Transferring to another school! (need advice)

[TigerWoman]

That's why I said it wouldn't matter that much to keep AT's green belt either.
Besides when it came to sparring, he would be matched more appropriately to skill level. And the newbies coming in wouldn't compare themselves and quit.

It all comes out in the wash, as they say. We had a Karate black belt, 2nd degree, join our school, but he had done ITF TKD as a child and had eventually gotten his black. Our master put him high since he joined TKD before any of us, and he kept his belt. Fine with all of us, he was obviously a black belt but he had all of the WTF system to learn to advance to 2nd. TW

 

[karatekid1975]

Cali, good question. The way I look at it is this. If someone is a color belt, it's much easier to start over (I've been there, that's how I came up with this). But if you are a black belt (Congrads on your 2nd dan ), it should be up to you and the instructor to decide. Obviously if someone has a BB from a McDojang, and can't do what is required, they go back to white or lower rank. But if someone knows their stuff, it should be up to that person and their new instructor. Just my humble opinion

 

[ave_turuta]

That's why I said it wouldn't matter that much to keep AT's green belt either.
Besides when it came to sparring, he would be matched more appropriately to skill level.

Ave Turuta kindly says.... I'M A GIRL!!!! :uhyeah:

Take care! :asian:
A.T.

 

[Rick J]

Cali, good question. The way I look at it is this. If someone is a color belt, it's much easier to start over (I've been there, that's how I came up with this). But if you are a black belt (Congrads on your 2nd dan ), it should be up to you and the instructor to decide. Obviously if someone has a BB from a McDojang, and can't do what is required, they go back to white or lower rank. But if someone knows their stuff, it should be up to that person and their new instructor. Just my humble opinion

KarateKid, what constitutes a McDojang BB? Is a Kukkiwon certificate from a McDojang recognized as a BB? How do you know if you're at a McDojang? Curious.

Our school had a 9 year old 1st Poom come in last winter and after a couple months the GM wanted her to wear a blue belt since he felt her kicking wasn't up to the level of the best blue belts in the school at the time. I spoke with her Dad and he said that there was no way she was going to wear a blue belt when she had a Kukkiwon 1st Poom. He also said that the school they went to in Okinawa stressed forms much more than kicking/sparring techniques (which we really focus on). It seems that different schools can leave one lacking in certain techniques depending on what the focus is at the school you are looking to move to.

It's funny now, but those blue belts are now 2nd Gups and still the best in the school and our current blue belts couldn't hold a candle to that 1st Poom girl.

Take Care,

Rick.

 

[karatekid1975]

KarateKid, what constitutes a McDojang BB? Is a Kukkiwon certificate from a McDojang recognized as a BB? How do you know if you're at a McDojang? Curious.

Good question, Rick. Some McDojangs will pass ANYONE as long as they pay money. I do WTF, so it's not an issue if it's Kukkiwon or not.

It depends on the instructor. Is this instructor in it for the money, and doesn't give a flying **** about ones technique? Will they pass this person for a BB even if they are no better than a white belt because they pay $$$? I don't mind an instructor that wants to make a living, but it's the ones who charge $$$ for everything, and don't teach you crap. You can tell by their (the student's) technique. It doesn't matter what style they are from.

In my short 5 years in MA, I seen it happen. I was at a McDojang for a year. Yes, it was TKD. But it wasn't the art, it was the instructor. I had to leave there. I was only a blue belt at the time, and I could whoop on most of their so-called BB's. I found out that they have never sparred! A BB that never sparred ?!?!?! WTF!?!?!?!? And their technique was no better than mine and I was a rookie!

... That's a McDojang.

I still do TKD, and my school does charge a bit because of the high rents/taxes up here. But, at least, my isntructor cares about us, and wants us to be better than he was/is. Or, at least, push ourselves more than we though we could. Man, he is picky about technique also LOL.

Just my humble opinion

 

[ave_turuta]

I think I can say with 110% certainty my school is NOT a McDojang, however you wish to define it Also, the places I will be living in in Spain all have reputable schools (hey, it's Spain! We are not that bad at Olympic TKD at least) So hopefully I will not have to confront this dilemma.

I say: if it's not challenging, or if it is too easy, it's probably not worth my time.

Cheers,
A.T. :asian:

 

[ave_turuta]

Our school had a 9 year old 1st Poom come in last winter and after a couple months the GM wanted her to wear a blue belt since he felt her kicking wasn't up to the level of the best blue belts in the school at the time.

