too young to train?

[tarabos]

the youngest black belt we have at our school is 24. take that for what you will. we accept children around age 5, but there aren't many that are that young. i'd say the youngest average that we get in is probably 7 years old. even then, most of their time training is spent working on what they should be working on, basics. still, i think they are promoted too fast, but that's just my opinion and not my decision to make.

i do have a problem with stripped down cirriculums for children. if you don't feel they aren't old enough to learn the system as it should be taught, then don't patronize them with some half-baked version of the system. it only winds up discouraging them when the time finally comes that they are made to start studying the "complete" cirruculum and then they feel lost, like all the years they put in before were for nothing. teaching how to punch, kick and block correctly is one thing, but when you get into the material that makes your system truly unique, nothing should be held back.

i do realize the pressures there are on studio/dojo/school owners, especially in the states, to advance a child in rank. a lot of it comes from over-zealous parents, some of it comes from unwarrented fear of losing students. all in all though, i think children are looked at more as tiny little cash cows, rather than the potential future of the art that you teach. it's an easy and seductive trap to fall into. the route of all evil indeed.

 

[moromoro]

the youngest black belt we have at our school is 24.

gee, how long has he been training?

what school is it?

 

[cas]

In karate and within styles there are shodans and shodans. This differs from countrie to countrie and from dojo to dojo.
A level of skills is not determined so much by how many techniques you know but how well you can demonstrate and aply the techniques (and it's underlying principles) you do know.
In the Netherlands dan examinations are done by the national karate association. There are offcourse different examinationboards for different styles. This gives some assurance of being on the same level.



Casper Baar

 

[vin2k0]

The youngest black belt at our club is 10, and i, personally, think it is ridiculous. There is no way that a child of 10 can be mentally ready to be a 'true' black belt, as this involves a high level of maturity and dedication.

 

[Aegis]

This is why no-one really has much respect for a black belt any more.... when 10 year olds can get one it really doesn't seem like much!

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by vin2k0
The youngest black belt at our club is 10, and i, personally, think it is ridiculous. There is no way that a child of 10 can be mentally ready to be a 'true' black belt, as this involves a high level of maturity and dedication.

They are Junior BB. In some organizations, they have to take the regular BB test when they reach 16.

 

[lucifersdad]

as kenethku said, most associations including mine make students revert back to 1st kyu as they turn senior.
our association reaslises there is a difference between a junior grade and senior grade esspecially when it comes to dan grades, thats why our "re-grade" age is 17 for dan grades were as a student takes senior kyu grades at 16.
and why do some of you guys find it hard to beleive that students, including juniors, train because they enjoy it?
and as for "holding back" when teaching, as i said before does a 10 year old really need to know how to defend themselves froma drunk dude in a bar? i think teaching them what they need to know and making their learning applicable is more important than turning out killers and philosiphers, or am i on my own here?

 

[Aegis]

My opinion is that if you want to water down your syllabus to make it appropriate to teach kids, then you shouldn't award them high grades. Give them lots of low grades to go for instead. Then they can feel as though they are advancing nice and quickly, but don't (as you put it) revert to 1st kyu at 16 where they might find themselves knowing a lot less than their peers.

 

[vin2k0]

Originally posted by KennethKu
They are Junior BB. In some organizations, they have to take the regular BB test when they reach 16.

They may well be junior BBs but i still think it is ridiculous. At the age of 15 they could be a 3rd dan???!! Surely its wrong? They do not have to re-sit thier shodan grading, but at 16 if they have passed any dans they must sit it as an 'adult'.

 

[chufeng]

The USJA (judo) has a system where there are 12 junior grades...highest is purple belt...when the student turns 17, he will hold junior purple until his first test (which would be rokkyu, yellow belt)...the other option would be to start having the junior train and compete with seniors at the age of fourteen and then begin senior promotions at that age (it is up to the discretion of the coach)...so a junior can remain a junior rank, if he chooses until his 17th birthday, or start training with adults anywhere after the age of 14.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[Aegis]

When you become an adult in the British Judo association, you're allowed to keep your junior grade for a year. After that it expires and you have to start from scratch. If during that year you satisfy the requirements (both theory and competition) for your equivalent grade, then you get to keep it. I assume that if you meet the requirements for a grade slightly lower than equivalent then you get that instead.

