Toolbox concept

[dvcochran]

Breaking the mould here, what if i use the toolbox itself? that is a sturdy and mighty weapon.

Unless tool box is made out of nylon.

 

[jobo]

Unless tool box is made out of nylon.

still i sturdy weapon if it has 50lbs of tools in it

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Unless tool box is made out of nylon.

Unleash your inner green beret and smother them with it!

Edit: that is perhaps the best line i have seen in any gimmicky improvised weapon book as well.

 

[Flying Crane]

Now I can see that we do have different definition of "principle".

Your definition of principle is "Shenfa - body method" such as:

- power generation,
- body coordination,
- waist/hip rotation,
- weight shifting,
- ...

My definition of principle is "find the right key to open the right lock - how to solve a certain problem."

For example, my principle of "sticky drop" is:

- You bear hug me from behind and lock both my arms inside.
- I expand both my arms side way, use a wedge force to loose your bear hug, I then drop down into a low wide horse stance.

The "wedge" concept is the key here. It can be used in many different techniques (such as my rhino guard).

Ok, what you are calling principles, I think I might call strategy or tactics, which is coupled with specific technique.

In my opinion, principles are applicable to everything in the system, they are what drives the system as a whole. Strategy or tactics are relevant to a particular situation or to a particular type of situation.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Now actually being on topic, i recall some quite good advice in "Dead or alive" By geoff thompson. Which is basically, at least learn one strike with your strong hand and then you at least have a fighting chance. (its by no means a reccomendation, just if thats all you can do you would be better off than if you didnt)

As the obvious reply would be something about grappling, if you follow the other self defence advice and also take into account not everyone gets punched while grappling, it becomes harder to actually grapple somone.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Interesting analogy about techniques being like tools. I think it is equally important if not more important to consider the craftsman using those tools and what his abilities are. A master craftsman can do a lot more with the same set of tools as an apprentice, all other things being equal. The quality of the work each produces should speak for itself. Same for the fighting arts. We can all learn techniques from Youtube and practice them until the cows come home but there is something about training under a master of the arts that cannot be achieved unless you spend time learning from the best available sources. The direction and feedback they provide is more than the sum of all the techniques that are possible to learn.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I may come up about 40 tools in my joint locking toolbox.

You're going to need several tool boxes and a dolly to carry them all. While there may be more than 40 joint locks, the mechanics of several of them will be the same.
The results of them may be different, but the technique will be the same.

For example, doing a twist on the left arm will cause the opponent to be taken down frontwards, while the same twist on the right arm will cause him to go down backwards. Yes, there will be some minor differences in foot or forearm placement, but this need not require the techniques to be considered separate, unique concepts. If you understand the concept of leverage, it is not hard to figure whether to put your leg in front or behind his. And, in either case, using your knee to pop the opponent's balance is effective.

Like people, there are more similarities between techniques than differences.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if you understand the principle(s) behind a "throw", and ingrain those principles you don't need to learn every different type of throw possible to see that concept/principle utilized.

I wish the throwing art can be learned as easy as:

Principle - push your opponent's head down, and sweep/hook his leg up.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ok, what you are calling principles, I think I might call strategy or tactics, which is coupled with specific technique.

In my opinion, principles are applicable to everything in the system, they are what drives the system as a whole. Strategy or tactics are relevant to a particular situation or to a particular type of situation.

I can see we also have different definition of "strategy". I can understand that with different definitions, sometime the discussion can be difficult.

My definition of strategy is the same as "game plan" such as:

- Use a groin kick to set up a face punch.
- Use same direction attack (E -> E).
- Use opposite direction attack (E -> W).
- Use linear attack, when your opponent resists, change into circular attack.
- Attack your opponent's back leg if you can, otherwise, attack his leading leg, when he steps back, you then attack his back leg.
- ...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

While there may be more than 40 joint locks, the mechanics of several of them will be the same.

It will be real nice that by understanding the principle, one can automatically develop techniques.

There are 8 joints on human body.

1. finger joint
2. wrist joint,
3. elbow joint,
4. shoulder joint,
5. neck joint,
6. spine joint,
7. knee joint,
8. ankle joint.

Each joint has a set of locking skill that can be different from each other.

For example,

- To bend your opponent's fingers backward is different from to separate his fingers side way.
- To twist your opponent's neck is different from to bend his neck backward.
- To bend your opponent's spine side way is different from to bend his spine backward.
- When you are on the ground, to push your opponent's foot backward, and pull his ankle forward is different from to lock his instep, and use backward kick to bend his leg.
- ...

