Tournament time..... :)
- Thread starter _Simon_
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dvcochran
Grandmaster
Had the tournament today!
My divisions started later in the day so a few hours of waiting, but went really well! In my forms division there were four of us (better than no one last year!), and got a silver medal! It was a sudden change of rings however for this division onto the non-matted ring, which turned out fine and didn't throw me too much, as I'd only practiced it on the hardwood floor area anyway. But kata felt great, no slips, emphasised everything I wanted to in it, felt super relaxed the whole time and just in the zone, so really happy with the silver!
The fellow who won was a 1st Kyu, and did Kururunfa kata (!) which is like a 3rd Dan kata... and he scored quite highly. But interesting such a high level kata the other fellow chose for the 5th Kyu to 1st Kyu division hey (and of course this kata may be lower in his style, but I've researched it alot and never found that to be the case), but nevertheless he performed it incredibly well though and it wasn't one of those 'perform a higher kata sloppy' type performances, it truly was really good.
In the point sparring there were seven of us (which was on the mats, which I preferred, yes!), and I unfortunately lost my first round and didn't progress further. But really stoked with how I performed still, moved well, wasn't feeling nervous at all really, got three points still against his six, and had a ball.
He was one of those opponents who pretty much mostly kicked, and it quite threw me and I didn't know how to work with that. I really tried to angle and use my footwork and speed to get around him which worked at times but he would just lift his front leg and kick. His first move was always a lead leg side kick which I figured out, but I'll have to figure out a strategy for that... A few times I didn't feel like I scored as I clearly blocked but ah well it goes with the territory that that'll happen. Ah and my opponent punched me in the right eye THREE times haha, same spot. Which, the third time it happened I was a little frustrated haha but no damage done. I can't remember if I was the one to run into them but I don't think so hehe. He was actually really lovely after the round finished so it was clearly not intentional.
I enjoyed this one so much, and honestly I just didn't even feel that nervous at all which is bizarre! The day before I was far more nervous. I met a bunch of really, really great people, and it's so refreshing to meet such honourable, respectful martial artists. Had such a great time!
I have video footage of my kata so I'll have to post that soon
Fantastic! The comradery is one of the greatest things about a good tourney. I saw good balance on the form. If the sparring match allowed punching to the face I think I would be more concerned with the three eye punches. One of the easiest defensed for a lead leg kick is to simply step in before the kick can get extended. Great job.
Headhunter
Senior Master
I think I know that guy in the white coat in the photos I thought he retired years ago
OP
OP
_Simon_
Senior Master
Thanks heaps guys
Yeah me too, feels so nice performing it.. now the question is whether to stick with that one for the state titles or change hmmm...
Cheers, will definitely keep that in mind. Or seeing his telegraph and coming in over the top quickly with a punch, or just getting a faster kick in hehe
. I think maybe my moving around his kicks wasn't fast enough, and I didn't have the time counter straight away.
Yeah it did allow face punches (noncontact), just one of those things unfortunately hehe.
Ah really? The Go-Kan-Ryu jacket dude? I'm blanking on his name... but yeah he's a judge at these tournaments and also competes in the veterans division, I see him every year. He did an awesome Kanku-Sho, I was rather impressed as that kata requires alot of agility and a few acrobatics moves in there!
That's pretty cool, how do you know him?
Yeah me too, feels so nice performing it.. now the question is whether to stick with that one for the state titles or change hmmm...
Cheers, will definitely keep that in mind. Or seeing his telegraph and coming in over the top quickly with a punch, or just getting a faster kick in hehe
. I think maybe my moving around his kicks wasn't fast enough, and I didn't have the time counter straight away.Yeah it did allow face punches (noncontact), just one of those things unfortunately hehe.
Ah really? The Go-Kan-Ryu jacket dude? I'm blanking on his name... but yeah he's a judge at these tournaments and also competes in the veterans division, I see him every year. He did an awesome Kanku-Sho, I was rather impressed as that kata requires alot of agility and a few acrobatics moves in there!
That's pretty cool, how do you know him?
