TKD working together
- Thread starter terryl965
- Start date
Marginal
Senior Master
I beleive it's possible, but it requires folks to put aside their egos (including the in your face humility they're so proud of as well). With higher ranks and automatic authorty stemming from the higher rank, ego becomes harder to quash.
For example, as long as someone can say "I'm a higher rank than you. Do what I say." you're going to end up with a politically driven organization. Most breaks in orgs tend to occur when a lower rank decides that they know best. Then they form an org with "no politics" while keeping the exact same pseudo millitary/neo confuscionist social structure they were bridling against in the first place. (Established marketing wins over democratic principle in short.)
It also stems from the nature of the art. In a lot of respects it's an individualistic pursuit. Self-defense is an inherently selfish lens to view the world through, your technique is only going to be as good as you're willing to make it, you can't spar unless you are willing to hit people etc. You can say it's about moral development, but you don't need to learn how to kick people to accomplish that, and the prevalence of egos in the art and sport tend to hint that the MA's don't really cultivate moral development quite as we'd like them to.
(I know this sounds overly negative, but somone should play the devil's advocate once and awhile.)
Really, it comes down to folks who don't always agree being willing to compromise, or at least be willing to co-exist as our differences aren't all that great. It is possible. Just look at the participants on this forum. Most of us manage to get along.
For example, as long as someone can say "I'm a higher rank than you. Do what I say." you're going to end up with a politically driven organization. Most breaks in orgs tend to occur when a lower rank decides that they know best. Then they form an org with "no politics" while keeping the exact same pseudo millitary/neo confuscionist social structure they were bridling against in the first place. (Established marketing wins over democratic principle in short.)
It also stems from the nature of the art. In a lot of respects it's an individualistic pursuit. Self-defense is an inherently selfish lens to view the world through, your technique is only going to be as good as you're willing to make it, you can't spar unless you are willing to hit people etc. You can say it's about moral development, but you don't need to learn how to kick people to accomplish that, and the prevalence of egos in the art and sport tend to hint that the MA's don't really cultivate moral development quite as we'd like them to.
(I know this sounds overly negative, but somone should play the devil's advocate once and awhile.)
Really, it comes down to folks who don't always agree being willing to compromise, or at least be willing to co-exist as our differences aren't all that great. It is possible. Just look at the participants on this forum. Most of us manage to get along.
MSUTKD
Purple Belt
Miles is right, it can happen. If people actually "live up" to their rank it will work. I think we should all help each other out. I know for a fact that Miles would have my students backs if they needed him and I would have his. We come from different teachers but share the same love and passion for teaching and martial arts.
There is a big mess to clean up and we will all have to work together. Many people have rank problems (not getting real kukkiwons and such) or do not have anyone above them who can help with promotions. We can all help each other here. It does not have to be some type of organization, just friends who help each other. It is not rank that gets in the way, it is politics. Just like Miles said, "We are all instructors."
ron
There is a big mess to clean up and we will all have to work together. Many people have rank problems (not getting real kukkiwons and such) or do not have anyone above them who can help with promotions. We can all help each other here. It does not have to be some type of organization, just friends who help each other. It is not rank that gets in the way, it is politics. Just like Miles said, "We are all instructors."
ron
OP
OP
MSUTKD said:
Ron I hope it is alright to call you that, the more I see you post the more you the type of TKD'er I would enjoy training with. Miles I would always train with he is a great guy in my eyes as well. Any of you going to the Meet and greet this year for MT or maybe the AAU nationals in Knoxville in July 3-8 if so maybe we can meet and get to know each other better.
Terry
Working together is a great goal, and meeting people from other areas and other organizations on boards such as this is a good place to start. I agree with Marginal that the egos of some seniors have a negative impact on the process. This has led to break-offs from various organizations, fighting within various organizations, and so on - to the detriment of the students, who are, after all, the reason instructors and organizations are there.
For myself, I have always been surrounded by a lot of seniors... so while I do attach significance to my rank, I am very aware that there is always someone (or several someones) who knows more, has more experience, etc... whether we are talking about in TKD or out. On the other hand, I am considerably less awed by seniority as the only factor than I was when I started - aided by the fact that my instructor and seniors look at me funny when I add to conversation, and then ask why I didn't speak up sooner.
Do I see the various organizations that exist coming together? Coming from the ITF, I would have to say not - the personalities that Marginal mentions work against it. However, I see hope for the future because students from different organizations talk together, and sometimes work together, as smaller organizations open their events for financial reasons, creating ties between those groups than can blossom if tended properly.
For myself, I have always been surrounded by a lot of seniors... so while I do attach significance to my rank, I am very aware that there is always someone (or several someones) who knows more, has more experience, etc... whether we are talking about in TKD or out. On the other hand, I am considerably less awed by seniority as the only factor than I was when I started - aided by the fact that my instructor and seniors look at me funny when I add to conversation, and then ask why I didn't speak up sooner.
Do I see the various organizations that exist coming together? Coming from the ITF, I would have to say not - the personalities that Marginal mentions work against it. However, I see hope for the future because students from different organizations talk together, and sometimes work together, as smaller organizations open their events for financial reasons, creating ties between those groups than can blossom if tended properly.
Kacey said:
I am encouraged also by the fact that students talk & work together to try to understand each other. It just bothers me that the "powers that be" focus too much on the control, $$ money, & power to be had (did I mention ego?) to want to open themselves up to other ideas & "those" people over there.
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