The wonders of ancient medicine

[RRouuselot]

Over the weekend I decided that I had enough aches and ills that would constitute a trip to see my favorite acupuncturist up in Tokyo.

I had a raging lung infection that I had picked up after my return from Okinawa about 3 weeks ago and it didn’t seem to be responding western drugs (inhaler stuff) that I was given on base. The lungs coupled with a jaw and shoulder injury from sparring, as well as a knee that had blown up to the size of a grapefruit and the general malaise of it all made it a good time to go.

First off I was given a general look over by the Doc and he didn’t like what he saw. I was given about 45 minutes of Shiatsu which can either feel pretty good or hurt like a mother…..that day it hurt. The Shiatsuist pushed down hard on my right forearm and asked me to bend my leg…..the pressure he put on my arm felt like a dump truck had just stopped for lunch on it. It HURT. Then I was “cupped” on my back. This is where they use a special kind of suction cup on your back….it feels kind of funky and leaves massive black marks on your back. Then it was acupuncture time…..I got about 10 needles in my back which hurt like hell. He twirls them back and forth to get stimulation and it makes you jump sometimes. I think he does it just to watch people squirm. Then I got 2 in the chest and 2 in the head. The ones in the head hurt the worst….almost like a migraine. The best 2 and half hours I have spent in a while.

That was yesterday…..today my lungs feel pretty clear, my jaw and shoulder are 100 % and my knee actual bends and I can walk now and has about 20% left to go before it is back to normal.

The reason I mention all this is because if I were to go to a western Dr for each symptom ( I did by the way) they would want to send me to an oral surgeon for my jaw, do an exploratory on my shoulder, drain the water out of my knee, and bombard me with drugs for the lung infection.

I figure I just saved myself several thousand dollars and several months of pain.

 

[arnisador]

You should open a low-cost HMO staffed like this and make some money!

Specialization is a two-edged sword. It's led to some great advances, but also causes professional myopia. Something like 70% of all complaints brought to a family physician are things that will go away on their own, if memory serves.

 

[VSanhodo]

Hi Robert

Having been a student of the Martial sciences for just over 35 years now, I too agree We in a western society tend to dismiss Eastern medicine. Kinda of funny when you think about it. Eastern Medicine while great (My wife is a Nurse and former Trauma and life flight nurse) should leave room for more options. My wife would be the first to admit way toooooooo many doctors today would rather treat you with a pill then to take the time to find the underlying problem.
Thanks for sharing your expierence.
Take care
San

 

[MichiganTKD]

Western medicine's idea of treatment is to give you painkillers. If it doesn't hurt, you must be okay. Not that I agree with everything Oriental medicine does, but it has been doing things for thousands of years that Western science is just now beginning to understand. Think about it. Western medicine as we know it is only about 150 years old. Galen was considered a master physician. Today he would be considered a quack. Because of Galen's influence, and others like him, Western medicine pretty much was in the Dark Ages until recently. For many things, I would pretty much rather see an Oriental doctor than a Western physician. Western doctors tend to say "We'll try this and hopefully it will work".

 

[RRouuselot]

Western medicine's idea of treatment is to give you painkillers. If it doesn't hurt, you must be okay. Not that I agree with everything Oriental medicine does, but it has been doing things for thousands of years that Western science is just now beginning to understand. Think about it. Western medicine as we know it is only about 150 years old. Galen was considered a master physician. Today he would be considered a quack. Because of Galen's influence, and others like him, Western medicine pretty much was in the Dark Ages until recently. For many things, I would pretty much rather see an Oriental doctor than a Western physician. Western doctors tend to say "We'll try this and hopefully it will work".

For preventive medicine I will often choose TCM, but for emergency medicine I wll stick with western medicine every time.
I think each have their own strenghts and weak points.
One major problem is in the west finding someone that is qualified in TCM can be a problem. Just as there are many bogus "kyusho Experts", self appointed "Sokes" and so on there are also a lot of TCM quacks.....

 

[Makalakumu]

For preventive medicine I will often choose TCM, but for emergency medicine I wll stick with western medicine every time.
I think each have their own strenghts and weak points.
One major problem is in the west finding someone that is qualified in TCM can be a problem. Just as there are many bogus "kyusho Experts", self appointed "Sokes" and so on there are also a lot of TCM quacks.....

Robert, your profile says that you are a licensed TCM practicioner. I am currently looking for someone to care for a family member. What would you recommend that I look for so I can tell the real deal from the quacks?

 

[RRouuselot]

Robert, your profile says that you are a licensed TCM practicioner. I am currently looking for someone to care for a family member. What would you recommend that I look for so I can tell the real deal from the quacks?

Yes I am. I know of several schools in China as well as Japan that a quit good, however, I am not familiar with American schools. Also, each state in the US has it’s own laws regarding TCM and who can practice and under what conditions. I am afraid this adds to the confusion as to who is qualified and who is not.

Definitely look into where they trained, do an internet search on their school to see if there might be info on the school etc. I would also check with state health officials and see what the laws are regarding practicing TCM where you live. I am sure you don’t want someone sticking needles in you that is not legit. Also, and this is a biggy, inquire as to how they sterilize their needles….

 

[shesulsa]

Allopathy is what western medicine is called. The approach is towards the symptoms rather than the cause, for the most part, and the use of prescription medication as opposed to natural alternatives. Even the simple science of nutrition is LOST on western doctors. For example most children with a certain type of epliepsy can be cured - CURED - by being placed on the ketogenic diet for a year or two, after which (if they show no further sign of seizures), they can eat whatever they want, whenever they want and have a normal, healthy lifestyle. But this diet is considered a last resort by neurologists because food is not considered medicine. It is not considered a viable treatment for disease. Western doctors would rather try every prophylaxis in the book than tell a family to tightly restrict and contain what an epileptic child eats and even perform surgery to the extent of hemispherectomy BEFORE recommending a change in eating.