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CB Jones
Senior Master
Cool. My son has started running a version of Kanku Dai as his tournament kata.
He really likes it
JR 137
Grandmaster
Which kata do you know?Thanks heaps guys
Yeah me too, feels so nice performing it.. now the question is whether to stick with that one for the state titles or change hmmm...
Cheers, will definitely keep that in mind. Or seeing his telegraph and coming in over the top quickly with a punch, or just getting a faster kick in hehe
Yeah it did allow face punches (noncontact), just one of those things unfortunately hehe.
Ah really? The Go-Kan-Ryu jacket dude? I'm blanking on his name... but yeah he's a judge at these tournaments and also competes in the veterans division, I see him every year. He did an awesome Kanku-Sho, I was rather impressed as that kata requires alot of agility and a few acrobatics moves in there!
That's pretty cool, how do you know him?
My tournament kata back in the day was Saiha. I won several tournaments with that one. I would’ve done it again 2 years ago at our annual Seido tournament, but it was a few belts above my rank at the time. Our tournament’s rule is we have to do a kata within our current rank. Only exception is if the student recently promoted, then he/she is allowed a kata from the previous rank. ie when I competed 2 years ago, I was in the 4th kyu division. Acceptable kata were Gekisai Dai (which I did), Pinan 4, and Seido 3. There were 3 guys who did Pinan 3 in our division. The judges didn’t ask when they promoted, but it was obvious because their belts were still all shiny and creased (when you see that sharp bend in the tail of one side). I’m probably going to compete in October in our annual tournament. If I’m still a 2nd kyu, I’ll do Pinan 5. If I’m promoted in the time being (possibly right around the tournament assuming no setbacks), I’ll do Saiha. But enough about my tournament
...If Pinan 4 is your strongest kata, stick with it. If so, I’ll be glad to give you a few pointers. I worked on Pinan 4 and Gekisai Dai a lot for my last tournament. I honestly decided to do Gekisai Dai when I walked up and bowed in front of the judges. I wasn’t feeling my side kicks that day.
If you’re bored with Pinan 4 and have enough time to learn a new kata well enough to compete with it, then go that route.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Hey @Dirty Dog, do you do the first move open hand or closed hand like the video? We have always done it closed hand, palm down on the outside block first, turning it palm up for the upper-cut. Just curious how you did it.
I think you're confused again...
I don't do the pinan forms at all. I do kicho, palgwae, taegeuk, chang hon and yudanja forms.
OP
OP
_Simon_
Senior Master
Ahhh that's awesome, Kanku Dai is definitely one of my favourite katas...
Which kata do you know?
My tournament kata back in the day was Saiha. I won several tournaments with that one. I would’ve done it again 2 years ago at our annual Seido tournament, but it was a few belts above my rank at the time. Our tournament’s rule is we have to do a kata within our current rank. Only exception is if the student recently promoted, then he/she is allowed a kata from the previous rank. ie when I competed 2 years ago, I was in the 4th kyu division. Acceptable kata were Gekisai Dai (which I did), Pinan 4, and Seido 3. There were 3 guys who did Pinan 3 in our division. The judges didn’t ask when they promoted, but it was obvious because their belts were still all shiny and creased (when you see that sharp bend in the tail of one side). I’m probably going to compete in October in our annual tournament. If I’m still a 2nd kyu, I’ll do Pinan 5. If I’m promoted in the time being (possibly right around the tournament assuming no setbacks), I’ll do Saiha. But enough about my tournament
If Pinan 4 is your strongest kata, stick with it. If so, I’ll be glad to give you a few pointers. I worked on Pinan 4 and Gekisai Dai a lot for my last tournament. I honestly decided to do Gekisai Dai when I walked up and bowed in front of the judges. I wasn’t feeling my side kicks that day.
If you’re bored with Pinan 4 and have enough time to learn a new kata well enough to compete with it, then go that route.
