TRIGONDO - new martial art against multiple attackers. NEW NEW

[Buka]

Discussions about fighting multiple attackers sometimes put the cart before the horse. Before you can consider fighting multiples, you have to know how to fight. Real fight.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Before you can consider fighting multiples, you have to know how to fight. Real fight.

Also you need to have enough tools in your toolbox that can be used to end a fight (such as knock down, or take down).

In our MA training, we try to develop those tools and use it effectively.

 

[Buka]

Also you need to have enough tools in your toolbox that can be used to end a fight (such as knock down, or take down).

In our MA training, we try to develop those tools and use it effectively.

Yes. That's knowing how to fight.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Someone cannot say that theese styles are not effective because of shadowboxing.

If that's all they have, then you can.

 

[jayoliver00]

See this video, jump ahead to 4:40, to see a more realistic look at what multiple attackers would look like:

These videos were marketing vids. meant to make the Marines look good.

Back then, the UFC was struggling financially; nearing bankrupt. The US Marines/Army were their best paid advertiser. It was win-win as the US Military needed recruits for the never-ending wars post 9/11; plenty of grunt material, watching NHB/UFC.

Any of those UFC Fighters could've just head kicked them, and that would've been it. Urijah Faber was saying on Rogan's podcast that it was pretty easy doing those Marine exercises.

 

[wab25]

These videos were marketing vids. meant to make the Marines look good.

Back then, the UFC was struggling financially; nearing bankrupt. The US Marines/Army were their best paid advertiser. It was win-win as the US Military needed recruits for the never-ending wars post 9/11; plenty of grunt material, watching NHB/UFC.

Any of those UFC Fighters could've just head kicked them, and that would've been it. Urijah Faber was saying on Rogan's podcast that it was pretty easy doing those Marine exercises.

I was using that to show a more realistic example of multiple attacker training... at least an example that was more realistic than watching the choreographed movies shown earlier. Are you saying that it is more realistic when the bad guys all wait in line and attack one at a time?

 

[jayoliver00]

I was using that to show a more realistic example of multiple attacker training... at least an example that was more realistic than watching the choreographed movies shown earlier. Are you saying that it is more realistic when the bad guys all wait in line and attack one at a time?

I was informing you that what you chose, was not "a more realistic example of multiple attacker training", as it was UFC Fighters going easy on those Marines.

This one is more decent, (near the end 2 on 1):

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was informing you that what you chose, was not "a more realistic example of multiple attacker training", as it was UFC Fighters going easy on those Marines.

This one is more decent, (near the end 2 on 1):

That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited.

 

[jayoliver00]

That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited.

Yeah they went easy on the girl; unless you want to see her get knocked out or something. Women are usually just smaller & weaker.

The guys went harder on each other thought. It's still not full power but way closer to the real thing than that UFC fighters vs. Marines, light sparring.

 

[wab25]

The guys went harder on each other thought. It's still not full power but way closer to the real thing than that UFC fighters vs. Marines, light sparring.

The issue is not with how hard they are hitting. The issue is that with your video, no one is attacking from behind and no one is attacking while the person is engaged with another attacker. With the UFC guys at the marine core, up on the trail, the UFC guys are immediately hit from behind and attacked while they are engaged with another fighter. The UFC guys are facing marines who are all attacking at once. Your video shows attackers waiting their turn to attack... like they do in movies.

 

[jayoliver00]

The issue is not with how hard they are hitting. The issue is that with your video, no one is attacking from behind and no one is attacking while the person is engaged with another attacker. With the UFC guys at the marine core, up on the trail, the UFC guys are immediately hit from behind and attacked while they are engaged with another fighter. The UFC guys are facing marines who are all attacking at once. Your video shows attackers waiting their turn to attack... like they do in movies.

Dude c'mon, they had Gonzaga walked right in the middle of 2 Marines (at close range like the 1 behind him is invisible) to get clobbered, lol. Even right before that, you heard the Marine Instructor say, "no head kick", b/c those Marines would get dropped. And they were training with foam clubs, making it much easier to to get in on someone. I mean, why? Basically Marine Larping.

If you've sparred 2 on 1 vs. trained people (not even fighters yet), you'd know that there are certain dynamics involved.

a) the one alone will usually throw a lot harder as they're under a lot of stress, esp. cardio.
b) the team will usually go lighter as courtesy.
c) this wasn't tap sparring, but light to medium power, which could still KO that girl.

The big guy was the best and the others didn't want to get KO'ed going in like untrained people.

This was at the early stages of this MMA/Krav gym, so they weren't even good yet; ie. not lining up the attackers, pref. the weaker, female in the middle. But still more realistic as this is usually how trained people spar & fight.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah they went easy on the girl; unless you want to see her get knocked out or something. Women are usually just smaller & weaker.

The guys went harder on each other thought. It's still not full power but way closer to the real thing than that UFC fighters vs. Marines, light sparring.

I'm not talking at all about the power used. I'm talking about waiting turns. Light sparring with real intent is more likely to show weaknesses in defense in this context than harder contact without the intent to overwhelm.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Dude c'mon, they had Gonzaga walked right in the middle of 2 Marines (at close range like the 1 behind him is invisible) to get clobbered, lol. Even right before that, you heard the Marine Instructor say, "no head kick", b/c those Marines would get dropped. And they were training with foam clubs, making it much easier to to get in on someone. I mean, why? Basically Marine Larping.

