This is my lineaje

[Manny]

Well maybe now I got two lineajes.

Grand Master: An Dae Sup (Korean).
Master: Ramon Alvite Gazca (Mexican).
Instructor: Jorge Alberto Morales Gallegos (Mexican).
Student: Manny.

In the late 60's GM An Dae Sup came Mexico to teach TKD to my profesor: Ramon Alvite Gazca (this is the Ji Do Kwan root). Ramon came to Veracruz my city and began teaching TKD to Jorge Morales, I began TKD in 1983 below Master Ramon Alvite and then Jorge Morales took me below his wing.

Now I'm under the Hwarang Tae Kwnod Do umbrella.

Grand Master: Dai Won Moon (aka David Moon).
Master:Ernesto Moran.
Master:Miguel Angel Carrillo Pineda.
Student: Manny.

GM Dai Won Moon is considered by many the father of the Mexican TKD he came in 1968 and make Mexico his residence, GM Moon teach Ernesto Moran (Moo Duk Kwan) and he teach Master Miguel Carillo who is my actual teacher.

Manny

 

[Miles]

So Manny, you started under a Jidokwan group but now are under a Moo Duk Kwan group?

Do both groups participate in the Mexican Olympic TKD trials?

Can you compare the training between the two groups-is one more self-defense oriented or sport oriented?

Thanks!

 

[terryl965]

So Manny, you started under a Jidokwan group but now are under a Moo Duk Kwan group?

Do both groups participate in the Mexican Olympic TKD trials?

Can you compare the training between the two groups-is one more self-defense oriented or sport oriented?

Thanks!

Those are great question, I wonder how come each group cannot be represented in the Olympics? Thats right not even spots yea right!!

 

[Manny]

So Manny, you started under a Jidokwan group but now are under a Moo Duk Kwan group?

Do both groups participate in the Mexican Olympic TKD trials?

Can you compare the training between the two groups-is one more self-defense oriented or sport oriented?

Thanks!

Yes, I alwasy be a Jido Kwaner, now my organization is Hwarang Tae Kwon Do the kwanjanim (also my sambonim) GM Miguel Angel Carillo comes from Moo Duk Kwan.

We have to realize that in Mexico the two leading organizations was Moo Duk Kwan and Ji Do Kwan and from these all the others organizations nowdays come from.

Not only JDK or MDK particpates on the Mexican olimpic trials these days.

I can tell you back in the 80's JDK has a select group of competitors and we practiced SD in a regular basis, today as long as I see in my city, JDK, MDK and almost every TKD Dojang concentratates more on kicking and competition than anything else.

As long as I know there is no Clasic TKD dojang in my city all the dojangs are WTF/KKW oriented dojangs.

We dont have ITF dojangs in my city or state.

Manny

 

[RobBnTX]

When I started checking out various TKD schools in my area (North Dallas) in early summer, a couple of the schools I visited proudly promoted their Jidokwan heritage and one dojang had a MDK flag on their wall along with a Korean master who has high ranking in the MKD but at the end of the day they are all Kukki TKD and to my brief observations were practically indistinguishable in how and what they practice and teach.

Master Lee at my dojang came out of the Chang Moo Kwan but he is relunctant to talk about it much. When I asked him when testing for dan ranking if a student could be certified through both the Kukkiwon and the Chang Moo Kwan, he admitted that although it is possible he discouraged the idea and mumbled something about how TKD should all be untied through the WTF. I dropped the subject and did not pursue it any further although I would like someday to inquire about his early TKD training in the CMK. Maybe when he gets to know me better and is more comfortable talking about it. He pretty well does non-stop teaching in his dojang so it is hard to pin him down for anything other then a brief conversation.

One difference in Master Lee's dojang is that Master Lee teaches the Palgwes in addtion to the TaeGeuks while most of the other dojangs I visited just teach the TaeGeuks.

