Training 2 different styles

[Buka]

Welcome to MartialTalk, Aspida.

You're young, have plenty of time. Give them a go for a couple years, see how it goes.

 

[drop bear]

There is an argument that consistency is Important and leads to higher skills.

Differences in methodology between systems can cause inconsistency in how you train and use your techniques. That can hinder and undermine your growth.

Training multiple systems can be a good thing, or it can be a mess, or anything in between.

In my opinion, most people do not train one system well, much less multiple systems.

So, you decide for yourself if the potential benefits outweigh the potential pitfalls. Just understand that the pitfalls are real.

The pitfalls of consistent training in one style is you never inovate. You become a copy of a copy. It would be as if you only had access to one instructor and dilligently followed his method. You never really achieve understanding. Like a parrot never really learns english.

It will also effect your mental process because you focus on form rather than function.

Something works but it does not conform to the mindset. And so is discarded.

So while the perception is that you gain mastery as your ability to replicate becomes better. There is a level of ability you just cant get past.

Inovation is harder. It will mean more work and more time. But you get out what you put in in martial arts.

 

[JR 137]

The pitfalls of consistent training in one style is you never inovate. You become a copy of a copy. It would be as if you only had access to one instructor and dilligently followed his method. You never really achieve understanding. Like a parrot never really learns english.

It will also effect your mental process because you focus on form rather than function.

Something works but it does not conform to the mindset. And so is discarded.

So while the perception is that you gain mastery as your ability to replicate becomes better. There is a level of ability you just cant get past.

Inovation is harder. It will mean more work and more time. But you get out what you put in in martial arts.

Yes and no. Depends on the teacher and classmates. A lot of schools have a few different people teaching, so you do get a few different perspectives on the same things. My CI and his right-hand-man compliment each other quite well. Their individual strengths easily make up for each others’ weaknesses. Not all places have that though.

 

[drop bear]

Yes and no. Depends on the teacher and classmates. A lot of schools have a few different people teaching, so you do get a few different perspectives on the same things. My CI and his right-hand-man compliment each other quite well. Their individual strengths easily make up for each others’ weaknesses. Not all places have that though.

But in theory that should mess you up worse. Because then you have 2 different takes on the one system. If that is actually a benefit then maybe this idea of actively training mental elasticity has some merit.

There is even science behind this idea.
brain elasticity | SharpBrains

 

[JR 137]

But in theory that should mess you up worse. Because then you have 2 different takes on the one system. If that is actually a benefit then maybe this idea of actively training mental elasticity has some merit.

There is even science behind this idea.
brain elasticity | SharpBrains

I’m not arguing brain n elasticity at all; I don’t think any reasonable person will have any major issues learned multiple systems simultaneously. As I said in an earlier post, it depends on how much time they have to train and how good they want to get at a particular system. Let’s say I can train Monday Wednesday and Friday nights. If I do karate Monday, Judo Wednesday, and boxing Friday, how good will I be at any individual one of those in a year? If I want to get really good at karate, I’d probably be best off training that the 3 nights every week instead of one night a week.

If I’m looking to be the most complete fighter I can be in a year and or complete in MMA in a year, I’d probably be best off doing all 3 simultaneously. I’d most likely benefit from someone who knows how to tie all of those together too.

As for the 2 different teachers, it’s not two entirely different takes on the same system. It’s different ways of communicating the same thing. You and I can both teach Newton’s laws of motion, but we may explain it a bit differently. If we shared a student, some things you might say might click better than some things I’d say and vice versa. My CI and the 2nd in charge are on the same page, but their language during feedback can be different. My CI is more of a big picture and hands off and let me work it out the minor details for myself kind of guy, whereas the other one explains the details more thoroughly and fine tuning kind of guy. I’d be very happy with either one of them as my only teacher, but I’m better off with both of them. Nothing either one has said has ever conflicted with what the other said.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Be good at one art or suck at multiple arts. My 2 cents.

 

[DanT]

Be good at one art or suck at multiple arts. My 2 cents.

Unless you have the time for both. Most don't, I luckily have time to study four arts (it's all I do).

But I agree in the sense that those who only have 4-12 h a week, should stick to one art and master that.

I say stick with one for 3-4 years, get a solid foundation, and then start something else along side it if you want to.

 

[hoshin1600]

Be good at one art or suck at multiple arts. My 2 cents.

i dont think those are the only two options available.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

i dont think those are the only two options available.

That's why I said it was my 2 cents. I don't think anyone can work diligently towards mastery of any martial art whilst splitting their time between more than one.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Unless you have the time for both. Most don't, I luckily have time to study four arts (it's all I do).

But I agree in the sense that those who only have 4-12 h a week, should stick to one art and master that.

I say stick with one for 3-4 years, get a solid foundation, and then start something else along side it if you want to.

A 'solid foundation' is another way of saying 'sucking at'.

 

[Danny T]

Be good at one art or suck at multiple arts. My 2 cents.

Really depends on the amount of time one has to train day to day and for what time period.
A year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, more, a life time?
I am a proponent of training multiple systems 'if' one has the time to dedicate training. I have several students who train multiple arts. They don't suck; in fact they are excellent in all they train in. I have trained multiple arts for many decades. I don't suck...well, in my mind I don't, maybe I do.

I have trained WC, Muay Thai, Wrestling, and Kali each 3 the 4 times a week for decades. Over the past 5 years I have been training Combat Submission Wrestling, BJJ, and Savate on top of the prior listed.
There are several others here who also train in multiple systems who I don't believe 'suck'.

