Too early to cross train?

[K-man]

I am currently learning WTF tae kwon do and have been for a year - just went along with a friend and didn't really realise the WTF/ITF differences or anything. I previously did ITF tae kwon do for two years as a child (so a few years ago!) but I gave up at a reasonably high level ....

From the trial I couldn't tell how sporty things were, I convinced myself it was all right, the instructors are all very good and the black belts have amazing technique and so much power and strength. I do feel like I am learning and being well-taught. However, they only do points sparring, and only at higher levels, and only do little memorised one-step defence routines, so I've basically done no fighting at all. I enjoy patterns but I don't think they are particularly functional.

I'm desperate to get better at defending myself if necessary, but at the same time I don't want to be a quitter again and leave WTF, so I'm considering taking up another martial art. The first one I'm thinking of is krav maga because apparently it focuses on real defence situations and is quite different to tae kwon do so I won't get confused. I would also like to learn capoeira, though that seems less functional, and maybe hapkido or jujitsu. (I also did judo for a brief period and found it quite different to tae kwon do. I went to a hapkido trial recently, without telling them I do tae kwon do, and while I had good strength and fitness, they had a lot to correct in my punches to make them hapkido-style, so I might get confused.)

Do you think one year (plus two years as a child) is okay for cross-training, if it's something quite different? If so, which different one should I pick? Or would I be better off quitting WTF and trying something completely new?

To paraphrase, luckiest trained in ITF for two years as a child and without realising there were significant differences has switched to WTF and has been training that for a year. Alex, he can tell the difference. It appears he has about the same TKD experience and background as you.

I would say as long as you can differentiate between styles, you are ready to branch out.

I'm not sure where in luckiest's post he says he can't differentiate between styles. I actually gave you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you meant that once you could differentiate between the basic bio mechanical methods of one style and another different martial art, so you weren't confusing the two, then it was ok to cross train. Sadly, you disappointed me ... again.

Thank you K-man, but the ability to differentiate between WTF style kicks and ITF are not difficult. He'd be making the same transition I did from WTF to ITF. I was able to learn both systems at the age of 14, and perform both separately, on command, I believe this individual can do the same. Now, if he were transitioning from say WTF tkd to hapkido, I might ask further his background. The fact he can tell you he does a 'style' of TKD alone, at least in this area, warrants some attention and worth on his part as a practitioner of the korean kicking style. You would be amazed how many do not even know which style, in WTF they are using, save Moo Duk Kwan, and Chung Do Kwan, and so forth.

Alex, very few of us are able to claim to have mastered two variations of a style by age 14. You are indeed one of the greatest martial artists I've come across. No one else I have met claims mastery of so many systems.

Can I respectfully remind you that "this individual" is "luckiest" and luckiest does not want to learn two styles of TKD. He has asked about including additional training to his programme. The question he raised was; "should I cross train or should I try a different style?" The styles he asked about specifically were KM and Hapkido or perhaps Jujutsu.

Without knowing what schools are available in the area luckiest lives, I would not make any suggestion other than to say check them all out, select the one that best suits your needs and train that system alone, even if it is the present one. I do not think that adding another system to TKD after one year of training is the way to go. It will cause just create confusion in both styles. Having said that, maybe adding BJJ would fit in, but that does not fit the original requirement of a system 'to defend myself', and it's adding time pressure when you are mastering the basics of TKD.

 

[MJS]

Alex, very few of us are able to claim to have mastered two variations of a style by age 14. You are indeed one of the greatest martial artists I've come across. No one else I have met claims mastery of so many systems.

Can I respectfully remind you that "this individual" is "luckiest" and luckiest does not want to learn two styles of TKD. He has asked about including additional training to his programme. The question he raised was; "should I cross train or should I try a different style?" The styles he asked about specifically were KM and Hapkido or perhaps Jujutsu.

Without knowing what schools are available in the area luckiest lives, I would not make any suggestion other than to say check them all out, select the one that best suits your needs and train that system alone, even if it is the present one. I do not think that adding another system to TKD after one year of training is the way to go. It will cause just create confusion in both styles. Having said that, maybe adding BJJ would fit in, but that does not fit the original requirement of a system 'to defend myself', and it's adding time pressure when you are mastering the basics of TKD.

Good points. Just to touch on a few things.

1) I have black belts in 2 arts, Kenpo and Arnis. I've done each for long periods of time. I still consider myself a student, and the word "Master" will probably never be used by me, at any point in the near future..lol. Why? Because I don't consider myself one, and I dont claim to be Master level. For anyone to say they've mastered anything by 14, I'll call BS on that all day, every day! Again, there seems to be a failure to understand by Alex. He seems to think that if you memorize the system, that somehow, that makes you a master. Umm...it doesnt. All it means is that you've memorized the stuff. However, in another post, I mentioned that its one thing to claim that you learned something, but its another when we're talking about the much more important things such as: how well can you perform the material, how well can you apply it, can you teach it, can you make it work under pressure, can you adapt should whatever it is you're doing, go south. Those, IMO, are the key things.

2) I got the impression from the OP that they hadn't spent a ton of time in their base art. That said, if in fact thats true, my suggestion was to put in more time, before taking on something else. IMO, a year isn't enough time, thus the reason why I said to wait a bit longer. Anyways, I agree with what you said....I'd check around to see whats nearby.