I know:
-Taikyoku katas and Taikyoku Sokugi katas (obviously won't perform those in a tourney hehe. Also know in ura but that would confuse the judges I'm sure XD)
-Pinan 1-5 (still brushing up on 5)
-Tsuki No
-Gekisai Dai
-Gekisai Sho
-Yantsu
-Sanchin
-Tensho
-Saifa/Saiha
-Bassai Dai
-Seiunchin
-Empi/Enpi
-currently attempting to learn Kururunfa
Ah that's awesome, yeah I love Saiha
. I know a different version of it than the Kyokushin one but I'm very comfortable with it.And nah I love hearing about your tournaments! Feel free to let us know how you go if you compete in October, wouldn't mind at all if you posted in this thread
Ah that's interesting about the rules and what katas to perform. I think in this one we're supposed to perform around our level, but are welcome to perform higher if we have the ability to. But I was puzzled about the fellow who won with Kururunfa, it's usually a much much higher kata than 1st Kyu...
Ah cool, thanks heaps appreciate the offer very much, and will for sure take you up on it if I go with Pinan Yon. Yeah I'm very comfortable with it, but yeah still on the fence whether to try something else... I think something that's well rounded and not so static is a good option... a kata that's dynamic and displays athleticism, balance, solid stances and transitions, technique, understanding of movements, power, good hard/soft, breathing... I love some other katas like Yantsu, but don't know whether it's too stationary or not.
It's hard to know what they're looking for! But I'll look over the rules anyway. I did Seiunchin at the state titles last year, but I was the only one in my division hehe.
The next one is in 12 weeks so we shall see!
OP
OP
_Simon_
Senior Master
Ah cool, I know in Pinan Ni (2) it starts similar, but with closed hands instead, and palm down on the higher up arm
JR 137
Grandmaster
From your list, I don’t know Bassai, Empi, and Kururunfa.Ahhh that's awesome, Kanku Dai is definitely one of my favourite katas...
I know:
-Taikyoku katas and Taikyoku Sokugi katas (obviously won't perform those in a tourney hehe. Also know in ura but that would confuse the judges I'm sure XD)
-Pinan 1-5 (still brushing up on 5)
-Tsuki No
-Gekisai Dai
-Gekisai Sho
-Yantsu
-Sanchin
-Tensho
-Saifa/Saiha
-Bassai Dai
-Seiunchin
-Empi/Enpi
-currently attempting to learn Kururunfa
Ah that's awesome, yeah I love Saiha
And nah I love hearing about your tournaments! Feel free to let us know how you go if you compete in October, wouldn't mind at all if you posted in this thread
Ah that's interesting about the rules and what katas to perform. I think in this one we're supposed to perform around our level, but are welcome to perform higher if we have the ability to. But I was puzzled about the fellow who won with Kururunfa, it's usually a much much higher kata than 1st Kyu...
Ah cool, thanks heaps appreciate the offer very much, and will for sure take you up on it if I go with Pinan Yon. Yeah I'm very comfortable with it, but yeah still on the fence whether to try something else... I think something that's well rounded and not so static is a good option... a kata that's dynamic and displays athleticism, balance, solid stances and transitions, technique, understanding of movements, power, good hard/soft, breathing... I love some other katas like Yantsu, but don't know whether it's too stationary or not.
It's hard to know what they're looking for! But I'll look over the rules anyway. I did Seiunchin at the state titles last year, but I was the only one in my division hehe.
The next one is in 12 weeks so we shall see!
From what you say you’re looking to do, I’d say Pinan 5 checks a lot of those boxes. And it’s not an out of place for a kyu kata. There’s stance changes, a good flow/timing change with hard and fast vs slow movements, and athleticism with the jump and a few direction changes. I honestly think it shows off more abilities and skills than the others. Yes, Seiunchin is more difficult and longer, but I think Pinan 5 is more dimensional from a tournament standpoint. But if you’ve got a solid kiba dachi and easily into it, out of it, and within it, Seiunchin could be it.
