To Clyde

[Jagdish]

Sir:

I have red twice that Bob Bremer once told you in your studio that you were teaching better JKD than most jkd instrtuctors.
From a technical point of view: What was it that you were teaching? I think is a good compliment when everybody knows that ther only few guys that can make JKD work.

Yours,

Jagdish:rofl:

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

it was Glancing Salute but I'm not 100% sure. He liked what I doing, or maybe the fact I stayed anchored and fused with my action was probably what he keyed in on most. He did make a very specific point of bringing it up tho, that I remember.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Michael Billings]

When I saw one of Dan Inosanto's senior students doing a variation of Returning the Storm, it made me realize that the Inosanto branch of JKD had retained some of the Kenpo roots Dan comes from.

So they think you are teaching JKD huh? I find that very interesting. I was teaching Triggered Salute when my JKD partner commented on the similarities.

Later

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
When I saw one of Dan Inosanto's senior students doing a variation of Returning the Storm, it made me realize that the Inosanto branch of JKD had retained some of the Kenpo roots Dan comes from.

So they think you are teaching JKD huh? I find that very interesting. I was teaching Triggered Salute when my JKD partner commented on the similarities.

Later

I think Darting Mace looks very JKDish myself, it may have even been that technique that he was seeing as they are almost identical techniques in the first two moves (Glancing Salute), just done on a different plane of the Universal Pattern. Those centerline vertical punches have applications everywhere.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
I think Darting Mace looks very JKDish myself, it may have even been that technique that he was seeing as they are almost identical techniques in the first two moves (Glancing Salute), just done on a different plane of the Universal Pattern. Those centerline vertical punches have applications everywhere.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

So do you think a kenpoist would benefit from JKD? Or is it another example of just finding the same answers within our own system because they are there?

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by brianhunter
So do you think a kenpoist would benefit from JKD? Or is it another example of just finding the same answers within our own system because they are there?

It would only be of benefit if the practicioner wasn't getting taught the material and had to outsource for more info. Personally, I don't see the need to train outside of Kenpo, as we well know LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
It would only be of benefit if the practicioner wasn't getting taught the material and had to outsource for more info. Personally, I don't see the need to train outside of Kenpo, as we well know LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

As with any other system/style anywhere else. That can apply everywhere and anytime. :asian:

 

[satans.barber]

I don't understand this JKD thing - I've watched an hour long Dan Inosanto JKD seminar/instructive thing on tape, and all the way though it he kept saying 'JKD is not a style, it's a concept' and was basically teaching a variety of martial arts in one school, and then also teaching people how to switch between them.

But, I then read or hear people saying 'That looks like JKD' or 'That's a JKD straight blast' or 'he used xyz move from JKD'.....so which is it?

Is it part eclecticism and part fixed syllabus, all fixed syllabus or entirely eclectic? If it's entirely eclectic, how can anything possibly 'look like JKD' or be 'similar to JKD'?

This has been confusing me for some time!

Ian.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by satans.barber
I don't understand this JKD thing - I've watched an hour long Dan Inosanto JKD seminar/instructive thing on tape, and all the way though it he kept saying 'JKD is not a style, it's a concept' and was basically teaching a variety of martial arts in one school, and then also teaching people how to switch between them.

But, I then read or hear people saying 'That looks like JKD' or 'That's a JKD straight blast' or 'he used xyz move from JKD'.....so which is it?

Is it part eclecticism and part fixed syllabus, all fixed syllabus or entirely eclectic? If it's entirely eclectic, how can anything possibly 'look like JKD' or be 'similar to JKD'?

This has been confusing me for some time!

Ian.

Not being an active practicioner of JKD, I would have no idea.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by brianhunter
So do you think a kenpoist would benefit from JKD? Or is it another example of just finding the same answers within our own system because they are there?

I think that there is something that can be learned from every art. If you find something in JKD that you like and that you can make work and add it to your training to make yourself more well rounded, go for it!


Personally, I don't see the need to train outside of Kenpo, as we well know LOL.

Well, I guess we are all entitled to our opinions. Fortunately, there are others that dont think like that!

