Training in more than one style?

[geezer]

...I've made my decision if they tell me no, I'm going to take my money somewhere else. I get the impression they may be the type of people who think there way is the only way. I hope I'm wrong but we will see.

Gotta stick to your guns. Way back, I used to belong to an association with rules like that. I liked what they taught, but I'm a curious guy so I like to look into other things too. I was a loyal senior student/instructor so they tolerated my infidelities up to a point. However, eventually after about a dozen years with them, this attitude (along with some very steep instructional fees) forced me out.

Many years later I picked up that MA again, but with a "renegade" group that is a little more open minded. However if I can find time in my schedule to start training a little BJJ, I may just forget to tell them about it. I'll just consider my silence "conflict avoidance".

 

[Dinkydoo]

I don't agree with students not being allowed to cross train but I could see why a teacher might think you weren't committed to the art they were teaching if you were an absolute beginner and cross trained a lot. Personally I'd advise doing something you like for a year, getting to grips with the mechanics of the style before looking to do a bit of cross training - especially if the styles you are training in are inherently different and don't fit together all that well to begin with (many do, and many don't).

I personally train in two styles properly and attend classes in a third now and again - but I feel that I'm at a level where I can dictate how much of X I want to do in order to work on something whilst taking it a bit easier with Y. Then for a month or two I'll do Z solid and only the bare minimum of X and Y. Most the time it works but when it doesnt I re-evaluate my schedule and go from there. I'm doing what I do for me, ultimately.

 

[Blindside]

I think a far sounder argument about why students shouldn't cross train at any particular time is simply speed of progression. I student A spends 10 hours a week studying an art and his classmate is studying 5 because he is splitting his time with another art, then Student A will (all other things being equal) progress in the art faster. As an instructor my real goal is trying to develop skill in my students so if someone isn't doing their "homework," why should I spend my time on him? I still don't like it, but I could understand that argument.

 

[Steve]

I'm about to join an Aiki Jujutsu dojo. However I'm really interested in cross training in Maui Thai. I really feel if you don't actually have somebody try to really punch you in the face it won't prepare you for reality. I'm a lover of the striking arts. It's where I started. The Jujutsu school does practice strikes but very minimal. My issue is the rules state training in any other school without permission is grounds for immediate dismissal. How do you feel about a rule like that? Before I join I'm going to speak to the instructor about it.

I'm a little confused. Are you a beginner in both arts, or have you trained in Muay Thai for a while. You say you love striking and that's where you started. A lot of the responses to your post are presuming you're a novice in both styles. I can't tell from what you've written.

Another poing I'm not clear on is why you're interested in Muay Thai and Aikijutsu. are you interested in learning to strike or to test your Aiki Jujutsu against a striker?

Regarding the rule, I'm with the others. You're there by choice. If you choose to train at this school, it's reasonable that you would abide by the conditions. They can choose not to train you if you don't.

Time to find a new school. You're paying THEM for instruction, not the other way around.

There should be plenty of JJ schools out there that will allow you to train where you want. Modern styles like Judo and Bjj schools will definitely allow it.

Muay Thai (sp?) compliments Judo and/or Bjj very well.

This isn't universally true. There are many affiliations within BJJ that are open and have great relationships. Others do not. Many BJJ schools are part of a synergistic eco system, where the school teaches BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling and MMA (or some other stuff). While the systems can often be signed up for seperately or all together, I question whether you would be encouraged (or even allowed) to take Muay Thai at a competing school if it's offered in your own. Sure, you'd be fine taking BJJ and Muay Thai, but to suggest that combat sports schools are all one big, happy, cooperative family is far from the truth.

 

[drop bear]

I think a far sounder argument about why students shouldn't cross train at any particular time is simply speed of progression. I student A spends 10 hours a week studying an art and his classmate is studying 5 because he is splitting his time with another art, then Student A will (all other things being equal) progress in the art faster. As an instructor my real goal is trying to develop skill in my students so if someone isn't doing their "homework," why should I spend my time on him? I still don't like it, but I could understand that argument.

Getting paid?

