This is how WWII in the Pacific started

[Tez3]

It is never up to Americans to go to war or not

It was always up to American politicians

I'm not sure if you know how that reads, are you saying that Americans aren't responsible for anything and the politicians are in charge of everything? If so that makes America sound either like the old Soviet Union or something like Fascist Spain etc which I don't think you meant? Americans vote for the politicians so if there's blame (or credit) the voters have to take it not just the politicians.

 

[Master Dan]

Bilcihak and WC-Lun; could we not agree that our best defense would be to have a good strong economy? if we are so broke that congress is threatening to stop all federal payments including military paychecks and we have for the first time so many suicides that outnumber active duty deaths for what reason's, seems serious beyond spending more? I still don't agree with 450 bases world wide and shutting down bases here in the US?

Also one of you could dig this up for me but a few years ago inforamtion that the Chinese were developing technology or had it already that would eliminate or defeat both our surface and submarine deterent in the South China Sea? get back to me on that one but at the time it was scarry also yeh Russia our alley they have continued to build new nuclear launch subs?

 

[celtic_crippler]

I'm not sure if you know how that reads, are you saying that Americans aren't responsible for anything and the politicians are in charge of everything? If so that makes America sound either like the old Soviet Union or something like Fascist Spain etc which I don't think you meant? Americans vote for the politicians so if there's blame (or credit) the voters have to take it not just the politicians.

Sadly, we're closer to that reality than the world.. and even many Americans realize. We're a shadow of a former republic... and leaning more towards either a fascist nation or a socialist one... or maybe some hybrib of the two.

Americans vote, sure... but the popular vote really doesn't mean anything. The only votes that matter... that determine who wins elections, is the vote of the Electoral College. You don't hear much about them, do you? Who makes up the College? What is their agenda? Being that they are the ones who really determine elections you'd think the media would focus more on them... but they do not... at all. Many Americans do not even realize they exist or that their votes aren't the one's counted in elections. .... scary stuff.

FYI: Each state has a certain number of Electoral votes which is the sum total of the number of senators (2 for every state) plue the number of representatives (the number varies based on populations). That's why it's so important to "win swing states". It has to do with the Electoral College. That's why some states have more influence than others... We are NOT a democracy... every person's vote does not count. We are supposed to be a republic, where "representatives" of the people vote and make decisions. The concept is based on protecting the rights of the minority when considering the wants of the majority (that has nothing to do with race or gender by the way... the minority is strictly a numerical thing LOL.)

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Americans vote, sure... but the popular vote really doesn't mean anything. The only votes that matter... that determine who wins elections, is the vote of the Electoral College. You don't hear much about them, do you? Who makes up the College? What is their agenda? Being that they are the ones who really determine elections you'd think the media would focus more on them... but they do not... at all. Many Americans do not even realize they exist or that their votes aren't the one's counted in elections. .... scary stuff.


FYI: Each state has a certain number of Electoral votes which is the sum total of the number of senators (2 for every state) plue the number of representatives (the number varies based on populations). That's why it's so important to "win swing states". It has to do with the Electoral College. That's why some states have more influence than others... We are NOT a democracy... every person's vote does not count. We are supposed to be a republic, where "representatives" of the people vote and make decisions. The concept is based on protecting the rights of the minority when considering the wants of the majority (that has nothing to do with race or gender by the way... the minority is strictly a numerical thing LOL.)

I do not understand your points. We're a Republic by design. Popular vote counts in every election except for President, by design. And it's quite easy to find out who an elector is, and how they get that way.

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1633-27662--,00.html

The Electoral College is comprised of 538 people, known as electors, chosen nationwide to meet in their home states and cast one vote per person for president and vice president. Michigan has 16 electors to reflect the number of senators and representatives it has in the U.S. Congress. Presidential candidates on the Michigan ballot submit a list of 16 qualified electors to the Secretary of State's Office. The 16 electors whose candidate wins Michigan's popular vote will participate in the Electoral College at the State Capitol in December.

Electors pledge to support the candidate they represent and may not vote otherwise. Michigan voters can be assured that all 16 Michigan electoral votes automatically go to the presidential candidate winning the popular vote.

Most states distribute their Electoral College votes in the same "winner takes all" fashion as Michigan. However two states, Maine and Nebraska, apportion their electoral votes by congressional district.

What does that mean? It means Michigan is treated like a sovereign nation when it comes to voting. They get 16 votes out of 538. All 16 vote for the candidate that wins the popular vote in Michigan. So each vote cast in Michigan counts. It just means that Michiganders vote for whomever they like in the state, and the state votes for the President as one voice. That's how a 'union of states' works.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I do not understand your points. We're a Republic by design. Popular vote counts in every election except for President, by design. And it's quite easy to find out who an elector is, and how they get that way.

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1633-27662--,00.html



What does that mean? It means Michigan is treated like a sovereign nation when it comes to voting. They get 16 votes out of 538. All 16 vote for the candidate that wins the popular vote in Michigan. So each vote cast in Michigan counts. It just means that Michiganders vote for whomever they like in the state, and the state votes for the President as one voice. That's how a 'union of states' works.

It varies per state... yadda yadda... I just posted a separate thread on the matter. Go there.

 

[rickster]

I'm not sure if you know how that reads, are you saying that Americans aren't responsible for anything and the politicians are in charge of everything? If so that makes America sound either like the old Soviet Union or something like Fascist Spain etc which I don't think you meant? Americans vote for the politicians so if there's blame (or credit) the voters have to take it not just the politicians.

Yes, Amercians vote for politicians, but are they the blame when a politician changes tactics and becomes pro-war

 

[Tez3]

Yes, Amercians vote for politicians, but are they the blame when a politician changes tactics and becomes pro-war

Pro war? It depends on the circumstances, you can have politicians and indeed the whole nation pro peace but if there's a threat to your country they must become 'pro war' if they are to defend themselves. It's all down to circumstances, saying 'pro war' doesn't mean anything.

 

[rickster]

Pro war? It depends on the circumstances, you can have politicians and indeed the whole nation pro peace but if there's a threat to your country they must become 'pro war' if they are to defend themselves. It's all down to circumstances, saying 'pro war' doesn't mean anything.

Sure it does, when was the last time there was a threat to the country in order to start war?

 

[Tez3]

Sure it does, when was the last time there was a threat to the country in order to start war?

You've missed my point. I said it depends on circumstances. You can't have an anti war government if the country ( any country not just yours) is threatened, you don't roll over and let them walk over you. If you mean that a government is promoting wars as part of it's agenda then say so.