I don't understand why she was told two months into joining the school to downgrade her belt. I am going to establish a comparison that may not be valid here, but let's just say: in the academic world (my profession) there is a well established system for recognizing a particular level of achievement on the part of a student, via her/his curriculum, number of courses/credits taken, grades, etc. This said, we all know that there are differences in the things people learn in different schools. However, we know that there is a core curriculum that everyone has gone through and for which they have received a certain grade, and even if the student arrives at a more prestigious university, we would never consider stripping her or him off the previous achievement in her/his academic career, whether they were achieved at a lower-ranking institution or not.

So my question is (and now this is more of an abstract reflection rather than my particular case): isn't it a little bit disrespectful to assume that (a) if the student is not "good enough" in our perspective, she/he must have "purchased" the degree, without first inquiring into how that degree was acquired? (i.e. what was the particular focus of that school? what points did that school emphasize? what aspects of that school's training most resemble those of our own school, and how does the student measure up in those common curricular tasks? etc. etc.) and (b) isn't asking the 9 year old two months into her practice in the new school to let go of her poom belt for a blue belt (no less!) somewhat whimsical? The girl earned her poom, period, and somehow I think that while there can be some leeway on the color belts and a color belt can have less trouble accepting letting go of her belt, I find it a little difficult to see how a person who has achieved black belt could not be a little offended at the assumption that she is not deserving of wearing her belt. So her kicking was not that good? Yeah, well: I am 28, and I know I can kick stronger and faster than some of the older BBs at our school, some of whom came from other schools. Let's say the principal focus on our school was how fast and strong you kick rather than technique (which is not the case, but just for this example): would that make them less deserving of wearing a BB, simply because a green belt can kick faster?

In the end, I think it doesn't really matter, but just as we ask that students be respectful of the institutions they join, I also think that institutions should be equally respectful of individuals and recognize their merits without making a big fuss about it.

Peace,
A.T. :asian:

 

[Marginal]

Well, the threat of having a belt downgraded can raise the level of concern and motivate someone to get their deficiencies up to snuff.

 

[ave_turuta]

Well, the threat of having a belt downgraded can raise the level of concern and motivate someone to get their deficiencies up to snuff.

Hmmmmmmmm true, but in this case the poor soul was 9 years old! An adult can perhaps easily understand this, but a 9 year old may simply get discouraged and leave, thinking "hey, I am a black belt anyway!" That was my concern.

Cheers,
A.T.

 

[Rick J]

Good question, Rick. Some McDojangs will pass ANYONE as long as they pay money. I do WTF, so it's not an issue if it's Kukkiwon or not.

It depends on the instructor. Is this instructor in it for the money, and doesn't give a flying **** about ones technique? Will they pass this person for a BB even if they are no better than a white belt because they pay $$$? I don't mind an instructor that wants to make a living, but it's the ones who charge $$$ for everything, and don't teach you crap. You can tell by their (the student's) technique. It doesn't matter what style they are from.

Laurie, I do see some of this where my kids and I train. Since becoming a BB I have tried to work with the GM to apply the standards more uniformly but there are always going to be those students who do just enough to pass without being impressive or even what one would consider competent and they do keep coming and paying their monthly fees. Running a school is very costly if you want a decent facility. Ours has two gyms with a total of about 7,000 square feet between them. Most who have come from other schools say it's the biggest school they've ever seen.

In my short 5 years in MA, I seen it happen. I was at a McDojang for a year. Yes, it was TKD. But it wasn't the art, it was the instructor. I had to leave there. I was only a blue belt at the time, and I could whoop on most of their so-called BB's. I found out that they have never sparred! A BB that never sparred ?!?!?! WTF!?!?!?!? And their technique was no better than mine and I was a rookie!

... That's a McDojang.

There are some students where I go who don't want to spar either. I have chosen to look at the benefits of the training my 2 kids receive and not worry about the other students and their training as I realize it's not my income on the line but the GM's and he really has trained my kids to a very high level.

I still do TKD, and my school does charge a bit because of the high rents/taxes up here. But, at least, my isntructor cares about us, and wants us to be better than he was/is. Or, at least, push ourselves more than we though we could. Man, he is picky about technique also LOL.

Ours is pretty much the same way. He does realize that some are just not going to be very proficient in any area of TKD but if they put forth effort, he will recognize that as part of the advancement process.

Just my humble opinion

JMHO as well :ultracool,

Take Care,

Rick.