Robert

 

[rmclain]

Hi Robert,

I'm glad you found a home dojang to study and practice TKD in. This is the most important thing - find a place where you anjoy the training and the people.

As a historical note, it is unlikely that Master Lee is actually from Changmoo-kwan lineage except by name only. He has been in TKD for 25 years (~1984) (by the bio on the web site). This is long after Changmoo-kwan really dissolved and became an honorary or name-only relationship. Anyone from that lineage still around conformed to the WTF line. Maybe he took some lessons from a student of Kim Soon-Bae? But, unless he knows/knew form such as Dan Kwon, Doju San, Jang Kwon, Taijo-kwon, Palgi-kwon, etc., he's just using the name of Changmoo-kwan. Most still claiming kwan relationship are in this situation these days.

This doesn't really matter much for your TKD training. Just an FYI for your study.

R. McLain

When I started checking out various TKD schools in my area (North Dallas) in early summer, a couple of the schools I visited proudly promoted their Jidokwan heritage and one dojang had a MDK flag on their wall along with a Korean master who has high ranking in the MKD but at the end of the day they are all Kukki TKD and to my brief observations were practically indistinguishable in how and what they practice and teach.

Master Lee at my dojang came out of the Chang Moo Kwan but he is relunctant to talk about it much. When I asked him when testing for dan ranking if a student could be certified through both the Kukkiwon and the Chang Moo Kwan, he admitted that although it is possible he discouraged the idea and mumbled something about how TKD should all be untied through the WTF. I dropped the subject and did not pursue it any further although I would like someday to inquire about his early TKD training in the CMK. Maybe when he gets to know me better and is more comfortable talking about it. He pretty well does non-stop teaching in his dojang so it is hard to pin him down for anything other then a brief conversation.

One difference in Master Lee's dojang is that Master Lee teaches the Palgwes in addtion to the TaeGeuks while most of the other dojangs I visited just teach the TaeGeuks.

Robert

 

[terryl965]

Actually Robert her name is Robin and although Master Lee has not been training long enough to really be CMK he Father did, so maybe that is how he is in the mix. In this day and age it is either ITF or WTF or KKW, the kwans days are over for the most part.

Hi Robert,

I'm glad you found a home dojang to study and practice TKD in. This is the most important thing - find a place where you anjoy the training and the people.

As a historical note, it is unlikely that Master Lee is actually from Changmoo-kwan lineage except by name only. He has been in TKD for 25 years (~1984) (by the bio on the web site). This is long after Changmoo-kwan really dissolved and became an honorary or name-only relationship. Anyone from that lineage still around conformed to the WTF line. Maybe he took some lessons from a student of Kim Soon-Bae? But, unless he knows/knew form such as Dan Kwon, Doju San, Jang Kwon, Taijo-kwon, Palgi-kwon, etc., he's just using the name of Changmoo-kwan. Most still claiming kwan relationship are in this situation these days.

This doesn't really matter much for your TKD training. Just an FYI for your study.

R. McLain

 

[rmclain]

Actually Robert her name is Robin and although Master Lee has not been training long enough to really be CMK he Father did, so maybe that is how he is in the mix. In this day and age it is either ITF or WTF or KKW, the kwans days are over for the most part.

Oops! Sorry. I looked at the profile here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/member.php?u=19930
and it listed the "real Name" as "Robert Brown." So it is really, Robin?"

I didn't catch Master Lee's father's name. Do you know it?

R. McLain

 

[RobBnTX]

My name is Robert Brown. See this thread: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77629

My user name is RobBnTX as in Rob B. in Texas. I have have had a lot nicknames in my lifetime, everything from Robbie (my wife's favorite) to Bob to Rob and yes even Robin (seems to be a favorite nickname of Robert among the British). I will most likely answer to anything though if you are offering to buy the next round!

I have never heard Master Lee talk about his father.