 

[WaterGal]

I think the rule is kind of silly, but I understand where they are coming from. I've had students talk about how they do stuff in their martial art while I'm trying to teach, and it does nothing to help the other students who are trying to learn. It's pretty distracting. Of course, there are things in different martial arts that are going to be at odds with each other, and there's rarely a right answer, so there's no amount of discussion that will help the situation. Even if you don't say that in class, make sure you practice what they're teaching while you're training there.

I've definitely seen that, and I've also seen the same thing with people who used to go to a different school or train in a different style - "when I did karate, we warmed up this way; at my old school, we didn't have to try that kick until black belt" or whatever. The problem is that behavior, which IMO comes from an unwillingness to be open to new things and probably a fear of failure or embarassment, not cross-training in itself.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I'm about to join an Aiki Jujutsu dojo. However I'm really interested in cross training in Maui Thai. I really feel if you don't actually have somebody try to really punch you in the face it won't prepare you for reality. I'm a lover of the striking arts. It's where I started. The Jujutsu school does practice strikes but very minimal. My issue is the rules state training in any other school without permission is grounds for immediate dismissal. How do you feel about a rule like that? Before I join I'm going to speak to the instructor about it.

From your profile you said you were a nube, so going on that I got to ask.

Why Aiki Jujutsu?

Why MT?

From my very limited exposure to Aiki Jujutsu, and we are talking only about attending a few seminars, a few classes etc. etc. back 25 years ago, I have to ask why that art? I'm NOT asking this from the position there is anything wrong with this art, nor am I trying to put that art down in anyway. But from my speaking from limited exposure; the teaching methods used in that art (and the dojo/club), the whole traditional atmosphere, the whole training experience, the goals of the art etc. etc. don't really lend itself to someone training in MT.

Seeing the high level Aiki Jujutsu instructors back then left me with the belief that to be really good at Aiki, it was something that was going to take complete dedication to do, which at the time I couldn't take the falls and so I opted out. However the classical training, their self defense, etc. etc. was great for Aiki Jujutsu but it would kind of conflict with say any SD training that might come form your MT training.

For example one of the SD techniques we did was a lapel grab or maybe it was off a punch, whatever, but we had to adopt a stance, backfist to the face, slide the hand down the arm, apply an outer wrist lock step back a certain way to throw the guy. It was very precise, very clean technique wise, etc. etc.

However MT is designed for the ring as a two person combative sport wearing gloves, here you might pass the arm, knee to the chest, elbow to the head, wrap the arm, bend him over shift your weight back and throw the person down to the ground, very expedient. Very messy, real.

One trains for person's throwing real punches at you in a ring where they are trying to knock you out and the other is designed for a completely different thing. I don't think these arts go together.

The above SD example was used because I learned both in the Aiki class and then the other at an MT seminar. I teach a similar response to the Aiki Jujutsu in my karate class, and while it is mechanically similar to the untrained eye; it is very different by way of movement, the emphasis on body placement, etc. etc. as well as the outcome. My goal in teaching it in the karate class is to hit the person to stop their aggression, in the Aiki Jujutsu class it was more about blending with the person to get the result I wanted. It's hard to explain considering it was 25+ years ago.

Because of seeing these high level Aiki instructors back than, if this school is a traditional Aiki Jujutsu school, than I can see why they might say you can't train at another school.

 

[Hanzou]

/snip..

Great post.

Exactly why I suggested he take up a sport jujutsu style instead.

 

[Mark Lynn]

My issue is the rules state training in any other school without permission is grounds for immediate dismissal. How do you feel about a rule like that? Before I join I'm going to speak to the instructor about it.

As others have stated it is their school and their right to have that rule.

How I feel about that rule is that depending upon the school and the art, I can see the reasons for the rule. However I do believe in cross training and I have trained in several styles. Historically I believe that cross training is supported and in fact is one of the reasons we have so many styles today. Even the karate masters of old trained in several arts under different instructors, the old masters or top fighters in the martial arts of the Philippines cross train with other masters and styles or methods of FMAs and other martial arts from japan etc. etc., so there is no doubt that cross training in different arts or under different instructors can be good.

However there are down sides as well.
1) Students can get confused as to the proper way to deal with a situation, or the proper way to do a technique, strategies etc. etc.

2) Without a solid base to build upon the student can have a real weak foundation.

