Bodhisattva
Blue Belt
Why, Bob, you brought a (figurative) tear to my eye.
A man after my own heart.
A man after my own heart.
The Wisdom of Evil, Have We Learned Nothing?
- Thread starter Bob Hubbard
- Start date
Ah, I understand and concurr, Mr. Boderics. Thanks for elaborating and averting my misconception of what you meant.
I raise a glass in agreement, cheers
Mark
I raise a glass in agreement, cheers
Mark
JBrainard
Senior Master
This is frighteningly true when you compare it to how our government sold the Iraq war to the people. *shudder*
Empty Hands
Senior Master
:rofl:
Empty Hands
Senior Master
I strongly disagree. Any dictatorship, no matter how "benevolent" (which is mostly a fantasy), removes all accountability from itself and all self-determination from the ruled. That is both unwise from a practical point of view since true dictatorships are always unpleasant for the ruled, and wrong from an ethical point of view.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #26
The number of quotes of high ranking Nazi officials and several members of the us Congress and Executive branch that are -very- similar if not almost identical is frightening.
Of course, the Nazi's didn't think they were the bad guys either.
Of course not, they thought they were doing their countrymen and the world a favor by eliminating the Jews.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
Brainard,
The government didnt tell me i was being attacked, i saw it with my own eyes.
The government didnt tell me i was being attacked, i saw it with my own eyes.
Could you elaborate, TF?
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
munich
beirut
khobar towers
9-11
the war on terror has been underway since 1972, the west just wasnt fighting back till 2001
beirut
khobar towers
9-11
the war on terror has been underway since 1972, the west just wasnt fighting back till 2001
OP
- Thread Starter
- #31
Destroying something, does nothing to protect it.
Becoming that which you have always abhorred, does not save you from it.
Becoming that which you have always abhorred, does not save you from it.
Fiendlover
Black Belt
True. Brillant minds that grew corrupted.
I know what the intent of your words was, TF so don't take it as facetious when I say that there are certain countries and certain organisations who would disagree about our not fighting back. I can't speak for America's services but Britain's, Germany's, France's, Israel's et al have been in action for all of that time.
The action that holds the greatest irony, given the current tensions in the world, is when the SAS eliminated the terrorists that had seized the Iranian embassy in London.
______________________________
Personal Observation (as in not on-topic tho' inspired by topic but could really do with it's own thread):
The "War on Terror" is one of those nonsense sound-bites that make my teeth ache. The concept and the execution (as envisaged so far) is flawed to the extent that it makes you wonder who thought it was a good idea for doing anything but fostering the growth of more terrorism.
I suppose it's the 'packaging' of it for the media is really the thing that highlights the processes problems. In previous decades, the terrorists were dealt with and then the (sometimes very bad) news was reported. Now we have news as entertainment and so every story has to be milked and over-sold and constantly re-told.
It makes it hard not to think that the whole shadow-play is just yet another strand to government self-aggrandisement-propoganda i.e. an ineffective policy that is big and showy and screams "Look! We are doing something! ... {small voice}vote for us{/small voice}".
Of course none of this is aimed at those out there in the weeds making the bad guys go away as best they can. A show of force is sometimes a good thing but only if the enemy is of the sort to be intimidated by such a thing.
At present, it would seem that Afghanistan and Iraq will be training grounds and equipment test-beds for quite a while to come
.
How rambling was that!? ^ :blush:
Sorry chaps, that was a rush of fingers on the keyboard between bites of a sandwich during lunch. I did have a point but I think I dropped it.
In essence what I was trying to get at is that "Terrorism" has been with us for a long time, over here in Europe (Spain and Ireland being particular 'higlights'). The counter-terrorist organisations have been doing a pretty good job over that period, considering the handicap of not knowing when or where things are going to get unpleasant.
Keeping it relatively low-key (the SAS were not pleased at the prescence of TV camera's during the Embassy Siege) worked well. Exaggerating it into a "War On Terror!" as an adjunct to stealing other peoples countries is counter-productive in terms of efficiency.
As an excercise in misdirection for social control at home tho' it is pretty good. Another handy lesson brought forward through the decades from the playbook of the erstwhile Bad Guys.
Hmmm - still no closer to really contributing to the thread here - I'm going to go and do the some gardening and see if that helps.