Interesting that, nonetheless, accupuncture is payed for as a viable treatment by some insurance companies as is chiropractic.

I agree that western medicine has a great approach to trauma and emergency, however, and if I were to have another baby, I'd still do so in a hospital. But we as a society need to re-examine our health care needs and stop popping pills left and right.

RRouuselot, I've seen several accupuncturists who have given me great results as well as one who did nothing but open and close on the meridian - relief for about 10 hours and nothing more. I agree that whomever a person sees, regardless of method or training, one must be wary of quick cures as well as non-cures.

 

[rmcrobertson]

While I hate to break up a love-fest, and I'd add that not too many people are more cynical about Western medicine than I am after ten years or so of hospital work), I did want to point out three things:

1. There is an enormous amount of quackery in "Eastern," medicine, as well as in chiropractic, and very few of their claims are actually verified by scientific study.

2. I got vaccinated against polio in 1957, early on. I was also vaccinated against smallpox, diptheria, typhoid, and a buncha other childhood diseases that Eastern medicine didn't do squat to so much as slow down.

3. It simply isn't accurate to say that Western medicine doesn't pay attention to diet and lifestyle. It also isn't accurate to claim that Western medicine treats symptoms rather than looking for underlying causes, though it is true that when it comes to things like ADD and blood pressure, the tendency is to medicate rather than really fix things--to look for the quick "fix," as many many people do in the martial arts.

One other thing--it's clear that those guys are on to something important that we're blowing off as a society. Or more accurately, the Eastern arts are getting translated as various quackeries--from, "therapeutic touch," to "Feng shui," this stuff gets transformed and commodified. Personally, I think it's absurd that insurances pay for chiropractic and acupuncture, in the absence of any scientific data on their usefulness. But then, I think it's absurd that we pay to keep 97-year-old Alzheimer's victims on ventilators.

 

[shesulsa]

1. There is an enormous amount of quackery in "Eastern," medicine, as well as in chiropractic, and very few of their claims are actually verified by scientific study.

I think that makes three of us who agree that there is quackery in eastern medicine as well. Just remember, please, that quackery abounds in all "healing arts" be they eastern, western, northern, southern or glaxian.

2. I got vaccinated against polio in 1957, early on. I was also vaccinated against smallpox, diptheria, typhoid, and a buncha other childhood diseases that Eastern medicine didn't do squat to so much as slow down.

Yes, vaccination has done an immense favor to the human race and I favor safe vaccination of the mass populus as we've discussed before.

3. It simply isn't accurate to say that Western medicine doesn't pay attention to diet and lifestyle. It also isn't accurate to claim that Western medicine treats symptoms rather than looking for underlying causes, though it is true that when it comes to things like ADD and blood pressure, the tendency is to medicate rather than really fix things--to look for the quick "fix," as many many people do in the martial arts.

Western medicine mostly does treat by symptom, sorry. Underlying cause is only really looked for if symptoms are not abated by repeated prophylaxis. While there are symptoms that undeniably point to a causation (e.g. chest pain, arythmia, shortness of breath, etc. could indicate myocardial infarction), outside of the ER, in general practice, a headache is treated with drugs first. If it doesn't go away, different drugs are given and this goes on until nothing works or they worsen to a debilitating degree and THEN tests are run. I think where we are differing on opinion is mostly indicated by our difference of POV - you may be thinking hospital and I'm thinking mostly general practice or family practice.

As to nutrition and lifestyle, doctors make recommendations when symptoms occur, but diets are rarely prescribed any longer and this is mostly restricted to food allergy or intolerance or demonstrated disease such as a low-sodium, low-fat diet is indicated by hypertenstion and other types of heart disease, a dairy-free diet is recommended to those lactose-intolerant, etcetera. But diet is not prescribed to CURE DISEASE as anything but a last resort by most western medical doctors. If I am in error, correct me please.

One other thing--it's clear that those guys are on to something important that we're blowing off as a society. Or more accurately, the Eastern arts are getting translated as various quackeries--from, "therapeutic touch," to "Feng shui," this stuff gets transformed and commodified. Personally, I think it's absurd that insurances pay for chiropractic and acupuncture, in the absence of any scientific data on their usefulness. But then, I think it's absurd that we pay to keep 97-year-old Alzheimer's victims on ventilators.

Hmmmm. There have been studies to prove and disprove the effectiveness of acupuncture and chiropractic, so I'm not sure why you'd say there were none. I was highly cynical of chiros until I found one who really worked, but he mainly does more applied kinesiology than anything which I'm sure will draw more claims of quackery, but ... all I know is the results of what I've received.

As to your comment on what insurance will and will not pay for, I have to mildly or partially agree in that insurance pays for some interesting treatments for interesting diseases, said treatment is not universal nor always effective, yet won't pay for other treatments that are not universal nor always effective.

What to do? What to do?

 

[Andrew Green]

Western medicine... well, it works and it can be proven. But it is a treat the symptoms deal.

Take 2 pills every day might not be needed if there was a run for 20 mins everyday.

Massage will loosen muscles, which relieves stiffness and pain. A pill will supress the pain but not fix the problem.

I'm not much for ancient treatments, but more ancient "staying healthy" which seems to have been forgotten.