TMA going underground

[isshinryuronin]

There have been times when TMA was suppressed by the government in China and Okinawa, but it found ways to live on. Check out this video and see one way this was done.

If you are familiar with Kusanku, passai or pinan 4 you recognize some of their moves in this dance. The several moves after .25, .42, 1.07 and 1.42 in the video. There are better examples of Okinawan folk dance with hidden karate, but I really like this one. Very entertaining and charming as well.

 

[Hot Lunch]

There have been times when TMA was suppressed by the government in China and Okinawa, but it found ways to live on. Check out this video and see one way this was done.

In China too? This is kind of surprising. What I understand is that Mao was inspired by the Boxer Rebellion and, just a few years ago, a Chinese MMA fighter got demoted in "social credit rating" (or whatever it's called) by the Chinese government for defeating a traditional Chinese martial artist in a fight.

 

[HighKick]

There have been times when TMA was suppressed by the government in China and Okinawa, but it found ways to live on. Check out this video and see one way this was done.

If you are familiar with Kusanku, passai or pinan 4 you recognize some of their moves in this dance. The several moves after .25, .42, 1.07 and 1.42 in the video. There are better examples of Okinawan folk dance with hidden karate, but I really like this one. Very entertaining and charming as well.

Did the dance learn from the form or did the form learn from the dance? I have no idea. Yes, there are similarities but c'mon man, they could be from a hundred other things as well.

 

[Buka]

It was rather charming.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Did the dance learn from the form or did the form learn from the dance? I have no idea. Yes, there are similarities but c'mon man, they could be from a hundred other things as well.

I don't think the professional warriors who often trained in China would look to local traditional dances for inspiration. In dance there can be individual moves resembling MA by coincidence as there are only so many ways to move your limbs. But when two or three moves are linked together in an uncommon way, along with a specific footwork, and almost perfectly matches with a kata sequence, IMO this goes beyond coincidence and should be seen as deliberate.

I had to search a bit, but the dance video is of "Hatomabushi" and is considered to contain karate moves. I'm not sure if that is the name of that specific dance, or the type of dance. Hatoma is an Okinawan island close to Taiwan and bushi refers to warrior. This idea is not something I made up. Many years ago, I read of such a thing, and more recently have heard it mentioned by a high-ranking sensei who spent many years in Okinawa.

The question is not if, but why. Whether it was done to preserve and protect some of the art or to give access to the non-warrior commoners, or just for fun. I really don't know. Knowing when the dance was created would help.

 

[Haruhiko]

Mao was inspired by the Boxer Rebellion

Only insofar as they represented an anti-imperialist resistance. He liked that bit. He didn't like the cultural expression/tendency of the boxers to cling on to old Qing Dynasty traditions and Chinese mysticism.

He was inspired mainly by Lenin and Marx.

just a few years ago, a Chinese MMA fighter got demoted in "social credit rating" (or whatever it's called) by the Chinese government for defeating a traditional Chinese martial artist in a fight

Not surprised at all, the CCP has made great efforts in reviving national pride through the arts (not just martial).

Would love to see footage of the fight though, or any article about it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Would love to see footage of the fight though, or any article about it.

You aren't missing anything. It was like watching a beginner who has never sparred.

 

[marvin8]

Not surprised at all, the CCP has made great efforts in reviving national pride through the arts (not just martial).

Would love to see footage of the fight though, or any article about it.

Wikipedia: Xu's credit rating was lowered to the point where he could not rent, own property, stay in certain hotels, travel on high speed rail, or buy plane tickets.[17][18] The restrictions were lifted [in 2019] after he paid US$40,000 in both legal fees and the cost of placing the apology.[19].

 

[Haruhiko]

Wikipedia: Xu's credit rating was lowered to the point where he could not rent, own property, stay in certain hotels, travel on high speed rail, or buy plane tickets.[17][18] The restrictions were lifted [in 2019] after he paid US$40,000 in both legal fees and the cost of placing the apology.[19].

Oof. That's brutal.

Shouldn't have been sanctioned in the first place.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Oof. That's brutal.

Shouldn't have been sanctioned in the first place.

It wasn't brutal in any measure. China's pride was hurt more than anything else which is why it was a big deal. That part was the brutal part. But it didn't have to hurt their pride had they not tried to shape the image of what people were seeing. If we had the same thing play out in any other country, it wouldn't even make the local news.

In short, it didn't line up with China's "cultural and national values." China was proud of its martial arts after it defanged much of it and then when it beaten by an "Outside System" it hurt the pride of the government.

