Things that are ridiculous in Martial Arts

[Bruce7]

You know what's ridiculous? Getting all worked up about rank in a system that's not yours, and comparing it to WT rank. Which doesn't even exist.
Yeah. That's ridiculous.

You know what's ridiculous? Getting all worked up about rank in a system that's not yours, and comparing it to WT rank. Which doesn't even exist.
Yeah. That's ridiculous.

Good point, The WTF became WT in June 2017, thank you for the correction.
Did the standards change when they change their name?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Good point, The WTF became WT in June 2017, thank you for the correction.
Did the standards change when they change their name?

No, the standards remained exactly the same. Non-existent. Because the WT doesn't have rank.

 

[Bruce7]

No, the standards remained exactly the same. Non-existent. Because the WT doesn't have rank.

Kukkiwon is the World Taekwondo Headquarters founded in 1972 in Seoul, South Korea.
It is the only taekwondo organization whose dan ranks are recognized by World Taekwondo Federation (WTF), sorry WT.
Thank you for your help, I was being lazy.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Kukkiwon is the World Taekwondo Headquarters founded in 1972 in Seoul, South Korea.

That what they call themselves. It's grandiose, but not exactly accurate since it gives the incorrect implication that there's only one world headquarters for taekwondo. In point of fact, there's one for every system.

It is the only taekwondo organization whose dan ranks are recognized by World Taekwondo Federation (WTF), sorry WT.
Thank you for your help, I was being lazy.

I do not believe this is true. As I recall, a few years ago an agreement was reached to recognize ITF rank as well.
And, in any case, since it's pretty well known that the Kukkiwon will issue equivalent rank to people from other systems, it's a pretty pointless distinction even if true.

18 year old KKW 4th Dans are specifically allowed, although I don't now how many there are. And given that the KKW promotion requirements allow time-in-grade requirements to be ignored under certain circumstances, an 18 year old KKW 5th Dan is also entirely possible.

The same thing you're getting all knotted about. From the group you're holding up as an example of how it should be.

Yeah. That's ridiculous.

 

[Buka]

Yup. The amount of times someones overheard me talk about MA, then mention how their cousin or friend or nephew is a 3rd degree bb at 16, and ask me my rank, i know whats going through their heads when i tell them. And explaining that belts dont mean the same things is pointless, since it would just make me sound like im making excuses for being a 1st dan

If I find myself in this situation, I always softly smile and in a sweet voice tell them all about there cousin etc which usually has them interrupting and asking wide eyed “How did you know that?!?”
Sometimes I bewilder them more and sometimes speak even softer and almost make them cry.

Yes, I am incorrigible. Yes, I am an Ahole. And, yes, it’s getting worse.

What can I say? It’s a gift.

 

[drop bear]

Any given rank only means what it means within a given group. You seem to have a problem with this specific group, but why does it matter to you?

Bjj and Judo are pretty much universal.

 

[Bruce7]

That what they call themselves. It's grandiose, but not exactly accurate since it gives the incorrect implication that there's only one world headquarters for taekwondo. In point of fact, there's one for every system.



I do not believe this is true. As I recall, a few years ago an agreement was reached to recognize ITF rank as well.
And, in any case, since it's pretty well known that the Kukkiwon will issue equivalent rank to people from other systems, it's a pretty pointless distinction even if true.

18 year old KKW 4th Dans are specifically allowed, although I don't now how many there are. And given that the KKW promotion requirements allow time-in-grade requirements to be ignored under certain circumstances, an 18 year old KKW 5th Dan is also entirely possible.

The same thing you're getting all knotted about. From the group you're holding up as an example of how it should be.

Yeah. That's ridiculous.

Thank you for the information.
I believe you are correct, from what I have read the Kukkiwon does give black belts to other korean organizations, like the ITF
IMO, I don't think that they would give a black belt to an organization that requires a Black Belt to only learn one form.

 

[isshinryuronin]

the whole black belt thing is ridiculous,i, your going to tie black belt to actual ability, then they should be fought for and people should have them removed if their ability drops through age or lack of commitment. when you have geriatrics walking about with high grades then a fit 18 yo doesn't seem that out of character

You have no idea of what a black belt from a proper sensei means.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thank you for the information.
I believe you are correct, from what I have read the Kukkiwon does give black belts to other korean organizations, like the ITF
IMO, I don't think that they would give a black belt to an organization that requires a Black Belt to only learn one form.