I believe from my experiences with many who train in multiple arts that the average person has the capability to do the same. IF they have the time to dedicate to training.

 

[MA_Student]

That's why I said it was my 2 cents. I don't think anyone can work diligently towards mastery of any martial art whilst splitting their time between more than one.

Why do you need to master anything if you're looking into using it for self defence then you don't need to be a master. Personally I'd rather be open to seeing as many different ways as possible. I mean look at guys like bruce lee he trained in multiple styles you saying he sucks at all his styles. Or guys like Jon jones you saying he sucks at all his styles? Or a guy like rory macdonald who hasn't got a base in anything he just started in mma.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Be good at one art or suck at multiple arts. My 2 cents.

After one guy had spent 6 years in the long fist system and 3 years in the preying mantis system. He went to study the Baji system. He then made a comment that his Baji system teacher had helped him to open his eyes. His comment made both his long fist teacher and his preying mantis teacher mad big time. As if both teachers had kept their students in darkness all these years.

Both his long fist teacher and preying mantis teacher told him that if he had studied long enough, he would understand "power generation". In just few lesson, his Baji teacher taught him by using few simple drills, he could have a complete understanding of "power generation".

In CMA, the

- long fist system is famous for "foundation development".
- preying mantis (or Zimen) system is famous for "speed generation".
- Baji (or Chen Taiji, XingYi Luhe) system is famous for "power generation".
- eagle claw system is famous for "joint locking".
- Shuai Chiao is famous for " throwing skill".

It's very common for CMA guys to cross train those systems to fulfill their "different needs". As far as the CMA is concern, sometime people will think your CMA training is not complete if you have not fully "cross trained" those systems.

When you cross train, do you have to re-learn all the basic punches and kicks? Of course you don't have to. As long as you stay in the "northern CMA" and don't mix with any "southern CMA" (such as WC), your "foundation" will always be good.

On the other hand, if you train both long fist (northern CMA) and WC (southern CMA), you will be in big trouble.

 

[MA_Student]

Really depends on the amount of time one has to train day to day and for what time period.
A year, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, more, a life time?
I am a proponent of training multiple systems 'if' one has the time to dedicate training. I have several students who train multiple arts. They don't suck; in fact they are excellent in all they train in. I have trained multiple arts for many decades. I don't suck...well, in my mind I don't, maybe I do.

I have trained WC, Muay Thai, Wrestling, and Kali each 3 the 4 times a week for decades. Over the past 5 years I have been training Combat Submission Wrestling, BJJ, and Savate on top of the prior listed.
There are several others here who also train in multiple systems who I don't believe 'suck'.

I believe from my experiences with many who train in multiple arts that the average person has the capability to do the same. IF they have the time to dedicate to training.

Agreed I think the argument of train in multiple styles and you'll be bad at all of them is just an outdated argument, I mean it's been proven since the 70s with bruce lee that you can train multiple styles and be good at them. It's shown even more today with mma fighters. I mean yeah everyone's going to have strengths and weaknesses in different things that's life. Personally I believe everyone should train more than 1 martial art even if it's not full time and just 1 or 2 classes just so they can see what else is out there because every style is different and has it's different ways. I've done kenpo for 15 years and in Muay Thai I'm seeing set ups to shots I've never seen in my life. Same the other way I see stuff in kenpo that you'd never see in Muay Thai. Obviously not everyone can train multiple styles for different reasons time, money etc but it's definentely a benefit in my eyes and it's improved me as a martial artist by leaps and bounds

 

[Danny T]

Why do you need to master anything if you're looking into using it for self defence then you don't need to be a master. Personally I'd rather be open to seeing as many different ways as possible. I mean look at guys like bruce lee he trained in multiple styles you saying he sucks at all his styles. Or guys like Jon jones you saying he sucks at all his styles? Or a guy like rory macdonald who hasn't got a base in anything he just started in mma.

Some do train more for the art. Being able to fight is a side bar. For others fighting is what it is all about. Different stokes for different folks.

 

[MA_Student]

Some do train more for the art. Being able to fight is a side bar. For others fighting is what it is all about. Different stokes for different folks.

Absolutely and nothing wrong with that at all but what I said is if you're training for self defence, if it's just for the art your training then it's fine

 

[JR 137]

A 'solid foundation' is another way of saying 'sucking at'.

I’d agree if it said “a solid foundation is another way of saying sucking LESS at.”

 

[DanT]

A 'solid foundation' is another way of saying 'sucking at'.

If they still suck at the first art then I would recommend sticking with it until they're decent.

I agree that it's impossible to master one art if you keep jumping around between arts. But mastery is attainable if you put in the hours.

 

[JR 137]

If they still suck at the first art then I would recommend sticking with it until they're decent.

I agree that it's impossible to master one art if you keep jumping around between arts. But mastery is attainable if you put in the hours.

Depends on your definition of mastery. I read a story of an old Okinawan karateka who trained his entire life. On his death bed, one of the last things he said was (paraphrasing) “I think I’m beginning to understand Pinan 1.”

 

[DanT]

Depends on your definition of mastery. I read a story of an old Okinawan karateka who trained his entire life. On his death bed, one of the last things he said was (paraphrasing) “I think I’m beginning to understand Pinan 1.”

Mastery for me means: comprehensive knowledge or skill in a subject or accomplishment.