There are now more prisoners in American prisons than in Stalin's Gulag Archipelago

[Tgace]

Marijuana is a very very small front in the Drug War...the feds up here don't even look at weed cases under 50lbs...the real drug war is about coke, heroin, meth, pills etc.

The redirect to weed when discussing the Drug War is ignorance of narctiocs enforcement at best or intentional obfuscation at worst.

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[arnisador]

I was stating a fact, not suggesting a policy. I'm in favor of decriminalization of marijuana.

And? How many chances should we give someone?

Eh...if it's legal, you don't have to give them any chances at all. I don't follow you.

 

[Tgace]

Eh...if it's legal, you don't have to give them any chances at all. I don't follow you.

But its not legal....

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[arnisador]

Marijuana is a very very small front in the Drug War...the feds up here don't even look at weed cases under 50lbs...the real drug war is about coke, heroin, meth, pills etc.

The redirect to weed when discussing the Drug War is ignorance of narctiocs enforcement at best or intentional obfuscation at worst.

No, it's in fact making the same distinction you just indicated--that weed is different.

 

[arnisador]

But its not legal....

Agreed, yeah. I'm still not following.

 

[Tgace]

No, it's in fact making the same distinction you just indicated--that weed is different.

But incarceration and "The Drug War" has yet again been twisted to weed here. Legalization of pot wont do **** in regards to the Drug War....

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[Tgace]

Agreed, yeah. I'm still not following.

Maybe you should re-read the posts then. I get what hes saying.

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[Makalakumu]

But incarceration and "The Drug War" has yet again been twisted to weed here. Legalization of pot wont do **** in regards to the Drug War....

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Not neccesarily. Legal weed will be very different from illegal weed. Legal weed will allow the industry to grow around it complete with the infrastructure to deal with chemical abuse. This will provide yet another example of how the free market can handle drug issues.

Government regulation, including criinalization, only hinders the free market. It makes drug problems worse and adds a whole new spectrum of problems on top of the problem of chemical abuse.

 

[Argus]

Japan has 63 per 100,000, Germany has 90, France has 96, South Korea has 97, and *Britain - with a rate among the *highest - has 153....
This wide gap between the U.S. and the rest of the world is relatively recent. In 1980 the U.S.’s prison population was about 150 per 100,000 adults. It has more than quadrupled since then. So something has happened in the past 30 years to push millions of Americans into prison.
That something, of course, is the war on drugs.

You might want to consider that Japan, with the lowest rate, also has a zero tolerance policy on drugs.

But then, drugs are not a common or accepted thing culturally there, and people are much more used to the idea of taking responsibility for their actions.

 

[ballen0351]

Not neccesarily. Legal weed will be very different from illegal weed. Legal weed will allow the industry to grow around it complete with the infrastructure to deal with chemical abuse. This will provide yet another example of how the free market can handle drug issues.

Government regulation, including criinalization, only hinders the free market. It makes drug problems worse and adds a whole new spectrum of problems on top of the problem of chemical abuse.

Only problem I see with your plan is the people that are hooked and need help cant afford it (you know because of the whole drug addiction thing) So it will still fall to the tax payer to foot the bill.

 

[arnisador]

Maybe you should re-read the posts then. I get what hes saying.

Thanks, that was helpful.

 

[oftheherd1]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/ojppr112912.pdf

I only did a quick search, but came of with this set of statistics up to 2011 from the USDOJ. First, the amount has been declining, and is now about 2.9% of the population. The 6.98 million are those under correction supervision. That includes probation and parole. Only about 2,239,800 were actually incarcerated.

It can't have gone up significantly in one year. I don't know where the individual quoted by Makalakuma got his figures, but they don't agree with DOJ, and in fact, are radically different. It causes me to doubt all he says.

 

[Makalakumu]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/2012/ojppr112912.pdf

I only did a quick search, but came of with this set of statistics up to 2011 from the USDOJ. First, the amount has been declining, and is now about 2.9% of the population. The 6.98 million are those under correction supervision. That includes probation and parole. Only about 2,239,800 were actually incarcerated.

It can't have gone up significantly in one year. I don't know where the individual quoted by Makalakuma got his figures, but they don't agree with DOJ, and in fact, are radically different. It causes me to doubt all he says.

It is from TIME magazine, but I guess that doesn't mean the numbers are correct. I suppose it will all be determined by who you count...on both sides.

 

[Makalakumu]

Only problem I see with your plan is the people that are hooked and need help cant afford it (you know because of the whole drug addiction thing) So it will still fall to the tax payer to foot the bill.

The people who are hooked now don't really get any help now...and the taxpayers pay far more to imprison them. The worst case scenario is what we have now.

 

[ballen0351]

The people who are hooked now don't really get any help now...and the taxpayers pay far more to imprison them. The worst case scenario is what we have now.

Sure they do When I arrest someone on drug charges if they are just a user with a record free from violent crimes they go to a drug diversion program. What they choose to do with that help is on them. Without the drug arrest part we get no court ordered treatment. So the worst case scenario is no way to even get someone help since we have no court system to order the help to begin with.

 

[K-man]

There has been a study released here, that has been discussed on radio over the past few days, showing that the rate of criminals reoffending is significantly greater if they have served time in prison. Criminals given suspended sentences, fines or Community Orders are much less likely to reoffend. Watch ts space! :asian:

 

[K-man]

The people who are hooked now don't really get any help now...and the taxpayers pay far more to imprison them. The worst case scenario is what we have now.

You haven't seen the worst. Legalise pot and your worst nightmare will become reality. :asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

Sure they do When I arrest someone on drug charges if they are just a user with a record free from violent crimes they go to a drug diversion program. What they choose to do with that help is on them. Without the drug arrest part we get no court ordered treatment. So the worst case scenario is no way to even get someone help since we have no court system to order the help to begin with.

There will always be ways to get help because that is what people need. The government makes it harder for people to get help because users get thrown in prison or they are forced to use underground. If drugs were legalized, the situation would only improve.

 

[ballen0351]

There will always be ways to get help because that is what people need. The government makes it harder for people to get help because users get thrown in prison or they are forced to use underground. If drugs were legalized, the situation would only improve.

So how many users are in prison?

And in this world of legal drugs who pays for treatment?

 

[ballen0351]

There has been a study released here, that has been discussed on radio over the past few days, showing that the rate of criminals reoffending is significantly greater if they have served time in prison. Criminals given suspended sentences, fines or Community Orders are much less likely to reoffend. Watch ts space! :asian:

Doesn't surprise me since by the time anyone goes to prison they usually have already been arrested many times. Unless someone dies is seriously hurt or you stole something extreamy valuable your not going to prison on a first offense or second or third normally