The truth about self-defense

[JowGaWolf]

31:25 - 32:03 Not sure why so many people today don't understand this about martial arts and the ability for a person to be able to defend himself /herself. So many schools try to get the confidence without the ability of the student to defend themselves. The confidence that comes with knowing you can defend yourself is not the same confidence that people get when they think they can defend themselves.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some good stuff at 51:11
Rising block
51:20
Middle block (inward) against long fist jab. And some other stuff. There are quite a few techniques that look like the pictures of the techniques that look like the drawings of bareknuckle fighters. You'll have to watch it in slow motion to see the techniques.

 

[KangTsai]

Some good stuff at 51:11
Rising block
51:20
Middle block (inward) against long fist jab. And some other stuff.

Those techniques never seem to work for me. Probably because I'm not fast with them, because usually I eat a fat looping left hook when I pull my chin down and upper block. I feel that boxers are getting too fast and too advanced each passing day that some methods don't become viable.

 

[drop bear]

Those techniques never seem to work for me. Probably because I'm not fast with them, because usually I eat a fat looping left hook when I pull my chin down and upper block. I feel that boxers are getting too fast and too advanced each passing day that some methods don't become viable.

It would work if there was one big punch you know is coming. But fighters work with deception a bit. And so will take advantage of any large defensive movement if they can pick out that it is your go to.

I have been faked and then uppercuted with the other hand like that before.

 

[KangTsai]

It would work if there was one big punch you know is coming. But fighters work with deception a bit. And so will take advantage of any large defensive movement if they can pick out that it is your go to.

I have been faked and then uppercuted with the other hand like that before.

Precisely my point

 

[JowGaWolf]

Those techniques never seem to work for me. Probably because I'm not fast with them, because usually I eat a fat looping left hook when I pull my chin down and upper block. I feel that boxers are getting too fast and too advanced each passing day that some methods don't become viable.

Techniques are always about timing mechanics, and picking the right tool for the situation. If a technique doesn't work for you then, you are probably off in one or more of those areas.(timing, mechanics, right tool for the situation).

The next time you do an upper block, punch at the same time. The same time that your upper block starts is the same time your punch starts. You can't use the upper block for every punch. You have to pick the right punch to use it on. As for techniques not being viable. I would have to say that the size of the gloves played an important role in changing the techniques being used. Early boxing gloves were smaller than today's boxing gloves. Just like you don't see modern MMA fighter guard their face like modern boxer guard their face. The things boxers do with larger gloves that can't be done with smaller gloves.

If I was going to guess then I would say that today's modern boxing techniques evolved around the glove. The old techniques are still viable, they just aren't viable with the modern glove.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Precisely my point

when you spar, do you try to make your opponent throw the punches that you want him to throw? or do you just let him throw whatever he wants and you react to it?

 

[KangTsai]

Techniques are always about timing mechanics, and picking the right tool for the situation. If a technique doesn't work for you then, you are probably off in one or more of those areas.(timing, mechanics, right tool for the situation).

The next time you do an upper block, punch at the same time. The same time that your upper block starts is the same time your punch starts. You can't use the upper block for every punch. You have to pick the right punch to use it on. As for techniques not being viable. I would have to say that the size of the gloves played an important role in changing the techniques being used. Early boxing gloves were smaller than today's boxing gloves. Just like you don't see modern MMA fighter guard their face like modern boxer guard their face. The things boxers do with larger gloves that can't be done with smaller gloves.

If I was going to guess then I would say that today's modern boxing techniques evolved around the glove. The old techniques are still viable, they just aren't viable with the modern glove.

Thanks for the punching tip. Surprisingly I found that sort of move (parry + hit) very effective in my fat-child-YouTube-martial-arts stage.
I usually don't consider the the use of gloves when I train, even when training with gloves.
That said, boxing is a sport as much as it is a martial art, so the physical game elements (the gloves) are to be utilised to full potential, obviously. Mike Tyson's boxing wouldn't have half the effectiveness of it weren't for gloves.

