To bow is subservient

[stabpunch]

Is there any bowing in your art of Hakarac?

we punch our knuckles together. we have respect and i have respect.

 

[stabpunch]

This is not to say i will not show you respect when it is due. If your culture permits me to bow in an offering of respect then i may do so. Remember i may not respect your position in my experience so don't be offended if i miss a clue that you are revered in your culture.

For the culture toters out there i thought i explained out the cultural significance here... Could one be more polite than to say should your culture permit i may bow. Not may as in i might. As in may I.

As for the a hole comment that is heaps funny. You don't have to kiss mine i'll fold you in half and you can kiss yours, that's a top comment.

Eh if you're of eastern origin and it's your culture fine. In the dojo in Perth it seems silly, my culture is the knuckle and the high five would you leave me hanging? Probably not as too i wouln't ever leave a bow hanging. I just don't see it relevant to my environment.

Ok subservient was a little extreme, perhaps out of place in a self preservation/self defense class is more to the point.

great posts guys. I love the way you are all serious about respect in your own ways and arts, it is a great thing to see martial artisits defend respect.

 

[tkd_jen]

great posts guys. I love the way you are all serious about respect in your own ways and arts, it is a great thing to see martial artisits defend respect.

Stabpunch, I think you hit it right on the head here. People are very adament about respect. I bow to show I respect my partner and that I am ready to begin training. We are taught to get respect you have to first give respect and I have no problem with that.

 

[stabpunch]

Thanks Jen

I have learned many things from this thread. Respect is very important to martial artists of all forms. Respect can be shown in many ways, most of which transcend spoken word. IMO Respect is an integral part of martial arts. I appreciate all of the comments clearly designed to protect me, give me the information to protect myself and anyone i might offend.

As not to leave anyone hanging.

:asian:

 

[Marginal]

I hold my friends in the greatest reverance, i respect them more than anything else in this world. Maybe sometimes you might catch me bowing to them.

If you wear a black belt with any number of cotton lines i will not bow to you unless you render me useless and even then i will not slump and bow to you.

Not many arts I've ever heard of demand kowtowing.

 

[jks9199]

For the culture toters out there i thought i explained out the cultural significance here... Could one be more polite than to say should your culture permit i may bow. Not may as in i might. As in may I.

As for the a hole comment that is heaps funny. You don't have to kiss mine i'll fold you in half and you can kiss yours, that's a top comment.

Eh if you're of eastern origin and it's your culture fine. In the dojo in Perth it seems silly, my culture is the knuckle and the high five would you leave me hanging? Probably not as too i wouln't ever leave a bow hanging. I just don't see it relevant to my environment.

Ok subservient was a little extreme, perhaps out of place in a self preservation/self defense class is more to the point.

great posts guys. I love the way you are all serious about respect in your own ways and arts, it is a great thing to see martial artisits defend respect.

Yeah, I probably would ignore you.

You're coming across as an arrogant blowhard here.

I don't know what you're really like; I have only your words here... but they aren't reflecting well on you.

If bows aren't part of your training, that's fine. That's your business, and your training. If you choose to train in an environment where they are used and expected -- you ought to be willing to do them, or go somewhere else.

Respect goes beyond a simple motion, and it's quite possible to respect a person's position/title/ranking without respecting the person, but I'm not seeing much respect for anyone who's different in your posts.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Ya beat me to asking that...I bow to everyone white belt to 9 Dan..To me it's a sign of respect...

Me to!! I have bowed very solomly to a bunch of kyu ranks at another dojo for allowing my to teach them. Nothing wrong with it. Its asain culture as it is tradition in the martial arts.

 

[Last Fearner]

Interesting point here - - I have never had a problem with bowing as a greeting, or as a sign of respect in the Martial Art custom. I teach it, and perform it regularly for the many reasons described by others here who have defined the difference between mutual respect, and subservient submission. It is not what you are doing, but why you are doing it.

The thing that some might find odd, is that I choose not to bow in the case of greeting foreign royalty. If I am in the presence of a King or Queen, and I am told that I should bow - - I would not. I would smile, and politely shake hands if offered, but I hold to a belief in the American philosophy that ALL citizens of America are of equal status, and hold the highest authority in the land (equal to that of a King or Queen). I do not acknowledge the inherent authority of a "Royal Ruling Family" which requires its "subjects" and "servants" to bow (No disrespect intended to those who live under a Monarchy or Dictatorship - its just not my way of thinking). That would be the wrong kind of bow, for the wrong reasons, in my opinion.

CM D.J. Eisenhart