There is a Master Jason Lee in Richardson at the Texas Taekwondo Center whose father is Master Sun Lee. Master Jason told me that his father's lineage was Jidokwan. Speaking of Robins, when I first moved to Plano in 2001 there was a listing in the telephone directory of a TKD school headed by a Robin Lee. I never knew who that was and it is no longer around to my knowledge.

My Master Lee's full name is Eun-Ig Lee. Yes you all are correct about the time line. When I first signed up with Master Lee he told me that he started his school in 2004 and that previously he taught at Yim's TKD in Dallas for several years before that. That is also mentioned on his bio. I know that Master Yim on his Website ( I think it is currently under construction) stated that he came out of the CMK, so I asked Master Lee if he also was CMK and he shook his head yes, maybe he misunderstood, I do not know but just as we are talking about lineage here so maybe that is how he also understood my question. He told me he started his TKD training in Korea as a young boy. That was when I asked if it is still possible to get CMK certification in addition to Kukkiwon certification, but he really discouraged any notion of it although he did say it was possible, but again he just sort of mumbled something about how all of TKD should now be united in the WTF so like I stated above, I just dropped the subject.

I do not know how accurate his bio may be on the number of years he has been practicing and teaching. Maybe that is the number of years he has been teaching (?). I know when I asked him if he grew up in Korea he nodded his head and said he began TKD in his youth. Although his English is very good you can tell it is not his native language so sometimes I have a hard time really understanding everything he is saying and so it is very possible that he may have misinterpreted some of my questions to him. It really does not matter much to me either way, he has some really fantastic techniques and man can he kick hard!

I know now days it is either ITF, ATA, WTF, etc.... and that the days of the kwans for all practical purposes are over, that was the point of my post, that if they claim Jidokwan, MKD or whatever but are Kukki TKD, then to my observations there is not really much difference in what they practice and teach!

Thanks,
Robert

 

[terryl965]

I do apologies to everyone I thought you was Robin from Lee's TKD sorry about that. Master McLain my apology to you as well sir.:asian:

 

[RobBnTX]

I do apologies to everyone I thought you was Robin from Lee's TKD sorry about that. Master McLain my apology to you as well sir.:asian:

Hey that's OK!

I have not yet met a Robin at Master Lee's. He has a lot of black belts that I have never met though. They have their own class schedule. There is an adult all level class on Sat. mornings that I have been too a few times but there are usually not too many students who make that one.

Robert

 

[Manny]

I know now days it is either ITF, ATA, WTF, etc.... and that the days of the kwans for all practical purposes are over, that was the point of my post, that if they claim Jidokwan, MKD or whatever but are Kukki TKD, then to my observations there is not really much difference in what they practice and teach!

Thanks,
Robert

Robert with all the respect thay you deserve, I don't think the days of the kwans are over, at least in Mexico where I live were the main dojangs were MDK and JDK. In my country some of the dojans not wearing the name MDK or JDK is because of the rupture amoung their sambonims with his/hers organizacion be MDK or JDK. For example the organizacion I am under these days is Hwarang Tae Kwon Do, his Kwanjangnim was from MDK organiuzacion for almost 23 years, in the other hand Academia Nacional de Tae Kwon DO his kwanjangnim was a direct pupil of JiDoKwan.

Almost all the dojangs in my country are KKW/WTF but every one (dojangs/organizacions) come from MDK or JDK lineaje and for some people this is important.

I will always be a Ji Do Kwaner, I feel this way, I was born (martially speaking) under this dojang. Almost every Tae Kwon Doing from my city comes from Master Ramon Alvite Gazca (Ji Do Kwan) or Master Rafael Ruelas (Moo Duk Kwan), Ramon comes from Grand Master An Dae Sup (JDK) and Rafael Ruelas comes from Grand Master Dai Won Moon.

Personally I don't like so much the WTF believe me, I like to be Ji Do Kwan, I'm too square maybe but I like the clasic TKD.

Manny