told me one day that his class was a rainbow of people - a reference I'm sure he got from a book in Kindergarten.
So ... my youngest, from exposure and a book celebrating diversity, learned the acceptance of diversity. He did not require the information about MLK Jr's assassination, pictures of hangings in Mississippi, the history of the Ku Klux Klan.
All he required was verification of the acceptance of diversity in more than one social norm.
You might say, "well that's a race issue, not a sexuality issue and that's different." But in a child's eyes, it really isn't. What a child - who has no knowledge of sex, sexual behavior nor the moralities engaged therein - sees is *people* in pairs (or not) raising children. Breeding tolerance means if they see three fairy tales ... one where the couple is male and female, one where the couple is male and male, and another where the couple is female and female, they will put together a norm of social acceptance.
When they're old enough to learn about sex and homosexuality, THEN those lessons can begin. Until then ... why slaughter their innocence and desire for acceptance by pointing to a book and telling them the princes are naughty and they are too young to know about that evil yet?
Exactly how much thought do you put into the fact that your children see a male and female couple every day? They don't think twice about it - it's normal for them. You don't school a kindy in the specifics of your relationship but you tell them fairy tales of princes and princesses.
If the only things in the world you saw were happiness and wealth, what would your perspective on the world be?
Hm. Okay, how about this:
My youngest son was born here in the PNW and for a time we lived in a predominately white neighborhood (rare for me). He was almost 1 year old before he saw his first African-American person. We were in the check line at a store, he in the cart seat while I loaded the goodies on the conveyor. This gentleman was particularly dark-skinned. I don't think I've seen my son's eyes bigger. He stared and stared and stared at that man.
The man appeared a bit annoyed at the situation but said nothing. I felt quite conflicted, didn't know what to do, so I just looked at my boy, looked at the man and smiled. He smiled back. My son looked at the two of us smiling at each other and smiled too.
It was a moment of surprise, challenge and acceptance.
Later in school he would come home telling me of the "darker skinned" people in his class. I thought it so interesting how he would describe the color of other people's skin and started to wonder if he was the minority in his class (SO many people had darker skin than he). Upon visiting I found a diverse group of children of all persuasions and he told me one day that his class was a rainbow of people - a reference I'm sure he got from a book in Kindergarten.
So ... my youngest, from exposure and a book celebrating diversity, learned the acceptance of diversity. He did not require the information about MLK Jr's assassination, pictures of hangings in Mississippi, the history of the Ku Klux Klan.
All he required was verification of the acceptance of diversity in more than one social norm.
You might say, "well that's a race issue, not a sexuality issue and that's different." But in a child's eyes, it really isn't. What a child - who has no knowledge of sex, sexual behavior nor the moralities engaged therein - sees is *people* in pairs (or not) raising children. Breeding tolerance means if they see three fairy tales ... one where the couple is male and female, one where the couple is male and male, and another where the couple is female and female, they will put together a norm of social acceptance.
When they're old enough to learn about sex and homosexuality, THEN those lessons can begin. Until then ... why slaughter their innocence and desire for acceptance by pointing to a book and telling them the princes are naughty and they are too young to know about that evil yet?
JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
Shesulsa how does that saying go "Truth is stranger than fiction"
:highfive:
LOL! How about Truth is Queerer than fiction?
Race is something a person is born with. You see it with your eyes. Someones sexual orientation is not. I roomed with guys exclusively for about 10 years. There is something different between that and living with a gay partner. To the eyes of a child, there is probably no difference. However, when giving the label "parents", you ascribe something different. Its a subtle form of social programming. You call it social acceptance. I call it programming. These types of moral judgments are best left to the HOME. Not a social institution like school.
In the same vein, why start your social programming so early? Why should we point to a book and the princes and tell our children that is OK to go around kissing other guys? With something that might be objectionable (like those silly book titles in my previous posts), let the families be the judges as to right/wrong and when to introduce.
I think most people objecting here are in the same vein. LEAVE THIS FOR THE HOME.
Of course you realise that small boys in particular really don't like small girls and asking boys to even hold hands with a girl so you can walk along a road on a school trip is to invite outrage from said small boys? The thought of two men marrying probably seems quite attractive to small boys! Imagine having to kiss a girl, oh yuck!
Remember children of this age won't imagine marriage as it really is, they would imagine two men being married would be great fun where you can play with cars all days, not wash and not eat vegtables.
I rather imagine small girls aren't much taken with the idea of marrying a boy either.
Remember that joke where little Tommy asks his mother where he comes from and his mother launches into a description of the sexual act, telling him how the eggs are fertilised etc. Little Tommy looks at her very bored and says no mummy, Johnnie says he comes from London, where do I come from?
Remember children of this age won't imagine marriage as it really is, they would imagine two men being married would be great fun where you can play with cars all days, not wash and not eat vegtables.
I rather imagine small girls aren't much taken with the idea of marrying a boy either.