3) By concentrating on learning multiple arts at the same time the student never really gets good/proficient in one and becomes mediocre in both.

4) The goals of the arts can be at odds; one is meant for sport and the other meant for SD, one meant for sport the other meant for other things (take Iaido, for instance).

5) It can be frustrating for the student and the instructor teaching the student.

This is just a short list and I'm sure others can come up with different reasons as well, so I can see why schools might have a rule like this in place. The main thing is really your last sentence, talk to the owner/instructor and let them know your concerns/goals in training and attending their school. Then choose if it is the best for you.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Hanzou

I agree, it sounds to me like he is looking for a more sport orientated school that generally teaches the more MMA type arts. These arts are generally blended in the school between the instructors anyway so there would be support there and probably curriculum alignment to boot. The Aiki Jujutsu school, by the very name of the style suggests the older Japanese method of instruction (I mean the martial art) and that isn't very complimentary to sport or to the modern striking arts.

The high level guys I saw when they applied their art (demoed it) it was like watching a magic show, it wasn't of course, but I still use that as an example to my students of what a person can achieve by real dedication to learning a martial art. We get the glimpse of the mountain top (their skill) but we don't see the effort and the years/decades of training to achieve that height of skill. You don't get that by dabbling here and there.

 

[oaktree]

Takeda son or another menkyo holder said study the sword to understand aikijujutsu in one of the books on daito ryu. Takeda himself studied different arts as well. I study more then one art i enjoy the arts i do i find Similarities differences and overall a better understanding of my goals and direction. If you feel it conflicts with your growth as an individual Then maybe look into another teacher who shares your ideas and nourishes and enriches you.

 

[Cagekicker]

I'm a little confused. Are you a beginner in both arts, or have you trained in Muay Thai for a while. You say you love striking and that's where you started. A lot of the responses to your post are presuming you're a novice in both styles. I can't tell from what you've written.

Another poing I'm not clear on is why you're interested in Muay Thai and Aikijutsu. are you interested in learning to strike or to test your Aiki Jujutsu against a striker?

Regarding the rule, I'm with the others. You're there by choice. If you choose to train at this school, it's reasonable that you would abide by the conditions. They can choose not to train you if you don't. This isn't universally true. There are many affiliations within BJJ that are open and have great relationships. Others do not. Many BJJ schools are part of a synergistic eco system, where the school teaches BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling and MMA (or some other stuff). While the systems can often be signed up for seperately or all together, I question whether you would be encouraged (or even allowed) to take Muay Thai at a competing school if it's offered in your own. Sure, you'd be fine taking BJJ and Muay Thai, but to suggest that combat sports schools are all one big, happy, cooperative family is far from the truth.

I've been training for quite some time but mostly combatives type stuff. I'm a law enforcement officer. My MA experience started with TKD. My last instructor was deep into judo jujutsu and TKD. We did a lot of strikes joint locks/breaks throws. But I have not trained in quite a while. My last instructor told me when I had to move find a jujutsu place you will fit right in. So that's what I did. This school is very small non commercial. It's in a building built in the teachers back yard. I have never done Maui Thai I have boxed before. Loved it. I want to try out kick boxing of some kind. Mostly to refine my striking abilities. Ya may think I'm crazy but I want to put on head gear and go at it again. Having somebody actually trying to hit you is way different then pre defined strikes. I'm going to hold off about a year before doing any cross training. I spoke with the instructor about it. I threw my "sales" pitch at him. He said he has no issue with it as long as I stick to the training agenda and don't do the whole well in Maui Thai we do this. He told me when I decide I want to cross train he knows of a few really good instructors he will recommend. So I signed up and went to my first class.

 

[Shai Hulud]

This sounds like one of those more traditionalist dojo setups - the kind that're really competitive with their stock vs. other training centres. I haven't any experience with that sort, but I can only imagine that'd be the reason. The whole "company/organizational loyalty" and "team spirit" gimmicks are really big in Japanese society.

That being said, Muay Thai and Jujutsu are pretty far off. If you can separate and distinguish techniques between the two, then I think you'll be fine. Personally though, I highly recommend that you focus on one at a time; maybe wait for about a year or two before trying another? Focus and commitment go a long, long way.