If I was competing soon and could do any kata, it would be a toss up between Pinan 5, Saiha, and Seiunchin. Saiha just always felt right to me. We have tournament prep classes for a while leading up to them. I was going to compete in last year’s tournament, but some family stuff came up last minute so I had to back out. Both years when we were doing different kata to warm up and I guess get into the right mindset, I did Saiha. Everyone told me it’s the perfect kata for me and I should do it in the tournament. I just smiled every time and reminded them I couldn’t due to rank. I got “well at least you know which one you’re doing for 1st kyu.” Yup.
I plan on competing in October, and I plan on being 2nd kyu. I’m not seriously refining Pinan 5 right now, but I’m definitely paying extra attention to it when I do it. When we’re asked to pick a kata during class, it’s always Pinan 5.
Michele123
Green Belt
It was really neat to watch your Pinan 4. When I studied Shutokan, we did Pinan 1-5* as well, but they were different. Pinan 4 was called Pinan Yondan and, while similar to your kata, it was also different.
* we also did Nafatchi 1-2 & Basai. I don’t remember the name of the kata after Basai because I never finished learning it before leaving for college
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* we also did Nafatchi 1-2 & Basai. I don’t remember the name of the kata after Basai because I never finished learning it before leaving for college
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dvcochran
Grandmaster
You are right sir. I stand corrected. Another senior moment.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Yep, I even had the wrong Pyong An form in mind.
OP
OP
_Simon_
Senior Master
Awesome, that's very insightful feedback, thanks mate. I'll run through Pinan Go a few times and see how it feels, but you're absolutely right, it would be a great one to perform in a tournament.
Seiunchin I practiced like crazy, and I even did Shiko dachi instead of Kiba dachi and got my legs relatively comfortable in the stance and moving out of it and around in it. Still a difficult one to perform, endurance-wise hehe! And the thing is, EEEEEVERYONE does Seiunchin at this tournament haha, seriously it's performed so very often... and as much as I love it, I don't know if it's worth doing if alot of others are. Although the judges are impartial and have to judge the kata solely on that and not on what others did.
Ah that's awesome, yeah there are so many differences I've noticed. I've seen those first few open hand moves done really slowly in some katas. And ah cool, yeah also called Heian Yon in other circles.
And was it Naihanchi kata that you did? I recently learned that too briefly, love that one...
Michele123
Green Belt
Hmm. Our school spelled it “Naifanchi.” There were two “ich” & “ni.”
In my kata list earlier I forgot to include Sanchin & Wankan Ich (presumably there are more Wankan ones but I only ever got up to 1st Dan so I’m not certain).
Ahhh. This Kata discussion really makes me miss karate and my old school. Taekwondo is fun but it there’s nothing like your first love.
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OP
OP
_Simon_
Senior Master
Ah cool! Ah I definitely recommend still practicing your other forms at home Michele, obviously there may be technique differences between karate and TKD, but it's so much fun working on your other stuff, great to keep that fire going there. I'm gonna be trying a TKD dojang out soon when they start back up, so it shall be interesting!
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Our Naihanchi poomse are in a straight line all in a horse stance. There are three of them.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Your original school was Okinawan, right? Okinawan pronunciation is NaiFanchi, whereas Japanese is NaiHanchi (capitalized the H and F solely to make the visually stand out). Same as SaiFa (Okinawan) and SaiHa (Japanese), Bassai (Japanese) and Passai (Okinawan), and several others. From what I understand, Okinawa has a different dialect than mainland Japan.
The you get into ichi, ni, san, etc. vs shodan, nidan, sandan, etc., ie Pinan ichi vs Pinan shodan, Heian ichi vs Heian shodan, etc. In actuality they’re the same kata, just different pronunciations and numbering systems. Yes they have variation from school to school too, but for all intents and purposes they’re the same kata.
To muddy the waters even further, you have Funakoshi (Shotokan founder) who outright changed the names of kata to Japanese names to gain Japanese acceptance of them - Kusanku/Kushanku/another variation (allegedly a person’s name) to Kanku (to view the sky); Naihanchi/Naifanchi (person’s name) to Tekki (horse riding), etc.
And people wonder why it’s so hard to document the history of this stuff
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