 

[Zenjael]

Hmm...IMO, if someone is going to cross train, I view that as a different art altogether. In other words, if you're already doing 1 style of TKD, why go to another? IMO, it'd make more sense to train in another art that complements your base. IE: Kenpo and BJJ. You have a stand up art, which deals with weapons, grabs, kicks, etc, and a ground based art. To train in Parker Kenpo and then cross train in Tracy Kenpo...well, it doesnt make sense.

Well, to me, there are masters of specific styles of tae kwon do, and masters who are true masters in that they have mastered all 7-9, given your opinion on how many there are, cross WTF/ITF regulations. Having a 4th in say Moo Duk Kwan might make me a master of that specific style, but there are 6 more to go before I master tae kwon do COMPLETELY.

To paraphrase, luckiest trained in ITF for two years as a child and without realising there were significant differences has switched to WTF and has been training that for a year. Alex, he can tell the difference. It appears he has about the same TKD experience and background as you.

Hence why I think he is at a point he can cross train and do so without obscuring styles, or hurting himself.

Alex, very few of us are able to claim to have mastered two variations of a style by age 14. You are indeed one of the greatest martial artists I've come across. No one else I have met claims mastery of so many systems.

I didn't say master, and if I did, than I was retarded and Im sorry. I've learned one style by the age of 13 (I'd say a 3rd dan qualifies for having learned), and then began to learn another.

Can I respectfully remind you that "this individual" is "luckiest" and luckiest does not want to learn two styles of TKD. He has asked about including additional training to his programme. The question he raised was; "should I cross train or should I try a different style?" The styles he asked about specifically were KM and Hapkido or perhaps Jujutsu.

That's the funny thing though, one style of chung do kwan employs a huge amount of hapkido at times. Learning another 'style' of tkd is something of a misnomer; there is one art of TKD, and 9 branches, and two flavors. Learning another style of TKD is advancing one's study of TKD as a whole, but otherwise, if one does not want to learn any of the other branches, then yes, they should not migrate to another. Hapkido is excellent in my opinion for its joint-locks.

Without knowing what schools are available in the area luckiest lives, I would not make any suggestion other than to say check them all out, select the one that best suits your needs and train that system alone, even if it is the present one. I do not think that adding another system to TKD after one year of training is the way to go. It will cause just create confusion in both styles. Having said that, maybe adding BJJ would fit in, but that does not fit the original requirement of a system 'to defend myself', and it's adding time pressure when you are mastering the basics of TKD.[/QUOTE]

Good points. Just to touch on a few things.

1) I have black belts in 2 arts, Kenpo and Arnis. I've done each for long periods of time. I still consider myself a student, and the word "Master" will probably never be used by me, at any point in the near future..lol. Why? Because I don't consider myself one, and I dont claim to be Master level. For anyone to say they've mastered anything by 14, I'll call BS on that all day, every day! Again, there seems to be a failure to understand by Alex. He seems to think that if you memorize the system, that somehow, that makes you a master. Umm...it doesnt. All it means is that you've memorized the stuff. However, in another post, I mentioned that its one thing to claim that you learned something, but its another when we're talking about the much more important things such as: how well can you perform the material, how well can you apply it, can you teach it, can you make it work under pressure, can you adapt should whatever it is you're doing, go south. Those, IMO, are the key things.

2) I got the impression from the OP that they hadn't spent a ton of time in their base art. That said, if in fact thats true, my suggestion was to put in more time, before taking on something else. IMO, a year isn't enough time, thus the reason why I said to wait a bit longer. Anyways, I agree with what you said....I'd check around to see whats nearby.

 

[MJS]

Well, to me, there are masters of specific styles of tae kwon do, and masters who are true masters in that they have mastered all 7-9, given your opinion on how many there are, cross WTF/ITF regulations. Having a 4th in say Moo Duk Kwan might make me a master of that specific style, but there are 6 more to go before I master tae kwon do COMPLETELY.

7-9 what? Styles of TKD?

 

[puunui]

Well, to me, there are masters of specific styles of tae kwon do, and masters who are true masters in that they have mastered all 7-9, given your opinion on how many there are, cross WTF/ITF regulations. Having a 4th in say Moo Duk Kwan might make me a master of that specific style, but there are 6 more to go before I master tae kwon do COMPLETELY.

What are the seven/nine styles of taekwondo?

 

[puunui]

7-9 what? Styles of TKD?

I think he is talking about 7-9 kwan, but hard to tell.

 

[Zenjael]

7-9 what? Styles of TKD?

Depending who you speak with, yes. There is of course WTF and ITF tae kwon do, but this is less about styles and more about regulations for competition. Tae Kwon Do, as a generality, has kind of 3 branches. 4 styles take their inspiration from Taekkyon, and look pretty much the same, while there are 2 styles which took their inspiration from karate, imported from Japan during the occupation. The last is Oh Do Kwan, which is a style of Tae Kwon Do designed specifically for people at leave 6 feet tall, or 200 pounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwans

I have experience with all but song moo kwan, han moo kwan, and kang duk kwan. When I have learned those 3, I will considerable myself actually knowledgeable of tkd. Chung Do Kwan (ITF) Moo Duk Kwan (Wtf) Jidokwan (-) Chang Moo Kwan (-) are the arts in TKD I can practice. I know Oh Do Kwan, but I am far too small to really effectuate its moves as they're intended... which are mainly to slam the opponent. But, can't hurt to learn how to do it, I might have to stomp side kick a midget someday...