 

[Rick J]

I don't understand why she was told two months into joining the school to downgrade her belt. I am going to establish a comparison that may not be valid here, but let's just say: in the academic world (my profession) there is a well established system for recognizing a particular level of achievement on the part of a student, via her/his curriculum, number of courses/credits taken, grades, etc. This said, we all know that there are differences in the things people learn in different schools. However, we know that there is a core curriculum that everyone has gone through and for which they have received a certain grade, and even if the student arrives at a more prestigious university, we would never consider stripping her or him off the previous achievement in her/his academic career, whether they were achieved at a lower-ranking institution or not.

So my question is (and now this is more of an abstract reflection rather than my particular case): isn't it a little bit disrespectful to assume that (a) if the student is not "good enough" in our perspective, she/he must have "purchased" the degree, without first inquiring into how that degree was acquired? (i.e. what was the particular focus of that school? what points did that school emphasize? what aspects of that school's training most resemble those of our own school, and how does the student measure up in those common curricular tasks? etc. etc.) and (b) isn't asking the 9 year old two months into her practice in the new school to let go of her poom belt for a blue belt (no less!) somewhat whimsical? The girl earned her poom, period, and somehow I think that while there can be some leeway on the color belts and a color belt can have less trouble accepting letting go of her belt, I find it a little difficult to see how a person who has achieved black belt could not be a little offended at the assumption that she is not deserving of wearing her belt. So her kicking was not that good? Yeah, well: I am 28, and I know I can kick stronger and faster than some of the older BBs at our school, some of whom came from other schools. Let's say the principal focus on our school was how fast and strong you kick rather than technique (which is not the case, but just for this example): would that make them less deserving of wearing a BB, simply because a green belt can kick faster?

I totally agree with the unfairness of this situation and told her Dad as much but there wasn't a lot I could do except to side with him in discussions with the GM but in the end it didn't matter.

In the end, I think it doesn't really matter, but just as we ask that students be respectful of the institutions they join, I also think that institutions should be equally respectful of individuals and recognize their merits without making a big fuss about it.

At the time it did matter and in my mind it still does. In all fairness to the 9 year old, the only kids who were a little better than her at that time were my 2 but they train everyday in his system and do the techniques exactly the way he has taught them. I think the blue belt thing was more about her comparing to my kids, who were blue at that time, instead of her skill being on a blue belt level as I believe she's better than a lot of 1st Poom's I have seen over that last year.

Peace,
A.T. :asian:

Take Care,

Rick.

 

[Rick J]

Hmmmmmmmm true, but in this case the poor soul was 9 years old! An adult can perhaps easily understand this, but a 9 year old may simply get discouraged and leave, thinking "hey, I am a black belt anyway!" That was my concern.

Cheers,
A.T.

Luckily she was never told, just her parents. I haven't spoken with them since they left but I'm tempted to quite often, if for no other reason than to find out where she's training now.

Rick.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Cali, good question. The way I look at it is this. If someone is a color belt, it's much easier to start over (I've been there, that's how I came up with this). But if you are a black belt (Congrads on your 2nd dan ), it should be up to you and the instructor to decide. Obviously if someone has a BB from a McDojang, and can't do what is required, they go back to white or lower rank. But if someone knows their stuff, it should be up to that person and their new instructor. Just my humble opinion

Hey, thanks KK '75 :asian:

TKD is like life, there will always be someone who's really good at what they do, either it's because they're talented naturally, and or, they just put in the time to get good at their specialty. Then there are the ones who skate through to get their rankings through whatever means, which is really what gives my art a black eye.

I've seen some TKD BBs who think they're all that, but, when it cames down to it, these knuckleheads would take an *** whipping from a non MA practioner in a heart beat. Just because you're a BB, TKD or whatever, doesn't mean sheeat in the real world

I've been practicing TKD for a while now, and I know that practioners in the other MAs don't really respect our discipline. Maybe it's because we're one of the most popular MAs, and the fact that TKD has been watered down (like here in the States) to make that possible.

To me it's all about the person, the TKD practioner, and his or her commitment to advance themselves and know that once you achieve BB it's just really the beginning.

If anything, I've learned that studying the MAs is infinite.

Anyway, this is just my long winded vent... :supcool:

 

[TigerWoman]

Ave Turuta kindly says.... I'M A GIRL!!!! :uhyeah:

Take care! :asian:
A.T.

Sorry, I guess I didn't see any clues. Glad you joined us. TW

 

[ave_turuta]

Sorry, I guess I didn't see any clues. Glad you joined us. TW

Hey, no problem TW!

 

[karatekid1975]

Cali, your welcome And I totally agree with you. Good "long winded" post