There has been more than one KKW Grandmaster on this forum who have said that, basically, they would sign off on an equivalent Dan rank for anyone with a Dan ranking in any other style of TKD.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Bjj and Judo are pretty much universal.

With Judo, there's mostly just the one organization. BJJ so far is an outlier. They've managed to keep standards pretty consistent (so far as I've seen, anyway) even though there's not just a single organizational body.

 

[Bruce7]

There has been more than one KKW Grandmaster on this forum who have said that, basically, they would sign off on an equivalent Dan rank for anyone with a Dan ranking in any other style of TKD.

Thank you for the information.
A KKW Grandmaster puts an end to the question.
I am sorry, I misinterpreted the regulations from the Kukkiwon website.
Are there other things you think are ridiculous in MA?

 

[wab25]

Interesting post. So you find me ridiculous, ok, you might be right.

First off, I never said that I find you ridiculous. I found one thing you expressed to be ridiculous. I express things that are ridiculous all the time... see any of my posts. (there are a few members here who would gladly point you to some of my ridiculous posts) While I find that one thing you said ridiculous, I have found many other things that I either agree with or learn from in your other posts.

What are the other things you find ridiculous in MA?

1. Useless name dropping. I took a seminar once with a guy who was pretty good at his art. However, every time he went to a new technique or to make a new point about the one we were working on, he kept talking about how Bruce would do it, and what Bruce thought of things and how Bruce was when not in public, and generally made a point of chatting up how this Bruce guy was his good buddy. I went home and looked up this guy's training history... he never trained with Bruce, never lived anywhere near Bruce and would have been 7 or 8 years old when Bruce died. Sad part was that this guy's ability in his art and to teach... really didn't need the name dropping.

I just trained last night with a guy who dropped by the dojo on an open mat night. Since most of the senior instructor's were out, he wanted to teach a formal class and did so. After showing a technique, he started explaining how you really need to develop a certain flexibility... because when you train with Sensei X (very high ranked sensei in their art) you are required to have and use that flexibility all the time. Sensei X expects that and will tear you up if you don't have it. Except that I know for a fact, that the people on the mat, having trouble with his particular version of the technique he was teaching... could all do the version of that technique that they were taught... and that each one of them had more time training with Sensei X than the visiting sensei. This was again sad because, everyone just tuned him out... but his variation had some good things to it and was very useful.

2. Holding on to old myths. I still run into a disappointing number of instructors, who are great at their art and great instructors... but then throw out things like "punching the cartilage in the nose through the brain to kill." Or they talk about having "their hands registered as deadly weapons."

3. Assuming your rank gives authority. Now that I am a black belt I need to: assist the police, stop the bad guy, look for the bad guy, help people with their spirituality, be the moral and ethical compass of the community, have people visibly show their "respect" even outside the dojo... Your training gives you the same authority as a ballet dancer, swing dancer, weight lifter, jogger, guitar player... or couch potato. Just because you train punching and wrap a certain color thing around your waist, doesn't make you any more authority outside your school, than any other member of the community.

 

[jobo]

You have no idea of what a black belt from a proper sensei means.

well tell me, it's clear that some black bel awards are to very very capable individual, just as its equal clear that a good number are not, that then reenfforcrs my point that the system is flawed and the I'm a black belt statement is meaningless with out context of what dojo you trained at.

we are located near the university and as a result get a fair number of students who have earned there higher level. belts elsewhere and come to train with us whilst they are away from home. some of these are talented and worthy of there belt others, the majority are border line useless and would only be an orange belt at best at out school. inc it sinks in they are being out performed by yellow belts, they tend to not come back and presumably find somewhere else where they are not being humbled by " beginners" so they can keep their delusion of being skilled ma.

we had one guy, who had both a level of superiority and contempt he was being asked to drill with low belts, I threw an slow gentle lazy punch at him as part of a one step drill and he batted it away with great force and contempt at my weedy effort," like that is it I though, ", the next punch smash though his block and hit him in the shoulder, and he retired hurt went home never to return

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thank you for the information.
A KKW Grandmaster puts an end to the question.
I am sorry, I misinterpreted the regulations from the Kukkiwon website.

Difference between theory and reality.

Are there other things you think are ridiculous in MA?

I'm more inclined to think people are ridiculous than generalities.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm more inclined to think people are ridiculous than generalities.

