The WC Tower of Babel

[Yoshiyahu]

Very interesting...alot of people do not realize that Karate originated from White Crane Gung Fu. Thats because of years and years of modification. But you are correct..major similarities between Karate and Wing Chun...Many don't believe me though...I may start a thread about that now that you brought it up...


Anyway since you are a teacher...did you know there is website called Teacher Tube...you may find it helpful...



Website:
http://teachertube.com/

For better or for worse, that won't happen. It runs contrary to the independent, individualistic nature of all the Chinese sifus I've met. And Americans are even more so! Besides, conformity can really limit an art. (I'm a high school art teacher by the way). I just watched an interesting video by Sensei Patrick McCarthy that discusses how the Japanese emphasis on conformity adversely affected the practical effectiveness of Okinawan Karate--www.martialartsview.com --episode S4:E4.

Interestingly, some of the really old photos of Okinawan Te shown in the video come straight from Fukien White Crane and look a whole lot like WT/WC. There's a very old photo of a small, skinny, bald-headed old guy who resembles GGM Yip Man. He's executing a WC/WT style mid-level front kick and simultaneously striking to the face (thumb in the eye, vertical palm along the jaw) just like the "piercing-hands" movement at the beginning of Chum Kiu. It's a perfect simultaneous defense and double counter-attack.

Anyway, if the later Japanese emphasis on uniformity and simplified militaristic drills reduced this art to what it later became, then I'd rather put up with the problem of too much individuality in WC/WT. It's definitely the lesser of two evils.

De todos modos, "Vale mas el modo viejo."

 

[Si-Je]

I'm starting to see your point more and more, and come over to this way of thinking. Being trained privately for the past 4 years I haven't been aware of alot of these issues until just recently. And It's been an ugly wakeup call to the politics that plague the art.
It's really a shame.

Well sometimes war is all thats needed...lol...Too many people are teaching Watered down WC. Others refuse to give out the real WC. So the need for merging WC is growing because some people WC is crap.

 

[Si-Je]

I do understand this too. So am still wondering, .. what to do? Do you teach the chinese terminology, or drop it altogether? It's a really great topic and something I never really thought about before.

For better or for worse, that won't happen. It runs contrary to the independent, individualistic nature of all the Chinese sifus I've met. And Americans are even more so! Besides, conformity can really limit an art. (I'm a high school art teacher by the way). I just watched an interesting video by Sensei Patrick McCarthy that discusses how the Japanese emphasis on conformity adversely affected the practical effectiveness of Okinawan Karate--www.martialartsview.com --episode S4:E4.

Interestingly, some of the really old photos of Okinawan Te shown in the video come straight from Fukien White Crane and look a whole lot like WT/WC. There's a very old photo of a small, skinny, bald-headed old guy who resembles GGM Yip Man. He's executing a WC/WT style mid-level front kick and simultaneously striking to the face (thumb in the eye, vertical palm along the jaw) just like the "piercing-hands" movement at the beginning of Chum Kiu. It's a perfect simultaneous defense and double counter-attack.

Anyway, if the later Japanese emphasis on uniformity and simplified militaristic drills reduced this art to what it later became, then I'd rather put up with the problem of too much individuality in WC/WT. It's definitely the lesser of two evils.

De todos modos, "Vale mas el modo viejo."

 

[Yoshiyahu]

You can call it politics...but its just people...people who are arrogant like to control and manipulate and alter truth...Those people can not be reason with...Pride comes right before a fall....The only way you can reason with a fool is by Thrashing....


But keep living and learning you will grow more my way as time increase....


I too was privately train as well...So I know what you mean?


A good movie to see which will help you understand my philosphy is called the the Emperor and the Assasin


Also watch Hero first....it is more like a remake of the Emperor and the Assasin but Hero by Jet Li has more action...Then watch the Emperor and the Assasin an you will understand why he had to kill all those people who were trying to assasinate him an who wouldn't conform to his rule...You will truly see what he was trying to do...Emperor Qin was a Genuis and the majority doesn't like change...they will fight to death against change...Even if it means unification!

The Emperor and the Assassin(1999)

http://www.blockbuster.com/catalog/movieDetails/134804
The Emperor and the Assassin (1999)

Its not really a Martial Flick but it shows the History of the Formation of China which ended alot of divison and senseless bloodshed...Similiar to whats happening right now in Africa because of Religion and different ideologies...Foolishness if you asked me!