Remember that joke where little Tommy asks his mother where he comes from and his mother launches into a description of the sexual act, telling him how the eggs are fertilised etc. Little Tommy looks at her very bored and says no mummy, Johnnie says he comes from London, where do I come from?
That's to be debated but probably not here.
It's only different if you both are gay.
All learning is programming. You teach your children to wash their hands before eating, don't you? That's programming. You train them to use the toilet - that's programming. You teach them to say Please and Thank you - that's programming. Whatever you teach a child outside of 1+1=2 and the color blue is called "blue" and that "b" comes after "a" ... is programming.
Again - morals are always taught at home. You may disapprove of homosexuality but, nevertheless, there are gays everywhere you go. Your dentist might be gay. A coworker might be gay. It's all around you whether you like it or not. The point here is ... no matter what you feel about homosexuality, there will be gay people wherever you go and you can either ruin your life by programming yourself to be nauseated at the thought of what gay people do in private when you pass them in the store or drop that folder off in their inbox ... or you can accept they are here, get used to it, and take responsibility for your own feelings on the matter.
See above.
Why should we point to a book with princes and princesses and tell our children that is OK to go around kissing at all?
Well goodness, then we need to rid the schools of ALL diversity acceptance materials then. Let's denounce MLK day, presidents' day, Valentines Day (it is, after all, about love and sweethearts - too controversial), Christmas should be gone unless we give breaks for Ramadan, Kwanzaa, Yom Kippur, etc, etc. OH! and EASTER! Yes! We need to get rid of spring break because Easter is a Christian holiday and is religion-based.
Prayer in school - stay gone. God in the pledge - get it outta there. Girls in skirts and dresses - all kids should wear the same thing - polo shirts and pants for everyone.
Let's shave everyone's heads so that bald people can talk to their children at home about the follicularly challenged population and the moral implications.
When we're talking about children that young, you simply have to be able to moderate the adult knowledge in the child's realm. Balance, folks. Of course you have to be a parent ... but if you are telling your child that being gay is wrong and evil and they go to school and see kids naturally exploring their curiosity they are programmed (wink) to think that any urge along those same lines in themseles is wrong and evil. And if that ain't an unhealthy mind-****, I don't know what is.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
theres' my point.
The lesson that they are trying to get across will be lost on them.
Much like the "what do you do with the banana after sex" question that was put forth by I believe a 6 year old in a sex education class NYS was trying to make a requirement in 1st grade. It was an example of safe sex and they were putting a condom on a banana and beyond it being a banana with a rubber thing on it they had NO idea what the teacher was talking about. They kind of gave up on the idea after that.
Now you want to teach that in Junior high you might be on to something but in first grade...
I haven't read the book, but it seems to me to be a fairy tale not not about sex education, but about accepting and respecting differences, I have to ask at what age is it appropriate to teach that?
But again - you're putting your knowledge of the homosexual act on the table.
When you were five years old and crawled into bed with Mom and Dad, did you ask Mom if she wore the spurs that night? Did you notice the empty condom wrapper on the floor and immediately know your parents had bumped uglies the night before? Did you know what the wet spot was?
You didn't know any of these things - but you sought out your parent's bed because they were two people who loved each other and who loved you. That's all you knew. And if they were the same gender and you were home-schooled you likely wouldn't have known the difference.
So the idea that showing two princes together next to a prince and princess together is really any different than showing a black child and her puppy as opposed to a white boy and his puppy ... really makes no sense in the mind of a child.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,692
- Reaction score
- 176
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Actually no I am not putting your knowledge of the homosexual act on the table I am putting an absolute lack of knowledge of a homosesxual act or any other sexual act for that matter.. (on the table or anyplace else :EG
You are making my point as well.
I have not read the book in question but depending on how it presents itself it may be as I said be for not age appropriate for a 5 year old and that can be based on content meaning to explicit or based on content meaning it would make as much sense to walk in to a class of 5 year olds and start teaching Differential Equations.
Now if you really want to walk in and teach Differential equations to a 5 year old go for it, just don’t get mad at them when they don’t understand it. And don’t be surprised if they are not ready for 1st grade math because someone spent to much time trying to teach them Diffy Q.
Have a wander over here: http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~physedu/mapletutorial/tutorials/diff_eqs/intro.html
I got more than my fair share of both differential equations and integration during my economics degree.
I got more than my fair share of both differential equations and integration during my economics degree
.
Cheers! I have a sort of dyslexia where numbers are concerned, I have O and A levels and a degree but absolutely nothing in even basic arithmetic! the teachers tried bless them but nothing stuck!
At least though I can say the teachers did their best and the education my generation received was a good one. the government is so set on targets that the teachers have little time now to actually teach any subject! They spend most of their time on admin.
At least though I can say the teachers did their best and the education my generation received was a good one. the government is so set on targets that the teachers have little time now to actually teach any subject! They spend most of their time on admin.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I see you have already been pointed in the right direction for a good answer; I likely would have just said its one of the quickest ways possible to get a migraine
You know... I don't know
"Auuuuuuuugh" [as Xue gets cast into the Gorge of Eternal Peril]
