The truth about self-defense

[drop bear]

It will appear to be the same right up to the point where things get serious and the person actually has to use it to defend themselves. We can take the Rousey's striking match as an example. She believed that she was a good striker, but her training and results showed a different story. She was confident right up until that first punch in her face and that's when reality sunk in. A person who has real confidence about their striking ability would have been able to recover and regroup from that punch. Being stunned would not have been enough to break the spirit because you know that some self-defense techniques would have automatically kicked in like covering and keeping distance long enough to recover a bit.

So back to knowing that you can fight. When you are confident that you can fight then you reek of the smell of "I will stomp you into the ground." Even when you are deescalating the situation, that message would still be loud and clear. People who think they can fight, don't have the same air about themselves. The best way I can describe it is that "predators recognize predators" and can often pick up when someone really isn't as tough as they say they are. Someone who knows how to fight moves differently than someone who believes they can fight. I wish I could explain it better than that, but if you have sparred against many people, you could almost tell right away which ones you had to approach with caution and the ones where you knew you could out do them. Sometimes in a street confrontation, I will see a guy that I know I can beat in a fist fight but for some reason he moves as if he as an advantage that I don't know about, and then that's when I start thinking weapons. It's just a different feel. The more a person does continuous sparring the easier it'll be for that person to pick up the differences.

It is also easier to de-escalate if you are not scared for your life. De-escalation is a pretty hard technique to pull off under stress. All those fine motor skills people honk on about also apply to having effective conversations.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Not obvious at all. Without any actual data, we just don't know. Using gloves to train and reinforce sound punching technique could actually reduce the frequency of breaking the hands. Or it could be a wash. We might just as easily find that gloves have no real impact on this one way or the other.

This kind of reasoning is how myths are perpetuated.

You're basing your statement on a false assumption. Using gloves to train doesn't reinforce sound punching technique. People, like boxers, who train exclusively in gloves do not practice what would be considered sound punching technique by those who train without gloves.

 

[Steve]

You're basing your statement on a false assumption. Using gloves to train doesn't reinforce sound punching technique. People, like boxers, who train exclusively in gloves do not practice what would be considered sound punching technique by those who train without gloves.

No, I'm suggesting that without actual data, you're speculating based on what you believe vs what you know.

 

[drop bear]

You're basing your statement on a false assumption. Using gloves to train doesn't reinforce sound punching technique. People, like boxers, who train exclusively in gloves do not practice what would be considered sound punching technique by those who train without gloves.

Ok. How do you know using gloves to train doesn't reinforce sound punching technique?

Why are non glove trained people the experts on sound punching technique?

 

[KangTsai]

Umm..so you think Tyson can't hit hard without a glove on...you do kmow this is a guy with a very long history of street fights

I meant his peek-a-boo.

 

[Paul_D]

You can break your hand in a boxing match to

You can, but then I never said you couldn't.

 

[Hanzou]

You're basing your statement on a false assumption. Using gloves to train doesn't reinforce sound punching technique. People, like boxers, who train exclusively in gloves do not practice what would be considered sound punching technique by those who train without gloves.

So those old school Kung Fu and Okinawan Karate practitioners who have disfigured and mangled hands (from decades of hitting hard objects without gloves) practice sound punching techniques?

 

[Buka]

To me...The truth about self defense - you need to know how to fight. I don't believe all the training in the world can teach you how to defend yourself without active, resistive fighting being part of that training.

I also believe that the psychologies used in de-escalation, avoidance etc are more reliable and successfully tested amongst those trained in fighting than in those who do not fight as part of their training. I also believe the more experienced at fighting a person becomes, the less likely he will ever be sucked into a situation that might have been otherwise avoided.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

To me...The truth about self defense - you need to know how to fight. I don't believe all the training in the world can teach you how to defend yourself without active, resistive fighting being part of that training.

I also believe that the psychologies used in de-escalation, avoidance etc are more reliable and successfully tested amongst those trained in fighting than in those who do not fight as part of their training. I also believe the more experienced at fighting a person becomes, the less likely he will ever be sucked into a situation that might have been otherwise avoided.

It's good to have choices. The more you have, the better the outcome is likely to be.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I also believe that the psychologies used in de-escalation, avoidance etc are more reliable and successfully tested amongst those trained in fighting than in those who do not fight as part of their training.

The video below probably fits your statement.

After I read your statement I wondered if he had trained in any kind of fighting system. After doing some research on him I found this. "Mr. Sonder, who was a Rhode Island state wrestling champion at 189 pounds in high school" source: NYTimes

We have all seen people trying to break fights up and it rarely goes this smoothly.

 

[drop bear]

You can, but then I never said you couldn't.

Yeah. But if you can break your hand in a boxing match.

It kind of discredits the idea that boxers punch without risk to their hands.

Or am i missing something?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I also believe that the psychologies used in de-escalation, avoidance etc are more reliable and successfully tested amongst those trained in fighting than in those who do not fight as part of their training.

This probably fits your statement as well. I didn't bother to try to do research on the woman who tried to de-escalate the fight. It was clear at 0:00 when the cup hit her that she lacked any real awareness or skill to de-escalate. 0:10 confirmed my thoughts. 0:20 confirm that she didn't have any defense but could take a punch. After that the options for de-escalation is that the guy in the truck gets away because the car had extensive damage.

