TSD vs TKD stances

[Zepp]

Originally posted by Shinzu
the fact is that every association is going to do things a bit different in the dojang, but on the street you have to do what works for you. so practicing kicks without deep stances has it's advantages also. the best way to adapt to things is to train many different ways with the same techniques.

it just makes you the better in the end!

Amen brother!

 

[BrandiJo]

in my TKD class they stress deep and long stances ...im constantly getting told to fix mine so im not sure maybe its just your school or something???(or maybe my school? )

 

[TigerWoman]

In our school, WTF style TKD, Taeguek forms, we learn all stances. The first form we use, Key Bong Hyung is all long stances. Long and deep, meaning body low, front leg/knee bent with the lower half of the leg perpendicular to the floor, feet l-1/2 shoulders apart, back leg straight with the knee locked, heel down and foot angled 45°, weight mostly on the front leg. From that position, it is required to step forward into another of the same stance and punch, then transfer back to the hind foot without the foot coming down pivot and go into the opposite side long stance. This is not easy for the beginner but is very important to learn early to gain strength, balance, and agility, while learning the correct form. BTW, this is not a fighting form, not used for sparring, only for poomse.

Also, the walking stance is shorter and is the same length as if you are walking normally. Not much walking stance after Taeguek#4. Most of the Taegueks have a combination of stances includiing cat stance, back stance and horseback stance. A few have only long stances which involve kicking from a long deep stance into the kick- front, round and side, slowly becoming more difficult as higher kicks and pivots are required. TW

 

[Mark Jorgensen]

I agree that a differentiation needs to be made between length and depth...

I teach TSD, and I can't tell you how often I've seen people mistake one for the other. deep stances are important for the reasons mentioned, but lengthening stance too much in an attempt to get depth leaves you unbalanced, unstable, and immobile.

I blame it on competition forms to be honest. I can't tell you how often I've seen ridiculously long stances, to the point that the practitioner has to readjust before theycan even move...they end up displaying a form that has stances of many different lengths and depths, with poor posture and body mechanics, and very rarely are able to finish teh form in the same place they began it.

I actually deduct points for this, because I think it displays a lack of understanding in regards to stance...but I'm amazed at the number of people who encourage it and thinkit looks good...

Ideally, I think all stances ought to be about the same length and depth...this maximizes mobility, ability to transition from one stance to the next, and power in delivery of technique.

It sees like the biggest victim is front stance...which is often misunderstood to begin with, but I digress....

I'm very tired of seeing front stance so long and off balanced that the student can't even move without readjusting, and can be tipped over with one finger...I'm tired of seeing horse riding stances with backsides sticking out....it really has become a problem, but it's oneinstructors should be fixing, not encouraging...

 

[BrandiJo]

my insturctor is always on my case about my stances and it sounds like they agree with you UGH i do way to many pushups for them

 

[Miles]

In our school, WTF style TKD, Taeguek forms, we learn all stances. ....

Also, the walking stance is shorter and is the same length as if you are walking normally. Not much walking stance after Taeguek#4. Most of the Taegueks have a combination of stances includiing cat stance, back stance and horseback stance. A few have only long stances which involve kicking from a long deep stance into the kick- front, round and side, slowly becoming more difficult as higher kicks and pivots are required. TW

TW, you are correct that the walking stance is simply the length of a step. And the front stance (ap kubi) is only 1/2 step longer than walking stance (ap seogi). It really is not a very deep stance at all. Some of the folks have said that stances vary from TKD school to TKD school-this should not be the case if they are adhering to the Kukkiwon's standards.

Miles

 

[Hwoarang_tkd26]

Hiya Dave.

I like the deeper stances better, but I now know that the TKD stance is for sport

I think that I must dissagree with this as well.
IMO, short stances work the best for kicking, I have tryed kicking in a deep stance and it just simply doesn't feel right.
I can see how a deep stance will generate more power for punching or other hand techniques, but just like others have said in this forum: everything has it's place and it's up to you to figure out when to use it and what works for you.
But let me tell you how I would use both stances if it were "real life" as others have mentioned it, first of all I must tell you my philosify on the stances:

Ok, the short stance IMO is best for speed (in general), but dont underestimate the short stance because there are certain techniques that can be thrown (if properly) from a short stance that can be "devestating"
Then the deep stance IMO is best for power, but from what I can see the more power that is generated, the slower the technique is (in general).
So having said that, let me get back to the "real life" situation.
I would (personaly) start out in a short stance and hit my opponent/enemy/attacker with quick strikes just enough to "faze" them, then in the short amount of time they are trying to recover switch to deep stance and hit them with something hard enough to take them "out".

This is somewhat like a boxer, the boxer does quick jabs at his opponent then when the opponent is fazed, he will do an uppercut or some power strike to knock them out.
I Know that there are many out there that would argue against my philosify, bu this is just how I see it.

- Hwoarang_tkd26

 

[Marginal]

If you've never really trained with deep stances, then it's hard to practice them for half an hour one day and the credibly claim that they're too slow.