 

[drop bear]

Thanks for the punching tip. Surprisingly I found that sort of move (parry + hit) very effective in my fat-child-YouTube-martial-arts stage.
I usually don't consider the the use of gloves when I train, even when training with gloves.
That said, boxing is a sport as much as it is a martial art, so the physical game elements (the gloves) are to be utilised to full potential, obviously. Mike Tyson's boxing wouldn't have half the effectiveness of it weren't for gloves.

I wouldnt do a round with him bare knuckle.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Thanks for the punching tip. Surprisingly I found that sort of move (parry + hit) very effective in my fat-child-YouTube-martial-arts stage.
I usually don't consider the the use of gloves when I train, even when training with gloves.
That said, boxing is a sport as much as it is a martial art, so the physical game elements (the gloves) are to be utilised to full potential, obviously. Mike Tyson's boxing wouldn't have half the effectiveness of it weren't for gloves.

Umm..so you think Tyson can't hit hard without a glove on...you do kmow this is a guy with a very long history of street fights

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Umm..so you think Tyson can't hit hard without a glove on...you do kmow this is a guy with a very long history of street fights

And I'd guess he wasn't hitting as hard without the gloves. Mind you, he didn't need to - no gloves to block with, either.

 

[Paul_D]

The confidence that comes with knowing you can defend yourself is not the same confidence that people get when they think they can defend themselves.

But if the person doesn't know the difference, isn't the confidence it gives them going to be the same? At least until such time as their mistake becomes apparent.

Umm..so you think Tyson can't hit hard without a glove on...you do kmow this is a guy with a very long history of street fights

But he broke his hand in a street fight, which therefore so reduces his effectiveness. So Kangtsai's point is valid in that respect.

 

[drop bear]

But if the person doesn't know the difference, isn't the confidence it gives them going to be the same? At least until such time as their mistake becomes apparent.


But he broke his hand in a street fight, which therefore so reduces his effectiveness. So Kangtsai's point is valid in that respect.

That happens in street fights. Even if you are doing everything right.

 

[Kickboxer101]

But if the person doesn't know the difference, isn't the confidence it gives them going to be the same? At least until such time as their mistake becomes apparent.


But he broke his hand in a street fight, which therefore so reduces his effectiveness. So Kangtsai's point is valid in that respect.

You can break your hand in a boxing match to

 

[Dirty Dog]

That happens in street fights. Even if you are doing everything right.

It could be argued that if you broke your hand, you didn't do everything right, by definition. Because not breaking your hand is part of doing it right...

Nobody has a zero percent chance of breaking their hand when they strike. But it seems obvious that gloves, which protect the hand, allow you to get away with things that you cannot do without gloves. So it's not unreasonable to say that a person who trains exclusively with gloves has a higher chance of injuring their own hand during a strike than someone who trains without gloves. How much difference there is is undefinable, but it's seems clear that there would be some increase.

 

[JowGaWolf]

But if the person doesn't know the difference, isn't the confidence it gives them going to be the same? At least until such time as their mistake becomes apparent.

It will appear to be the same right up to the point where things get serious and the person actually has to use it to defend themselves. We can take the Rousey's striking match as an example. She believed that she was a good striker, but her training and results showed a different story. She was confident right up until that first punch in her face and that's when reality sunk in. A person who has real confidence about their striking ability would have been able to recover and regroup from that punch. Being stunned would not have been enough to break the spirit because you know that some self-defense techniques would have automatically kicked in like covering and keeping distance long enough to recover a bit.

So back to knowing that you can fight. When you are confident that you can fight then you reek of the smell of "I will stomp you into the ground." Even when you are deescalating the situation, that message would still be loud and clear. People who think they can fight, don't have the same air about themselves. The best way I can describe it is that "predators recognize predators" and can often pick up when someone really isn't as tough as they say they are. Someone who knows how to fight moves differently than someone who believes they can fight. I wish I could explain it better than that, but if you have sparred against many people, you could almost tell right away which ones you had to approach with caution and the ones where you knew you could out do them. Sometimes in a street confrontation, I will see a guy that I know I can beat in a fist fight but for some reason he moves as if he as an advantage that I don't know about, and then that's when I start thinking weapons. It's just a different feel. The more a person does continuous sparring the easier it'll be for that person to pick up the differences.