Sorry chaps, that was a rush of fingers on the keyboard between bites of a sandwich during lunch. I did have a point but I think I dropped it
.In essence what I was trying to get at is that "Terrorism" has been with us for a long time, over here in Europe (Spain and Ireland being particular 'higlights'). The counter-terrorist organisations have been doing a pretty good job over that period, considering the handicap of not knowing when or where things are going to get unpleasant.
Keeping it relatively low-key (the SAS were not pleased at the prescence of TV camera's during the Embassy Siege) worked well. Exaggerating it into a "War On Terror!" as an adjunct to stealing other peoples countries is counter-productive in terms of efficiency.
As an excercise in misdirection for social control at home tho' it is pretty good. Another handy lesson brought forward through the decades from the playbook of the erstwhile Bad Guys.
Hmmm - still no closer to really contributing to the thread here - I'm going to go and do the some gardening and see if that helps
.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #35
Lets take 1 statement for a moment and play with it.
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." — Joseph Stalin
That's true. In the last 2 major US elections there have been cries of fraud and other problems, some of which have been verified. Concerns are such that some places are now removing those wonderful electronic vote counting machines and going back to other less efficient but reliable systems. Catch is, someone is still counting and there are always possible challenges.
We point at some countries elections where only 1 person is running as a sign of corruption, yet how many elections in the US only have 1 person on the ballot?
In 2004 over 30 people were running for president, yet only about 7 were on my ballot. Why is it so hard for smaller established parties to make it on the national ballots?
Stalin was a SOB, yet his statement is dead on, and especially of interest as we approach yet another guarenteed interesting US election.
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." — Joseph Stalin
That's true. In the last 2 major US elections there have been cries of fraud and other problems, some of which have been verified. Concerns are such that some places are now removing those wonderful electronic vote counting machines and going back to other less efficient but reliable systems. Catch is, someone is still counting and there are always possible challenges.
We point at some countries elections where only 1 person is running as a sign of corruption, yet how many elections in the US only have 1 person on the ballot?
In 2004 over 30 people were running for president, yet only about 7 were on my ballot. Why is it so hard for smaller established parties to make it on the national ballots?
Stalin was a SOB, yet his statement is dead on, and especially of interest as we approach yet another guarenteed interesting US election.
Archangel M
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,555
- Reaction score
- 154
We threw Americans of Japanese decent into prison camps in WWII. We did some "totalitarian" things during the Civil War as well. The Brits have some "history" here too. These "issues" are nothing new. They just get trotted out when theres some political differences to be battled over. The "other guy" is a Hitler in the making..blah...blah...blah.
JBrainard
Senior Master
You saw Iraq attack the US? Wow, I must have missed that one
To use your own words, you are talking about the war on terror, not the war on Iraq.
I don't disagree with you in principle, Archangel. I think we just see the current situation with different 'severity filters' applied.
Also, please don't think that I've just been talking about America in my posts here, nor that I have been brushing aside unpleasant things that have happened in the past.
I've talked before about the history the British Empire had when we decided to bring our version of Civilisation to the world. I haven't reiterated those points here because really, altho' I've been trying to avoid pointing fingers and using accusatory language, the clear parallels with the OP quotes are with how the past few years of the American Presidency have been shaped.
Also, please don't think that I've just been talking about America in my posts here, nor that I have been brushing aside unpleasant things that have happened in the past.
I've talked before about the history the British Empire had when we decided to bring our version of Civilisation to the world. I haven't reiterated those points here because really, altho' I've been trying to avoid pointing fingers and using accusatory language, the clear parallels with the OP quotes are with how the past few years of the American Presidency have been shaped.
Mr G
Orange Belt
History is written by the victors. Winston Churchill
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
You saw Iraq attack the US? Wow, I must have missed that one
actually Brainard, NO.
I have seen the Iraqi's attack the US.
They did it on a nearly daily basis for 10 YEARS
The UN resolution that ended the Gulf war? It included lots of conditions. One of which was that the US was going to enforce the "no fly" zones
Iraq Shot at those us planes nearly every day. Those acts ALONE made the invasion of 2003 legal.
Did you really not know this?
http://www.historyguy.com/no-fly_zone_war.html
not to mention the PROVEN support Saddam gave to AQ and Hammas