Check the Trailer out

http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catalog/movie/trailer/134804

I'm starting to see your point more and more, and come over to this way of thinking. Being trained privately for the past 4 years I haven't been aware of alot of these issues until just recently. And It's been an ugly wakeup call to the politics that plague the art.
It's really a shame.

 

[Si-Je]

That looks like a great story and movie! I will keep an eye out for it. We've seen Hero, too.
But, I don't think so much what we need is an "emperor" as much as what is needed is an common unifier. A need instilled to unify and ally all the branches of WC/WT/VT as more of an alliance per se.

In terms of terminology, I think a couple of linguists would be very helpful to develop a more common foundation of terminology to help other schools bridge the gaps of understanding to make it easier for us all to compare notes and techniques without so much confusion.

In terms of arrogant people or masters I'm seeing that their days are waning and people want more than to blindly follow "scripture" when their learning WC/WT. If these masters do not give their knowledge to their students, it will just die with them and their lineage will fizzle away and become obsolete. Simple laws of nature.
In the meantime, this can and is causing alot of problems for the students of WC/WT to bear, and this I do not like. For it seems to be leading to the watering down and "supplementing" of other arts becomeing "necessary" in the art of WC/WT. Whether or not these masters are aware of this or profiting from it is unimportant, for those that act this way are irrevelant to me in my thinking of the perpetuation of the art. I will not waste time educating or "thrashing" a fool, but I will not tolerate their interferrence either.

Again, these issues should be plenty for all branches of WC/WT/VT to come together and share and unify their teachings. By doing this they would leave the arrogant, and selffish teachers to the dust and evolove together a stronger, and more easily transferable and appliciple art. Would this be a kind of "war"? I gues it certianly would, but a more productive type of war, I think. Instead of totally destroying all WC/WT and leaving only a few left, it would ideally save more of the art for all.
Kinda makes me think of another of Jet Li's movies: Fearless. About the unification of Wu Shu in China. I'm thinking along maybe more of that type of "war".

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well how do people know true WC...Most of the time all they have is waterd down WC to look at...So if they were to have the real deal...would they even know it?

That looks like a great story and movie! I will keep an eye out for it. We've seen Hero, too.
But, I don't think so much what we need is an "emperor" as much as what is needed is an common unifier. A need instilled to unify and ally all the branches of WC/WT/VT as more of an alliance per se.

In terms of terminology, I think a couple of linguists would be very helpful to develop a more common foundation of terminology to help other schools bridge the gaps of understanding to make it easier for us all to compare notes and techniques without so much confusion.

In terms of arrogant people or masters I'm seeing that their days are waning and people want more than to blindly follow "scripture" when their learning WC/WT. If these masters do not give their knowledge to their students, it will just die with them and their lineage will fizzle away and become obsolete. Simple laws of nature.
In the meantime, this can and is causing alot of problems for the students of WC/WT to bear, and this I do not like. For it seems to be leading to the watering down and "supplementing" of other arts becomeing "necessary" in the art of WC/WT. Whether or not these masters are aware of this or profiting from it is unimportant, for those that act this way are irrevelant to me in my thinking of the perpetuation of the art. I will not waste time educating or "thrashing" a fool, but I will not tolerate their interferrence either.

Again, these issues should be plenty for all branches of WC/WT/VT to come together and share and unify their teachings. By doing this they would leave the arrogant, and selffish teachers to the dust and evolove together a stronger, and more easily transferable and appliciple art. Would this be a kind of "war"? I gues it certianly would, but a more productive type of war, I think. Instead of totally destroying all WC/WT and leaving only a few left, it would ideally save more of the art for all.
Kinda makes me think of another of Jet Li's movies: Fearless. About the unification of Wu Shu in China. I'm thinking along maybe more of that type of "war".

 

[Si-Je]

Well how do people know true WC...Most of the time all they have is waterd down WC to look at...So if they were to have the real deal...would they even know it?

Ack! good question! lol! I really don't know. I guess education and exposure is the only way?

 

[Yoshiyahu]

There is no real way now and days to tell if you got the real deal...Until you got it and discover how other peoples WC lacks this and that...

Ack! good question! lol! I really don't know. I guess education and exposure is the only way?

 

[KamonGuy2]

I have the true wing chun

Come and train with me

Its yours for £200 a month bwahahahahaha

 

[Yoshiyahu]

What makes your WC the real deal?

Please share with me?

I have the true wing chun

Come and train with me

Its yours for £200 a month bwahahahahaha

 

[KamonGuy2]

What makes your WC the real deal?

Please share with me?