I'm pretty sure that she doesn't carry the same vibe as these ladies when she walks or talks.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So those old school Kung Fu and Okinawan Karate practitioners who have disfigured and mangled hands (from decades of hitting hard objects without gloves) practice sound punching techniques?

When hand or knuckle training is done incorrectly then it will show big time. You can look at at persons hand and say "I think you did that wrong." because their hand looks all busted up.

 

[drop bear]

When hand or knuckle training is done incorrectly then it will show big time. You can look at at persons hand and say "I think you did that wrong." because their hand looks all busted up.

the experts on this subject seem to be self appointed. So i have a system of hand hardening that is valid because i am an expert on hand hardening. And i am an expert because i have a system.

Now i am judging the effectiveness of hand hardening of others by what is accepted methods by the experts.

Now the issue is there seems to be no objective method of determining if any of these hand hardening methods do anything at all.

Or in otherwords we seem to be dealing with voodo.

 

[Buka]

the experts on this subject seem to be self appointed. So i have a system of hand hardening that is valid because i am an expert on hand hardening. And i am an expert because i have a system.

Now i am judging the effectiveness of hand hardening of others by what is accepted methods by the experts.

Now the issue is there seems to be no objective method of determining if any of these hand hardening methods do anything at all.

Or in otherwords we seem to be dealing with voodo.

God, I so like voodoo. Not the actual art (or whatever it is, just the word, it just sounds cool)

There is something to be said for the hardening of hands. I don't mean in any particular training regimen, just in the hardening itself. For instance - take a guy who's been working construction for ten years. Full time, every day. Compare him to a guy who's been working in an office cubicle every day, and doing nothing else physical. There's going to be a seriously big difference in their hands.

Switch them up from the beginning, put the construction guy in the office and vice versa. Different hands again, at least in the realm of how hands may be considered "tough" and relate to being injured.

Now, take that laborer who's been working forty to fifty hours a week in the cold, the heat, the dirt, the steel and the rock for a friken' decade....and give him a hobby. I don't know, let's say Martial Arts. And he decides his hands are his strength - so he works them even more.

I've known and trained a few guys like that. Damn scary hands. Damn scary.

 

[Paul_D]

To me...The truth about self defense - you need to know how to fight. I don't believe all the training in the world can teach you how to defend yourself without active, resistive fighting being part of that training.

You are entitled to believe it, but both my wife and myself know this not to be true.

If you were talking about wining fights, then yes resistive fighting is a must, but for self defence, no.

 

[drop bear]

God, I so like voodoo. Not the actual art (or whatever it is, just the word, it just sounds cool)

There is something to be said for the hardening of hands. I don't mean in any particular training regimen, just in the hardening itself. For instance - take a guy who's been working construction for ten years. Full time, every day. Compare him to a guy who's been working in an office cubicle every day, and doing nothing else physical. There's going to be a seriously big difference in their hands.

Switch them up from the beginning, put the construction guy in the office and vice versa. Different hands again, at least in the realm of how hands may be considered "tough" and relate to being injured.

Now, take that laborer who's been working forty to fifty hours a week in the cold, the heat, the dirt, the steel and the rock for a friken' decade....and give him a hobby. I don't know, let's say Martial Arts. And he decides his hands are his strength - so he works them even more.

I've known and trained a few guys like that. Damn scary hands. Damn scary.

I am sure there is a method. And ways of reliably hardening hands. But then these methods would have some sort of test. I dont know can hit harder things than they did before or something.

I was thinking tamwashagere or something.

If you harden your hands to engage in one self defence fight in your life it is not really a Ahah. method works moment.

So say you are bruce haynes. And you say I have this hand training hardening system. He could point to his own epic breakimg and I would say yeah fair point. Obviously you have something there

But so far none of these hand hardening advocates have exibited any harder hands than anybody else.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The video below probably fits your statement.

After I read your statement I wondered if he had trained in any kind of fighting system. After doing some research on him I found this. "Mr. Sonder, who was a Rhode Island state wrestling champion at 189 pounds in high school" source: NYTimes

We have all seen people trying to break fights up and it rarely goes this smoothly.

The ability to handle the possible attacks while intervening adds a level of confidence. Confidence has probably stopped more fights than anything else.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've known and trained a few guys like that. Damn scary hands. Damn scary.

My cousin has hands like stone from just doing manual work with his hands. The first time I met him I shook his hands and my brain instantly sent a warning message "don't ever let someone with hands like this grab you or hit you." It felt like a giant had grabbed my hand and that he could crush it any time he wants. I don't know if he could actually fight. I just knew that he started swinging those fists, I better do my best to get out of the way.

f you were talking about wining fights, then yes resistive fighting is a must, but for self defence, no.

For me Active resistance doesn't just mean physically fighting. It's easy to say to someone to be more aware of their environment and then leave it at that, but people who are in stalking mode are trying to do so without your awareness. To me that is the resistance. So unless you experience something like this then "be aware of the environment" doesn't have the same meaning. For example, a guy standing next to a woman with a purse, is not the same as a guy standing next to a woman with a purse, who has the intent of reaching into her purse and taking something with out her noticing. That guy or gal will do everything possible to avoid your awareness and the awareness of others.

Examples:

You may say that guy at the gas station was hiding on the other side of the car. But the truth of the matter, the only thing that was really giving him a green light to steal was her not looking in the direction of her drivers side. We he though she was looking his way he would stop, when he thought someone else would see him, he would stop. So to me this is resistance.