Like people, there are more similarities between techniques than differences.

This is why when I include

- side kick, I don't include turn back kick.
- hammer fist, I don't include palm chop.
- hook punch, I don't include ridge hand, or hay-maker.
- ...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

at least learn one strike with your strong hand and then you at least have a fighting chance.

Agree with you 100% there!

One should develop at least one strike that he can knock his opponent down.

 

[Flying Crane]

I can see we also have different definition of "strategy". I can understand that with different definitions, sometime the discussion can be difficult.

My definition of strategy is the same as "game plan" such as:

- Use a groin kick to set up a face punch.
- Use same direction attack (E -> E).
- Use opposite direction attack (E -> W).
- Use linear attack, when your opponent resists, change into circular attack.
- Attack your opponent's back leg if you can, otherwise, attack his leading leg, when he steps back, you then attack his back leg.
- ...

I would call that strategy as well.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I would call that strategy as well.

So your definition of strategy include how to use

1. simple physics to solve a MA problem (such as use a kick to counter a punch).
2. plan to solve a MA problem (such as to use a pull to set up a push).

I prefer to call 1 as principle (find the right key to open the right lock), and 2 as strategy (a cheating game - plan ahead).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but you dont need principles, you need '' tricks'' that work

if a trick is dependent on a principle, then it wont work unless you apply the principle,

but what principle do you need to clamp someones head ?

The principles are what make new tricks/techniques easy to learn, help you adapt to new situations, provide the basis for tactics, etc. I think most folks are taught a range of principles, though they may never actually use that language.

At the beginning, a few basic techniques is all you need. Past the bare beginnings, it’s hard to make much progress without principles.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Now I can see that we do have different definition of "principle".

Your definition of principle is "Shenfa - body method" such as:

- power generation,
- body coordination,
- waist/hip rotation,
- weight shifting,
- ...

My definition of principle is "find the right key to open the right lock - how to solve a certain problem."

For example, my principle of "sticky drop" is:

- You bear hug me from behind and lock both my arms inside.
- I expand both my arms side way, use a wedge force to loose your bear hug, I then drop down into a low wide horse stance.

The "wedge" concept is the key here. It can be used in many different techniques (such as my rhino guard).

I would say that wedge “concept” fits my definition of “principle”, too.

 

[Flying Crane]

So your definition of strategy include how to use

1. simple physics to solve a MA problem (such as use a kick to counter a punch).
2. plan to solve a MA problem (such as to use a pull to set up a push).

I prefer to call 1 as principle (find the right key to open the right lock), and 2 as strategy (a cheating game - plan ahead).

I don’t consider 1 physics, but I would put both of these with strategy. You are describing an approach to dealing with a particular type of confrontation.

Again, the way I see principles are what drives the functionality of the system as a whole.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I would say that wedge “concept” fits my definition of “principle”, too.

the way I see principles are what drives the functionality of the system as a whole.

Here is my concern. Every MA system has

- power generation,
- body coordination,
- waist/hip rotation,
- weight shifting,
- ...

To me, those are the basic "building blocks" for that MA system and not "principles" for that MA system.

For example, the

- Taiji principles are ward off, pull back, press forward, push, ...
- Preying mantis principles are 8 hard and 12 soft (clinch, pluck, connect, hang, ... ).
- Long fist principles are dodge, spin, jump in, hop back, ...
- ...

Those all have nothing to do with power generation, body coordination, ...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I wish the throwing art can be learned as easy as:

Principle - push your opponent's head down, and sweep/hook his leg up.

I actually think it can. It just takes a while to teach the body to move and the mind to use those principles.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here is my concern. Every MA system has

- power generation,
- body coordination,
- waist/hip rotation,
- weight shifting,
- ...

To me, those are the basic "building blocks" for that MA system and not "principles" for that MA system.

For example, the

- Taiji principles are ward off, pull back, press forward, push, ...
- Preying mantis principles are 8 hard and 12 soft (clinch, pluck, connect, hang, ... ).
- Long fist principles are dodge, spin, jump in, hop back, ...
- ...

Those all have nothing to do with power generation, body coordination, ...

Most of that is semantics. I talk about principles at multiple levels. “Aiki” is a high level, conceptual principle. Breaking structure before attempting to throw is a lower level principle.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I actually think it can. It just takes a while to teach the body to move and the mind to use those principles.

How?

The leg twist and leg block use different power generation and different body method.

The leg twisting require twisting power.

The leg blocking require lifting power.