Well that was ridiculous

Agreed by the way

 

[Bruce7]

As I and maybe others were confused by what you were trying to say, I found this article helpful.
Understanding Kukkiwon, WTF and ITF :: Taekwondo

 

[Dirty Dog]

As I and maybe others were confused by what you were trying to say, I found this article helpful.
Understanding Kukkiwon, WTF and ITF :: Taekwondo

Yes. That says what I said, but in a lot more words.

 

[Bruce7]

First off, I never said that I find you ridiculous. I found one thing you expressed to be ridiculous. I express things that are ridiculous all the time... see any of my posts. (there are a few members here who would gladly point you to some of my ridiculous posts) While I find that one thing you said ridiculous, I have found many other things that I either agree with or learn from in your other posts.



1. Useless name dropping. I took a seminar once with a guy who was pretty good at his art. However, every time he went to a new technique or to make a new point about the one we were working on, he kept talking about how Bruce would do it, and what Bruce thought of things and how Bruce was when not in public, and generally made a point of chatting up how this Bruce guy was his good buddy. I went home and looked up this guy's training history... he never trained with Bruce, never lived anywhere near Bruce and would have been 7 or 8 years old when Bruce died. Sad part was that this guy's ability in his art and to teach... really didn't need the name dropping.

I just trained last night with a guy who dropped by the dojo on an open mat night. Since most of the senior instructor's were out, he wanted to teach a formal class and did so. After showing a technique, he started explaining how you really need to develop a certain flexibility... because when you train with Sensei X (very high ranked sensei in their art) you are required to have and use that flexibility all the time. Sensei X expects that and will tear you up if you don't have it. Except that I know for a fact, that the people on the mat, having trouble with his particular version of the technique he was teaching... could all do the version of that technique that they were taught... and that each one of them had more time training with Sensei X than the visiting sensei. This was again sad because, everyone just tuned him out... but his variation had some good things to it and was very useful.

2. Holding on to old myths. I still run into a disappointing number of instructors, who are great at their art and great instructors... but then throw out things like "punching the cartilage in the nose through the brain to kill." Or they talk about having "their hands registered as deadly weapons."

3. Assuming your rank gives authority. Now that I am a black belt I need to: assist the police, stop the bad guy, look for the bad guy, help people with their spirituality, be the moral and ethical compass of the community, have people visibly show their "respect" even outside the dojo... Your training gives you the same authority as a ballet dancer, swing dancer, weight lifter, jogger, guitar player... or couch potato. Just because you train punching and wrap a certain color thing around your waist, doesn't make you any more authority outside your school, than any other member of the community.

I agree, excellent post.

It is ridiculous that I am a terrible student.When I quit MA, I had study it for 12 years. Over 30 years later I have started training again. You would think I would be a good student, but I not. When I see something that I feel is counter product, I don't say anything, but you can see it in my face.

I now train by myself, videos are helpful to remembering forms. I don't have a gym to work out in and I miss helping fellow students if they are having trouble with a technique. I coached various sports off and on for 40 years so I have a very good understanding of body mechanic and training methods. Maybe when I find the right teacher I can empty my cup and become a good student.

 

[Buka]

2. Holding on to old myths. I still run into a disappointing number of instructors, who are great at their art and great instructors... but then throw out things like "punching the cartilage in the nose through the brain to kill." Or they talk about having "their hands registered as deadly weapons."

For real? People actually say that stuff?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I agree, excellent post.

It is ridiculous that I am a terrible student.When I quit MA, I had study it for 12 years. Over 30 years later I have started training again. You would think I would be a good student, but I not. When I see something that I feel is counter product, I don't say anything, but you can see it in my face.

I now train by myself, videos are helpful to remembering forms. I don't have a gym to work out in and I miss helping fellow students if they are having trouble with a technique. I coached various sports off and on for 40 years so I have a very good understanding of body mechanic and training methods. Maybe when I find the right teacher I can empty my cup and become a good student.

From your postas, i dont think youre going to find that right achool in any sort of traditional school, unless you do something way off base from your original experience (kali, silat or bjj type stuff).

What might work for you is to continue doing your forms and training on your own, but find a good kickboxing gym that will allow you to train there and spar against others, if you want. You womt have to worry about your techniques, you can do what you know works, and if you need to you can change and learn from them-if what you're doing works fine you dont need to change it at all and can just keep sparring.