Like I said, pay me £200 a month and I will show you bwahahaha!

 

[geezer]

Like I said, pay me £200 a month and I will show you bwahahaha!

Yoshi, since you sometimes write with what appears to be a foreign accent, perhaps you didn't quite "get" Kamon's point. Allow me to step in and clarify Kamon's remarks. "Bwahahaha!" is the sound of the near hysterical laughter of an evil genius bent on world domination. So now that you know who and what he is, do not believe what he says, and do not, under any circumstances send him your money!!!

Oh, and please do not be offended that I thought your writing seemed to have an accent. From time to time, people tell me that I write like an Englishman!?! I'm not, and I try not to take offense.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well my Friend I may have accent..I live in the great whore Babylon. So we over hear have an accent. How much is £200 in Ameros?


quote=geezer;1104984]Yoshi, since you sometimes write with what appears to be a foreign accent, perhaps you didn't quite "get" Kamon's point. Allow me to step in and clarify Kamon's remarks. "Bwahahaha!" is the sound of the near hysterical laughter of an evil genius bent on world domination. So now that you know who and what he is, do not believe what he says, and do not, under any circumstances send him your money!!!

Oh, and please do not be offended that I thought your writing seemed to have an accent. From time to time, people tell me that I write like an Englishman!?! I'm not, and I try not to take offense.[/quote]

 

[dungeonworks]

Well my Friend I may have accent..I live in the great whore Babylon. So we over hear have an accent. How much is £200 in Ameros?

Only about $10,000 US. :BSmeter:

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Are you serious...come on get real...I don't think its that much!

Only about $10,000 US. :BSmeter:

 

[dungeonworks]

Are you serious...come on get real...I don't think its that much!

I was joking! :ultracool

That would be like $300 US actually....maybe $250 but somwhere in that ball park estimate.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Ha Ha

I was joking! :ultracool

That would be like $300 US actually....maybe $250 but somwhere in that ball park estimate.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I was joking! :ultracool

That would be like $300 US actually....maybe $250 but somwhere in that ball park estimate.

After the credit crunch, $10000 is probably right.....

The point I was making is that a lot of kung fu schools will sell people 'the real deal' in order to make profit

As I mentioned before, there was the whole Benny meng scandal in the US where he offered to teach his students teh secret deadlytechniques of wing chun (think he called them the deadly three techniques or somthing like that) When students showed up, he merely showed them finger striking and that was about it

I never get too wrapped up in hype. There are people that I want to see - Ip Chun, Dan Inosanto, Emin Boztepe etc, mainly because they are interesting characters with a lot of experience

If I saw a seminar stating 'Come and Learn the Secret Techniques of Wing Chun' I would laugh for a few seconds, shout at loud and then walk away...

 

[dungeonworks]

I spoke with a guy that was in discipleship with Benny Meng about a year and a half ago....all I will say is that your offer for the real Wing Chun is a VERY VERY VERY good deal compared to the $35,000 (US) this guy was expected to pay Benny Meng!!! I believe he is no longer interested! :mst:

 

[Yoshiyahu]

How about you just give me $2000 a month I will train you deadly secrets of WC.

The fisrt skill is how to hold your breath for two hours. Once you achieve that your chi level is high enough to start crushing bolders with one finger and exploding hearts with a shout from your diaphram. Its called the Chi Voice projection...Very dangerous technique.


Then after we go over that I will teach you how to jump higher. Like on roof tops. The best way to escape a fight is to jump up on thirty foot building. That way when your surrounded you can always make your escape on top of McDonalds building or Gas station. Or if your in the hood jump on top of two family flat and run from roof to roof. This skill is more defensive than dangerous. But I think you can use it in a street fight. My classes are only $2000. First you will learn how to hold your breath for two hours then the rest will come easily.


Course Curriculm
1.Causing earth quakes with your mind
2.Disengrating flesh chi ball blast
3.Fist of North Star technique
4.The Quickening
5.Knife blocking bullets techniques
6.Catching bullets with your teeth
7.Catching bullets with your iron palms
8.Flesh with standing Fire technique
9.Death touch from fifty feet away(By gesturing the hand)
10.Causing your opponents death with a shout from your voice!

Join my class today and get the first month free.

I spoke with a guy that was in discipleship with Benny Meng about a year and a half ago....all I will say is that your offer for the real Wing Chun is a VERY VERY VERY good deal compared to the $35,000 (US) this guy was expected to pay Benny Meng!!! I believe he is no longer interested! :mst: