The President's speech

[Makalakumu]

So what did everyone think? What were the main points? What was strong? What was weak?

 

[michaeledward]

I was wondering who the Democrat was that invaded Bush's body during the first half of the speech. Wasn't much 'Conserving' going on there, was there.

• "And government must take your side."
• "So we will double the number of people served by our principal job training program and increase funding for community colleges."
• "we will create American opportunity zones."
• "improve housing and job training to bring hope and work throughout all of America."
• "In a new term, we must allow small firms to join together to purchase insurance at the discounts available to big companies."
• "I will ensure every poor county in America has a community or rural health center."
• "Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, "
• "we will fund early intervention programs to help students at risk."
• "expanding Pell Grants "

And the list goes on ... I have to imagine that those Republicans who seem themselves as the party of Ronald Reagan, Who never met a goverment program he didn't want to eliminate, will have to be pretty upset about all of these initiatives.

 

[Flatlander]

In a two party system with the polling showing how close they are right now, it doesn't surprise me that there's some expanding of policy horizons going on....though whether or not any of it will bear fruit AFTER the election is another question.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I only saw the first 10 minutes or so of his speech, but I do remember a certain phrase that I don't remember hearing since the last election: compassionate conservatism (or maybe it's conservativism, at which point I guess I've pulled a Bushism). Considering that his administration hasn't been that compassionate the last four years, I'm betting he's just saying all this to get re-elected.

 

[michaeledward]

Does anyone know what a compassionate conservative is? I mean other than relatively clever alliteration.

 

[CanuckMA]

Does anyone know what a compassionate conservative is? I mean other than relatively clever alliteration.

I means he'll feel sorry for you when you can't afford your medical bills.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Is there a transcript anywhere?
I really can't stand to hear him talk, figured I'd just read it later and this way miss the 'sound gaffs'.

 

[JPR]

Compassionate Conservative is a term that came into being to counter the rhetoric used in politics that defined a conservative as “mean spirited” and / or “uncaring” (with regards to social issues). It is used much like the term Moderate Democrat is used to counter Republican characterization of the Democrats. Republicans tend to cast Democrats as: liberal (socially and morally), tax and spend, elitist (they know what is best for me), big government (the answer to any challenge is another government program), anti-business (save the <insert your favorite animal here> we don’t need oil to live), soft on crime and defense and intrusionist (want to direct everybody’s life / money / property). The Democrats tend to cast Republicans as: hawkish (war is good for the defense industry and my stock in Halliburton), rich, uncaring (will starve women, children, and minorities), exclusionary (old white men only please), big business (kill the baby <insert your favorite animal here> we need oil), prejudice, and religious fanatics.



To me, the true sadness of the whole thing is that everyone spends so much time calling each other names, fighting over power, and generally acting like preadolescents on the play ground that we loose all of the issues and the chance to really work together to solve them.



The current campaign is a great example. We are spending hundreds of hours debating and researching Vietnam war records, National Guard services records, who is really paying for Swift Boat Veterans or MoveOn.org that we have little time or energy left to look into the important things. We are drowning in the “thick of thin things”. In the end I doubt we will every really hear a good debate on a foreign policy of preemptive strikes to combat terrorism, education reform, or any of the dozen or so other issues that concern me about the future.

I'll get off my :soapbox: now.

JPR

 

[Makalakumu]

I was wondering who the Democrat was that invaded Bush's body during the first half of the speech. Wasn't much 'Conserving' going on there, was there.

• "And government must take your side."
• "So we will double the number of people served by our principal job training program and increase funding for community colleges."
• "we will create American opportunity zones."
• "improve housing and job training to bring hope and work throughout all of America."
• "In a new term, we must allow small firms to join together to purchase insurance at the discounts available to big companies."
• "I will ensure every poor county in America has a community or rural health center."
• "Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, "
• "we will fund early intervention programs to help students at risk."
• "expanding Pell Grants "

And the list goes on ... I have to imagine that those Republicans who seem themselves as the party of Ronald Reagan, Who never met a goverment program he didn't want to eliminate, will have to be pretty upset about all of these initiatives.

Notice the lack of enthusiasm on the part of the RNC. I really like all of those ideas!

 

[Brother John]

Does anyone know what a compassionate conservative is? I mean other than relatively clever alliteration.

I've always thought that the image/stigma of 'lack of compassion' has been placed on conservatives by.... non-conservatives. So to me, in my mind, a compassionate conservative is a naturally occuring phenomenon.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

To me, the true sadness of the whole thing is that everyone spends so much time calling each other names, fighting over power, and generally acting like preadolescents on the play ground that we loose all of the issues and the chance to really work together to solve them.