Mike

 

[Jagdish]

Originally posted by satans.barber
I don't understand this JKD thing - I've watched an hour long Dan Inosanto JKD seminar/instructive thing on tape, and all the way though it he kept saying 'JKD is not a style, it's a concept' and was basically teaching a variety of martial arts in one school, and then also teaching people how to switch between them.

But, I then read or hear people saying 'That looks like JKD' or 'That's a JKD straight blast' or 'he used xyz move from JKD'.....so which is it?

Is it part eclecticism and part fixed syllabus, all fixed syllabus or entirely eclectic? If it's entirely eclectic, how can anything possibly 'look like JKD' or be 'similar to JKD'?

This has been confusing me for some time!

Ian.

Yes! It's very confusing. However this confusion comes from lacking of proper knowledge from the exposers.If you want to explain something then you must have enough skill not only to communicate but to know your thing. This last part is what most miss.

JKD has a physical style to express through. Their concept of liberalization come from the individual: not limiting himself to fight only in one way or within some rules.

Yours,

Jagdish:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by satans.barber
I don't understand this JKD thing - I've watched an hour long Dan Inosanto JKD seminar/instructive thing on tape, and all the way though it he kept saying 'JKD is not a style, it's a concept' and was basically teaching a variety of martial arts in one school, and then also teaching people how to switch between them.

But, I then read or hear people saying 'That looks like JKD' or 'That's a JKD straight blast' or 'he used xyz move from JKD'.....so which is it?

Is it part eclecticism and part fixed syllabus, all fixed syllabus or entirely eclectic? If it's entirely eclectic, how can anything possibly 'look like JKD' or be 'similar to JKD'?

This has been confusing me for some time!

Ian.

You are right. JKD is a "training concept" not a style. There are no techniques per se in JKD. Since Bruce Lee's passing many have taught their interpretation of the concept, adding techniques, transitions, grapling, etc. Wait! Doesn't that sound familiar?

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Doc
You are right. JKD is a "training concept" not a style. There are no techniques per se in JKD. Since Bruce Lee's passing many have taught their interpretation of the concept, adding techniques, transitions, grapling, etc. Wait! Doesn't that sound familiar?

Doc,
What is your definition of a training style, a system, and an art? And, where does American Kenpo fit in?

Sincerely,
Billy :asian:

 

[Elijah J.]

Billy, you're back! Oh that is wonderful. I see that both you and Clyde have those great knight shields for your picture when you post. How do I get one? I kind of liked Clyde's pony tail picture that he had up previous. Too bad he switched huh? Please get back to me Billy.

Elijah

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Elijah J.
Billy, you're back! Oh that is wonderful. I see that both you and Clyde have those great knight shields for your picture when you post. How do I get one? I kind of liked Clyde's pony tail picture that he had up previous. Too bad he switched huh? Please get back to me Billy.

Elijah

Hey Seig, ck this IP too, I just gotta feeling this is the same old thing again.

Clyde

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
Doc,
What is your definition of a training style, a system, and an art? And, where does American Kenpo fit in?

Sincerely,
Billy :asian:

Well Sir,

Style

“Individuality presented in a particular method of execution or expression.”

System

“An organized and coordinated method and/or procedure. The level and sophistication of that system varies.”

Art.

“The execution of a particular concept, as found in works of aesthetic value in a field or category of a nonscientific branch of learning.” - Webster

In my opinion, there is no “training style” only “personal style” expressed within the context of an artistic endeavor. The martial “arts” are aptly named for its personal interpretation of an “artistic ideal” as symbolized by its teacher and passed to the student who in turn expresses it with their own personal style within the limitations of the art as taught.

The root of the so-called “style” comes from the Chinese who had only one martial science, but many different components that made up the whole. Different teachers chose to focus on particular aspects of the science creating personal training methods and focus. This has often been misinterpreted and translated as a particular style meaning “their style of training.” But this is a misuse of the term in translation. The teacher gives his personal method and what you do with it is your style or expression of the science.

Than, other cultures took license of the information, and began to interpret it artistically and not necessarily functionally, creating actual martial styles based in part on cultural/religious preferences and philosophies. But built within these “arts” is THE style. In other words you may not change the expression but must adhere to the “style” of the master and embrace it as “your style” as well.

This is most common in the Okinawan/Japanese Traditional Disciplines, placing the emphasis on the “style” or “how” you perform over and above all else. The master of the discipline thus dictated the “style.” Anyone who deviated from the master had to break away because if you did not perform it exactly as the master dictated, you were not doing “his style,” therefore you had to break away and create your own “style.” It is these type arts that "lineage" became important, and is less so in more conceptual arts where "function over form" is the order of the day.

This is where most of the expressions and differences in style names came from. Anyone can create a “style” or “art” as it is today, but not everyone can create a “functioning system” and almost no one understands the science. The original science is not to be interpreted, only learned. Style, Art, System, are all subjective terms but science must be learned first before it may be deciphered or interpreted, and that excludes personal preferences. However, once it is learned, how you utilize it makes it a style. The major differences lie in whether your style is artistic, or scientific based in my opinion.

Your style is your expression. It may have as little or as much invested, as you desire. You may view an art and decide to express it yourself tomorrow. Whether it is good or bad will be determined by you, for it is your expression only. True science cannot be approached in the same manner. Its foundation must be learned from a competent source to establish a base for personal interpretation but only within the confines of the science itself.

Where American Kenpo fits depends upon the interpretation. The most common is the commercial version based on concepts of “motion.” This is most like JKD which is a training concept, but AK is much more systematic, but still limited to the boundaries of its conceptual base of syllabus teaching. This is intentional to promote individual functional style over instructor preference because its overall goal is function by and for the individual first over “artistic” endeavors or the propagation of the style itself. This is why students of AK, in general, make its worse teachers. However there are some who have gone beyond the superficial and have taken their interpretation to significance, but because of their own personal intelligence and experience, not from the general conceptual syllabus. As I have often said, the quality of American Kenpo lies in the hands of its good teachers, not in any written works of Ed Parker’s guides to concepts.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Doc,
Iv'e read that you did not practice Motion based Kenpo. Could you explain what you do practice, or rather, what your base is. I think I practice motion based Kenpo but I'm not sure I understand what the alternative is. I am in Kenpo 2000 if that gives you any idea about where my head is at.
Just curious
Sean

 

[Michael Billings]

Interesting post! I understand and agree with your "definitions" and conceptual framework, but I did not quite get the:

Orig Posted by Doc

This is why students of AK, in general, make its worse teachers. However there are some who have gone beyond the superficial and have taken their interpretation to significance, but because of their own personal intelligence and experience, not from the general conceptual syllabus. As I have often said, the quality of American Kenpo lies in the hands of its good teachers, not in any written works of Ed Parker’s guides to concepts.

I agree in that how could it be otherwise, for good or ill, in the context of "How good a teacher you are. Your, "in general" statement ... as compared to what? Any System's Instructors make their "own worst ... and own best teachers." How could it be otherwise?

Scratching my head cause I cannot think this early with no caffine yet.

-MB

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Jagdish


I have red twice that Bob Bremer once told you in your studio that you were teaching better JKD than most jkd instrtuctors.

something is definitely wrong here. How can a person blame to learn and teach *american kenpo* and end up receiving "better JKD teaching" from another person ???

shouldn't he SUPPOSE TO receive "better AMERICAN KENPO teaching" from that person ?

perhaps, JKD and American kenpo are the same name ???? or their techniques are the same ??????? I doubt it . 2 different styles

There are 2 possibilities

1- A person who gave that comment didn't know what he was talking. Perhaps, confused the different of 2 styles????? OR

2-A person who gave that comment knew what he was talking and *the person who received that comment* does not teach *the ACTUAL american kenpo techniques* ????

I read some post HERE which mentioned about somebody in american kenpo *teach* or *show* weapon technique or any techniques of American Kenpo to Bruce lee.

I'll be very interested in hearing somebody mentioning about the SIMILIARITY techniques between american kenpo and JKD. Perhaps, they can tell me which techniques in JKD is the same or similar to American kenpo

Ooooop, Bruce Lee is not here any more. Perhaps, Bruce lee's top student can jump in and tell the different between JKD and American Kenpo.

One thing i know for FACT is if the techniques of JKD and American Kenpo are the same, we would not have 2 different NAMES.

if you see any JKD instructor teach American Kenpo, only that instructor does that NOT BRUCE LEE

peace

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Hey Seig, ck this IP too, I just gotta feeling this is the same old thing again.

Clyde

I'm looking into it.