Note that throughout the drama the blame is put on the MMA guy and no one entertained the thought that the people he defeated should train harder or better. Which is ironic because work hard is how Kung Fu is defined. "Skill achieved through hard work and practice." In any other country, that definition would have summed up what the loser needs to do. Gain better skills through hard work and practice. But China's response was the opposite of the values of Kung Fu that they claim to cherish. They blamed the guy who won for winning instead of telling the guy who lost that he should train better.

The good news is that many martial art schools who bought into the image of martial arts that the world wanted to see, understood what the fight really highlighted. It opened their eyes to the fact that their training was lacking. They used the pride of their lineage and claimed to possess similar skill even though many of them have not used it. One of the things I'm very cautious of are people who speak too much of their lineage and not enough about what they do.

My perspective of lineage is that I should not speak proudly of my lineage if I lack the ability to use what I'm taught. I should be quiet on such things as I'm the least able to represent those things. I train Jow Ga kung and I always try to be a good representation of it. But you will never hear me brag about my lineage because I feel that I have not gotten to the point where I can represent Jow Ga at that high quality level.

Students sometimes exploit their lineage. Lineage isn't meant for their personal gain; it's a quality standard they should aim to meet."

To claim to know and understand a martial arts system without having the ability to use it is dishonest. There is nothing wrong with knowing half of something so long as that is what the person is claiming.

China got caught claiming something they don't practice and was embarrassed by the truth. The government could have distanced itself from that fight by saying, this is why one must work hard so that they are not lacking in ability to compete against others. There were tons of ways that they could have approached this issue and save face. Instead, they blamed the winner for winning.

 

[Buka]

What are the literal translations of Kung Fu in Chinese and Mandarin ?

 

[isshinryuronin]

What are the literal translations of Kung Fu in Chinese and Mandarin ?

I've been wondering..........What the heck does "Buka" mean?

 

[Haruhiko]

I've been wondering..........What the heck does "Buka" mean?

Discourteous, I think. The "bu" phoneme in Mandarin indicates "not/negative-of".

EDIT:
I remember! The "ka"/<kə> means a sentiment of politeness. So "Buka"/<bū-kə> would be close to "not polite".

It wasn't brutal in any measure.

The MMA dude, after dropping the other bloke, continued to ground and pound. I know that's normal in the UFC but....... that's not UFC.

Which reminds me - the UFC is about fighting, not about the art of fighting. But that's my hot take for the day.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I've been wondering..........What the heck does "Buka" mean?

Discourteous, I think. The "bu" phoneme in Mandarin indicates "not/negative-of".

EDIT:
I remember! The "ka"/<kə> means a sentiment of politeness. So "Buka"/<bū-kə> would be close to "not polite".

Well, that explains a lot.

 

[Haruhiko]

Well, that explains a lot.

I just realised you were referring to @Buka

So in this case I have no idea.

 

[Buka]

I've been wondering..........What the heck does "Buka" mean?

I first got a dog when I was thirty two years old. And I had to wait a couple of years until the breeder knew me well enough to sell me one of his dogs. He bred American Pit Bull Terriers and wouldn’t sell them to anyone who might use them for dog fighting.

After that wait, a litter of pups was born. On my birthday. I took that as a good sign.

I bartended on Cape Cod in the summer. The first time I saw the Liqueur, Sambuca, I liked the word. Wanted the dog I was waiting for to be named that. But I wanted to change the spelling. His full name on his United Kennel Club papers was Lord Zambuka of Redmar.

Redmar was the kennel he came from. We just called him Buka. To this day he was the gentlest and happiest dog I’ve ever met. Friends used to borrow him to play with their small children. He was 92 pounds of Black wiggling doggie.

When I joined the forum I choose his nickname for my handle.

 

[Buka]

I've been wondering..........What the heck does "Buka" mean?

I tried to load his photo, but it wouldn’t let me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The MMA dude, after dropping the other bloke, continued to ground and pound. I know that's normal in the UFC but....... that's not UFC.

It's normal for claiming that you can beat someone in a challenge fight. What happened here is the same thing that Wang has been saying for a while now about challenge fights. People will lie and say that they won just because you didn't want to fight or because you didn't agree to fight on a specific date.

If I want to test my skills, then I'm not going to do it in a challenge fight. Challenge fights are always personal.

 

[Buka]

This is Buka on his thirteenth birthday. Him and I went to the best steakhouse in eastern New England at the time, The Hilltop, and got two fillet mignons to go, and ate them in the car. We did that every birthday.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And here I thought it was baka.