 

[Hwoarang_tkd26]

If you've never really trained with deep stances, then it's hard to practice them for half an hour one day and the credibly claim that they're too slow.

hmm... somehow I sense that this post is sort of directed towards my last post on the thread, and if I am correct about this then let me say this much, I never said that the deep stances were "too slow", I only ment to bring out the idea that they are slower in comparison to short stances (in general). I apologize if anyone found my thread somewhat misleading from my original point that I was trying to make.
Yes you are correct, I dont regularly practice "deep stance", it's just that I believe what I see, and from what I have seen deep stances tend to be a little slower and a little more powerful (in general).

 

[Marginal]

Nah. It applies equally to the idea that TKD is or should be solely defined by the Kukkiwon.

 

[TigerWoman]

it's just that I believe what I see, and from what I have seen deep stances tend to be a little slower and a little more powerful (in general).

We practice deep stances quite a bit as a white-yellow-orange belt as that is the basis for most of the forms. Once you have a practice of 30-40 minutes all long, deep stances, and especially when you haven't had much of that kind of practice, your muscles will be screaming. Doing alot of that practice and kicking from that long stance shows alot of power because in order to do that, those muscles have to be developed. And not only that, balance, coordination, agility to go from long stance to kick, transfer without touching to the opposite side long stance and then kick high, with power and hold the kicks. Those kicks are not supposed to be slow, they are snapped fast, but they are held at extension for a second. Those that don't practice alot can't do it and it shows in testing and tournaments. If a student can do that, developed through form, what can his kick do when delivered in normal fighting stance? (fighting stance is not as deep, balanced or weight forward or back) Well, it is much more powerful than those that didn't go to the effort of practicing the long stances.

BTW, our long stance is shoulder length + 1/2 more apart - like a railroad track going vertically from your front to your back-between your legs. The length, how far your legs go out is approximately two walking stances-how far you would normally step. The lower part of the forward leg is vertical at about 90° with the knee bent. The rear leg is extended straight (knee not bent at all) with the heel on the floor. The weight is on the forward leg hence why is called the forward stance. Try that and kick from it, go into another forward stance, then without putting your foot down transfer to the other side, forward stance in perfect form. It does take practice and all the other stuff I mentioned. TW

 

[Miles]

Nah. It applies equally to the idea that TKD is or should be solely defined by the Kukkiwon.

What is TKD to you?

What role, if any, do you think the Kukkiwon serves in the promulgation and standardization of TKD?

Miles

 

[DuneViking]

Our stances evolve over time of the student, as well as having evolved over the time of the art. From Um Uoon Kyu's Korean Tae Kwon Do Association of America, headed by E.B Sell in the early 70's, to our present organization-WMTKD, we learned what is commonly now called a front stance, as a square stance. To this day, I use the term, and when teaching students, I may gently push them from the side when it is too narrow, forcing them to take a step to regain stability, inevitably they step closer to a square rather than the long over-extended rectangle they started with. As the student progresses the size of the square shrinks a bit, until at dan rank it is slightly over shoulder width on a side for the most part. As for the walking stance, we simply shorten the square stance a bit more, and never lock the forward leg at the knee, for obvious reasons.

Considering the back or rear stance, we may use longer deeper stances for "tournament" form preparation only. Fighting and self-defense are different. We stress approximately 1 to 1 1/2 the length of one's foot, with 80% of the weight on the rear leg, allowing the front foot to kick without the telegraphic weight shifting.

The fighting stance is as the rear stance above. The Side stance may vary a bit from 2x to 1 1/2 times shoulder length.

Finally, we do not blindly follow WTF nor Kukkiwon styles, but temper things with practicality.

 

[karatekid1975]

Wow! This thread is two years old and still going LOL. I never told anyone how I fixed the problem.

Anyways, I asked my instructor about the stances, and he basically explained them like DuneViking did. I practice it this way now, because that's how I am being taught. It's not bad as I thought it would be

 

[DuneViking]

Wow! This thread is two years old and still going LOL. I never told anyone how I fixed the problem.

Anyways, I asked my instructor about the stances, and he basically explained them like DuneViking did. I practice it this way now, because that's how I am being taught. It's not bad as I thought it would be

Great, glad to hear your issue is resolved!

 

[MichiganTKD]

From white belt to 1st Dan, our stances are very similar to Tang Soo Do or older style Tae Kwon Do. We do not practice walking stance outside of free fighting or basic kicking. Basics use traditional stances. The reason is that Tae Kwon Do basics, from the stances up to how you execute technique, are designed to strengthen your body from the ground up. Walking stances are great for speed and mobility, but they will not make your legs and hips strong.
Even after black belt, we do not use walking stances in forms unless it specifically calls for it. The stances remain traditional.

 

[karatekid1975]

I'm going to hi-jack my own thread hehehehe.

Anyways, what forms you do, MichiganTKD? I'm just asking, because we do the taegeuk forms and there are a lot of walking stances in those forms. At first, it was hard for me to get used to (coming from TSD and all).