If you've sparred 2 on 1 vs. trained people (not even fighters yet), you'd know that there are certain dynamics involved.

a) the one alone will usually throw a lot harder as they're under a lot of stress, esp. cardio.
b) the team will usually go lighter as courtesy.
c) this wasn't tap sparring, but light to medium power, which could still KO that girl.

The big guy was the best and the others didn't want to get KO'ed going in like untrained people.

This was at the early stages of this MMA/Krav gym, so they weren't even good yet; ie. not lining up the attackers, pref. the weaker, female in the middle. But still more realistic as this is usually how trained people spar & fight.

Marines are tough for sure. Israeli warriors, sure.

But they're not the toughest creatures out there. Marines don't do hand to hand combat nowadays do they? They push buttons at a distance.

My take on Krav Maga (have I ever given one? I forget) is that it's a good effort, a nice mix of material, if somebody was to dabble very superficially in martial arts. Obviously if you go deeper, you find other, older, cooler arts.

That said, everyone I ever met who did Krav Maga was a sporto. That was two people.

 

[jayoliver00]

I'm not talking at all about the power used. I'm talking about waiting turns. Light sparring with real intent is more likely to show weaknesses in defense in this context than harder contact without the intent to overwhelm.

Have you sparred 1 on 2 like this? You go in too hard against someone much better, then you'll likely get dropped. The girl was prob. very new at this kind of Krav exercise also; albeit she had good skills in KB.

 

[jayoliver00]

Marines are tough for sure. Israeli warriors, sure.

But they're not the toughest creatures out there. Marines don't do hand to hand combat nowadays do they? They push buttons at a distance.

In a H2H fight, they usually suck if all they had was their training in the Marines, compared to trained fighters with even just 2 years of training MMA as a hobbyist.

My take on Krav Maga (have I ever given one? I forget) is that it's a good effort, a nice mix of material, if somebody was to dabble very superficially in martial arts. Obviously if you go deeper, you find other, older, cooler arts.

That said, everyone I ever met who did Krav Maga was a sporto. That was two people.

Krav Maga at Level 1 is usually all the buzz words & glamour of Israeli Force this and Israeli Force that. Level 2 and up is when it becomes more and more just like MMA Lite but with weapons training. So it is legit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Have you sparred 1 on 2 like this? You go in too hard against someone much better, then you'll likely get dropped. The girl was prob. very new at this kind of Krav exercise also; albeit she had good skills in KB.

You put this up as an example of something more realistic. And your response to the criticism is...odd. I didn't say anything about her going in harder, just like I didn't say anything about the level of power used in my previous comment.

This doesn't reflect actual likely dynamics of a situation like this. There are ways to keep those dynamics, even with a beginner. I've seen start-stop drills (gives the subject a chance to evaluate every few seconds), slower-speed drills (so they aren't overwhelmed by the speed of the attacks), and a couple of others. This drill really just shows them not giving her feedback when she makes a mistake. A tap on the back of the head when they turns their back on an attacker lets them know they messed up.

It's okay for beginners to fail in an exercise. That's how progression works.

 

[wab25]

Have you sparred 1 on 2 like this?

I have.... in Karate, Jujitsu and Aikido.... It is very easy to see the attackers waiting their turn and not attacking from the back, even when the defender gives their back to the attackers. As Gerry says, they should be attacked from behind, whether it be a tap or a grab... not to injure, but to show the failure.

Dude c'mon, they had Gonzaga walked right in the middle of 2 Marines (at close range like the 1 behind him is invisible) to get clobbered, lol.

This is because Gonzaga trains for UFC fighting... which is one on one, with a referee and rules. He found his opponent, and stayed focused on that one opponent. There used to be video of two UFC fighters that were in a street fight, one did the same thing, focused on his opponent and never saw the other guy run up behind him with a 2x4 and put him in the hospital. If you watched the video, before they took it down, you would have seen this guy do what Gonzaga did, only he was not hit with a foam padded club.

Whats interesting is that when you watch the marines critique Gonzaga, it was not that he focused on just one opponent that they had an issue with. It was that he sparred with him. In a multiple attacker situation, you are going to die, but he should have gone after one, full force instantly, so that the next marine coming up the hill would have one less attacker to deal with.

Have you ever watched a real fight, where the wrong guy gets the upper hand? When the buddies join in to help out the guy that was supposed to win? No one waits their turn, attacks from behind are usually the ones that end it and no one waits for the guy to finish what is is doing to the opponent before they attack.

 

[TheArtofDave]

That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited.

That's still two people going easy on someone. Her first response was followed by her turning her back on one of them, and he stood and waited.

This is a demo to show how the techniques work because in a real fight anything goes to get away from your attacker or attackers.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

@TheArtofDave You seem to have gotten your reply into your signature, somehow.

 

[SgtBarnes]

Dear Martial Art Friends,

i am the founder of the martial art - Trigondo, and want to kindly deliver you some informations and video beside a manual for this interestion style.

It is a system that can be performed on a very small place.

A couple of years ago i have deposit the system on a legal copyright for founder and also designed a special budo weapon
for it.

It's worth it. Believe me.

Video 1 :

You can download a complete trigondo manual in PDF in the description of this video.

Video 2 :

Greetings
Sensei_Trigondo

Oh man...