 

[Steve]

It could be argued that if you broke your hand, you didn't do everything right, by definition. Because not breaking your hand is part of doing it right...

Nobody has a zero percent chance of breaking their hand when they strike. But it seems obvious that gloves, which protect the hand, allow you to get away with things that you cannot do without gloves. So it's not unreasonable to say that a person who trains exclusively with gloves has a higher chance of injuring their own hand during a strike than someone who trains without gloves. How much difference there is is undefinable, but it's seems clear that there would be some increase.

Not obvious at all. Without any actual data, we just don't know. Using gloves to train and reinforce sound punching technique could actually reduce the frequency of breaking the hands. Or it could be a wash. We might just as easily find that gloves have no real impact on this one way or the other.

This kind of reasoning is how myths are perpetuated.

 

[Steve]

It will appear to be the same right up to the point where things get serious and the person actually has to use it to defend themselves. We can take the Rousey's striking match as an example. She believed that she was a good striker, but her training and results showed a different story. She was confident right up until that first punch in her face and that's when reality sunk in. A person who has real confidence about their striking ability would have been able to recover and regroup from that punch. Being stunned would not have been enough to break the spirit because you know that some self-defense techniques would have automatically kicked in like covering and keeping distance long enough to recover a bit.

So back to knowing that you can fight. When you are confident that you can fight then you reek of the smell of "I will stomp you into the ground." Even when you are deescalating the situation, that message would still be loud and clear. People who think they can fight, don't have the same air about themselves. The best way I can describe it is that "predators recognize predators" and can often pick up when someone really isn't as tough as they say they are. Someone who knows how to fight moves differently than someone who believes they can fight. I wish I could explain it better than that, but if you have sparred against many people, you could almost tell right away which ones you had to approach with caution and the ones where you knew you could out do them. Sometimes in a street confrontation, I will see a guy that I know I can beat in a fist fight but for some reason he moves as if he as an advantage that I don't know about, and then that's when I start thinking weapons. It's just a different feel. The more a person does continuous sparring the easier it'll be for that person to pick up the differences.

Completely agree. I don't have anything to add other than I'm so glad to see this fundamental point being made by someone else.

 

[drop bear]

It could be argued that if you broke your hand, you didn't do everything right, by definition. Because not breaking your hand is part of doing it right...

Nobody has a zero percent chance of breaking their hand when they strike. But it seems obvious that gloves, which protect the hand, allow you to get away with things that you cannot do without gloves. So it's not unreasonable to say that a person who trains exclusively with gloves has a higher chance of injuring their own hand during a strike than someone who trains without gloves. How much difference there is is undefinable, but it's seems clear that there would be some increase.

You can do everything right in a fight and the other guy can do things righter. It is kind of a fight concept.

The gloves vs no gloves thing isnt really sensible logic.

The training is different. So comparing the two doesnt really count.

Lets use an extreme and silly example. Say I do shadow sparring without gloves and someone else spars full contact with gloves.

So far there is no evidence one method works and one doesnt.

Now that person gets in a fight and breaks his hand. Still nothing there has validated my training style. A guy has just broken his hand in a fight.

I can only really validate my system by the evidence of my system. So I do a lot of bare knuckle shadow sparring and either break my hands a lot on peoples heads or I dont.

So if I come up with a bare knuckle system that protects my hands. I have to come up with evidence that supports my system.

 

[drop bear]

Not obvious at all. Without any actual data, we just don't know. Using gloves to train and reinforce sound punching technique could actually reduce the frequency of breaking the hands. Or it could be a wash. We might just as easily find that gloves have no real impact on this one way or the other.

This kind of reasoning is how myths are perpetuated.

For example.

Mike tyson trains in shorts and so wasn't used to fighting in pants and therefore broke his hand.