Bottom line is that juniors must enter the adult grading syllabus at the appropriate time or they lose their grade. Tough but fair.

 

[vin2k0]

where in britain are u? im in manchester...

 

[Aegis]

I spend half my time in the West Midlands, and the other half in the Cambridgeshire area.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by vin2k0
They may well be junior BBs but i still think it is ridiculous. At the age of 15 they could be a 3rd dan???!! Surely its wrong? They do not have to re-sit thier shodan grading, but at 16 if they have passed any dans they must sit it as an 'adult'.

3rd Dan at 15? then it is hog wash.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Mike Clarke
Dave,
I think I get your drift , but I'm still of the opinion that "Martial" arts can't be taught to a child.
What you spoke of, I call "Good Parenting!"

If one thinks of martial arts as a passtime, hobby, or something they do for 'enjoyment', then I say they are not training in Martial Arts at all. Training is too challenging to be 'enjoyable'. Too demanding to be a 'hobby', and too bloody dangerous to be a 'passtime'.

As a young yudansha I use to throw up [with nerves] on the way to training because I knew what was coming. Coming home without being exhausted and often badly brused was impossible.
My students are recieving the same education I had, no worse and no easier.

Kids can and do train in martial arts 'type' activities, but that is not the same as training in Martial Arts.
The truth is that for many instructors out there, if they didn't have a room full of kids to look after, they'ed have no students at all!

As for the philosophical side of the Arts? I'm not sure the majority of those teaching have studied their art enough to pass on such information? Philosophy is best learnt [like everything else in my opinion] through personal experience and not by reading books or quoting from some associations hand book.

In almost 30 years, I've met few who have a philosophy that grew from their own experiences. Most folk confuse information with knowledge and knowledge with wisdom. The first two you can get from outside, but the last you have to grow from within.
And you can't do that with just a few years of mediocre experiences to call on.

Anyway, this is all just my humble 2c worth.

Mike.

I can, on one hand agree with you, but on the other hand, I have seen close up what can be achieved in the life of a problem child. Sometimes the parents are to close to see what is needed, and in the case of one young child that is a big part of my life, I have seen improvements that a few short months ago, we all would have believed impossible. His parents couldn't control him, and I was the only one that he would listen to, and even then I had to be careful with the way I pushed.
Anyhoo, I signed him up at our school, and the changes were almost instantaneous.......
At home, at school, everywhere. His focus in class, is almost absolute, in fact he is quite often called upon to be the example, for the other kids. His parents and I cannot believe that he is the same child. The teaching has had a two way effect too, he is a better person for it and his parents are learning how to be better parents. It is marvellous.

I'll see your humble 2c, and raise you a modest 2c

--Dave

:asian:

 

[angrywhitepajamas]

Originally posted by arnisador
I've heard that traditionally, in Okinawan, karate training wasn't started until during- or post-puberty, say 12 or so. I don't know if it's true or so.

Many of the shools in my area won't look at you unless you are atleast 14.

And the only 15 year old 5dan I only know one and her immediate family is an average of 6 dan to 8dan.
She is the only one that I am aware of with the spunk to back it up. (the bruises are still healing )

 

[Shinzu]

if a junior is going to be a black belt, i think they should be a junior black belt. there is a difference between children and adults.

 

[moromoro]

15 year old 5th dan this is total bull ****,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

5dan for kata but not for fighting.........

 

[Shinzu]

children are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of what a black belt really is and does. there should be an age requirement in my opinion, but it would be impossible to make it a universal rule.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by angrywhitepajamas
Many of the shools in my area won't look at you unless you are atleast 14.

And the only 15 year old 5dan I only know one and her immediate family is an average of 6 dan to 8dan.
She is the only one that I am aware of with the spunk to back it up. (the bruises are still healing )

What art is that?