Tibet resigned to no help

[Sukerkin]

It's hard to know what to contribute to a thread like this, let alone what to do about situations like Tibet and Taiwan.

One thing is certain, after a millenium of slumber, China is waking up again and realising the sway they can have in the global theatre, just like America has in recent decades. If I was a betting man, I would say that it will not be long before America and China are building a conflict - whether it is 'hot' or 'cold' I cannot decide.

If America choses the 'battlefield' then I would guess at 'cold' or very hot.

Of course, if there were any sense in the world then First World governments would force open the blind eyes of economic short-termism and sever the monetary flows that are feeding the maw of the resurgent Asian Dragon.

 

[newGuy12]

Of course, if there were any sense in the world then First World governments would force open the blind eyes of economic short-termism and sever the monetary flows that are feeding the maw of the resurgent Asian Dragon.

China thinks in the long term, and they will own the US soon enough. Because of their patience, they fully deserve to. I am very impressed with their long term thinking, and very disgusted with the short term thinking of the U.S.

 

[MA-Caver]

It's hard to know what to contribute to a thread like this, let alone what to do about situations like Tibet and Taiwan.

One thing is certain, after a millennium of slumber, China is waking up again and realizing the sway they can have in the global theater, just like America has in recent decades. If I was a betting man, I would say that it will not be long before America and China are building a conflict - whether it is 'hot' or 'cold' I cannot decide.

If America choses the 'battlefield' then I would guess at 'cold' or very hot.

Of course, if there were any sense in the world then First World governments would force open the blind eyes of economic short-termism and sever the monetary flows that are feeding the maw of the resurgent Asian Dragon.

I think one of the key things that China is counting on is America's commitment to a heated conflict or I should say the lack of it. China's population is roughly a 1/3rd of the world's population (give or take). Ideally they can afford the massive loss of life during an exchange, since they've shown no compunction in large scale casualties with their own people (Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989 ... they still refuse to disclose actual body counts though estimates are around 2-3K). Likewise they could just use North Korea who seems to be itching for a fight with somebody somewhere... all China has to do is cut the leash and provide support... even if it's just logistically. To think that China isn't holding reins on North Korea is naive IMO. Kinda like big brother to little brother with both of them being bullies only big brother lets little brother go only so far. Then they have Vietnam and whomever else they got under their thumb... say ... Cuba? They can also invite by special invitation anyone else that wants to hurt America (Iran, Lybia, etc.)
While America's total population approximates that of China's foot soldiers alone, plus we're pretty spread out in terms of troops and are currently engaged where the oil is. I'm sure we would not sustain for very long (even with euro-allies) in a heated fight with China, so it's not in our best interest to look cross-eyed at them... and they know it.

At least I hope our current leaders know this.
We can protest and hue and cry and they (China) will just shrug their shoulders and ask..."ah well, anyway are you guys still coming to the party?" (Olympics)

 

[Sukerkin]

That was most insightful. Caver.

China's armies have historically never fared well when challenged - the Japanese were the latest to prove that.

They are, however, huge and now they have nukes which I agree they would have little compunction about using as the leadership does not fear the damage retaliatory strikes would deliver.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Both Tibet and Taiwan are part of a long-term strategy on the part of the People's Republic to regather all those parts of China lost during European extraterritoriality. Taiwan was lost to the Japanese, Hong Kong and Tibet to the British, etc. They are not going to give up their claims to these places because they consider them to be part of China.

That's not so good for the Tibetans because the world has realised that the Dragon is awake and paying attention to what is going on around it again. This is a massive, powerful nation with a violently expansive economy and enormous military. Hell, the PLA's officer corps is almost as big as the entire Australian Defence Force. No one is going to give Tibet anything more than moral support.

I don't know what you guys have seen from Tibet, but we have been presented with some quite graphic imagery of violent action from both the protesters and the security forces in Lhasa.

 

[Xue Sheng]

China's armies have historically never fared well when challenged - the Japanese were the latest to prove that.

They are, however, huge and now they have nukes which I agree they would have little compunction about using as the leadership does not fear the damage retaliatory strikes would deliver.

China is very aware of its past military issues and will not let it happen again they have the largest standing military in the world and they are a lot more modern than they let on and incredibly well trained. Unlike western powers they do not do a whole lot of saber rattling and showing off how great their military is so you need to be real careful about distinguishing between what China says it has and what it has. You would be hard pressed to get a mainland Chinese person to admit they were wealthy they will generally tell you things could be better, the Government is no different.

And China likely does not want war with anyone, they have never gone anywhere and invaded anything outside of what they historically consider China (And I am not including the Mongol planed and failed invasions of Japan). However it does not like being pushed and from what I read and have read to me by my wife in general is incredibly clueless as to why anyone outside of a country would care what a country does within its own borders

As to China holding the reins of Korea; that just is not the case. China would back Korea up if it were to come to another country invading Korea but the rhetoric between the 2 is anything but cordial. Korea accuses China of being Capitalist and China thinks Korea is like they were during the Cultural Revolution and needs to improve.

 

[Kingindian]

i think nobody will help Tibet
because none of the countries want to get mess with China

 

[Sukerkin]

Most excellent insights into the Chinese cultural mindset, Xue.

Sometimes I find in discussions a viewpoint can become so fixed in your head that you need someone to punch it with a salient fact to shake it loose - cheers :rei:.

I was focussed on the increasing economic power of China and the, to our ears, belligerant refusal to accomodate global opinions and saw them on a collission course with either the West in general or America in particular. To be reminded that China has not chosen in modern times to seek to expand its already vast territories was an important point.

Of course, there is always the argument that just because they haven't doesn't mean they wont but the 'percentage' in such actions does seem low for them to bother.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Most excellent insights into the Chinese cultural mindset, Xue.

Sometimes I find in discussions a viewpoint can become so fixed in your head that you need someone to punch it with a salient fact to shake it loose - cheers :rei:.

I was focussed on the increasing economic power of China and the, to our ears, belligerant refusal to accomodate global opinions and saw them on a collission course with either the West in general or America in particular. To be reminded that China has not chosen in modern times to seek to expand its already vast territories was an important point.

Of course, there is always the argument that just because they haven't doesn't mean they wont but the 'percentage' in such actions does seem low for them to bother.

This is true, just because they haven't does not mean they won't. But for the moment under the current political climate in China it does not appear they will any time soon.

Things to consider with China are;

One no matter how much they deny it they are still fairly Confucian in there thinking and approach to many things.

Two Sun Tzu Bing Fa is a very important book to them they apply it regularly in just about everything. I can't tell you how many times my wife has quoted that thing and applies it to life, business, etc.

 

[Steel Tiger]

This is true, just because they haven't does not mean they won't. But for the moment under the current political climate in China it does not appear they will any time soon.

Things to consider with China are;

One no matter how much they deny it they are still fairly Confucian in there thinking and approach to many things.

Two Sun Tzu Bing Fa is a very important book to them they apply it regularly in just about everything. I can't tell you how many times my wife has quoted that thing and applies it to life, business, etc.

Two very good points. I think you also have to consider tradition. The People's Republic is just as traditional as any other regime China has seen. And traditionally China has seen itself as the centre with other states paying court and seeking its approval. I think that attitude is still quite prevalent in China. It is really an extension of the Confucian mindset.