The current campaign is a great example. We are spending hundreds of hours debating and researching Vietnam war records, National Guard services records, who is really paying for Swift Boat Veterans or MoveOn.org that we have little time or energy left to look into the important things. We are drowning in the &#8220;thick of thin things&#8221;. In the end I doubt we will every really hear a good debate on a foreign policy of preemptive strikes to combat terrorism, education reform, or any of the dozen or so other issues that concern me about the future.[/font
I'll get off my :soapbox: now.
JPR

It's a GOOD soap box. Stay on it!!!

Your Brother
John

 

[michaeledward]

Is there a transcript anywhere?
I really can't stand to hear him talk, figured I'd just read it later and this way miss the 'sound gaffs'.

CNN dot COM

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/02/gop.bush.transcript/index.html

 

[michaeledward]

I've always thought that the image/stigma of 'lack of compassion' has been placed on conservatives by.... non-conservatives. So to me, in my mind, a compassionate conservative is a naturally occuring phenomenon.

Your Brother
John

How would the actions of a 'compassionate conservative' manifest? If I were to see them, how would I recognize them?

Seasons changing occur naturally, and I can observe it just by watching leaves change color, snow falling, budding plants, swarming insects; how would I observe 'compassionate conservatism'.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh. "Compassionate conservative," is one of those terms that came into being as a counter to the other side's successful rhetoric?

This would make it a lot like, "politically correct," which came into being as a left-wing ironic remark about holier-than-thou left wingers, and was adopted by the creepy likes of Rush Limbaugh.

Actually, no. "Compassionate conservative," is pretty much a Republican, vat-grown piece of rhetoric, which has been employed to suggest that the likes of our current Prez aren't pretty much ruthless, elitist oligarchs who honestly feel themselves heaven-sent to lead we poor sheep, and who honestly feel that it is wrong to spare the rod or help sinners.

As a number of networks--and Stewart's "Daily Show," noted--the present Convention is busily showcasing EXACTLY the people who are most acceptable to the public, and who have been most excluded from the Party.

So, we're seeing lotsa black people on the tube. And Asian, and Hispanic, and whatever else....and "moderates," like Schwarzenegger (any party where Conan is the voice of reason....run screaming)....and even ex-soldiers like McCain, who help compensate for the Bush admin's draft-dodgers. Hey, incidentally, where'd they hide Colin Powell?

 

[Makalakumu]

So, we're seeing lotsa black people on the tube. And Asian, and Hispanic, and whatever else....and "moderates," like Schwarzenegger (any party where Conan is the voice of reason....run screaming)....and even ex-soldiers like McCain, who help compensate for the Bush admin's draft-dodgers. Hey, incidentally, where'd they hide Colin Powell?

"Conan, what is good in life?"
"To crush your enemies. To see them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of the women."

I see you point. It fits the paradigm though.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok,... 1 question here.

The good stuff that Alien Bush said....

Can he and his people pull it off? Or will it be just more smoke blown up our collective arses? I mean, seriously, does he have the ability to get at least some of that stuff done?

 

[qizmoduis]

Ok,... 1 question here.

The good stuff that Alien Bush said....

Can he and his people pull it off? Or will it be just more smoke blown up our collective arses? I mean, seriously, does he have the ability to get at least some of that stuff done?

Of course he won't pull it off. It's the same smoke he blew in the last election. "Compassionate conservatism" is an oxymoron - emphasis on moron.

 

[Flatlander]

I don't think that bashing either of the candidates is an effective method of debate. Is it not more constructive to point out the good points of the candidate you support? Let's try to maintain an air of decorum here.:asian:

 

[michaeledward]

Ok,... 1 question here.

The good stuff that Alien Bush said....

Can he and his people pull it off? Or will it be just more smoke blown up our collective arses? I mean, seriously, does he have the ability to get at least some of that stuff done?

Alien Bush ... I like that.

Could he pull it off four years ago, when he had a budget surplus, I do not doubt it. The fact that there is no money in the piggy bank means that any of these items will not be able to be accomplished. Further, while we have already maxxed out our National Credit Card, Bush wants to burn through more credit (expanding military spending, eliminating tax cut phase-outs). Add to that, and his further push to eliminate taxes on capital, and I think we end up with a self-destructive plan.

For instance, allowing younger workers to have control over some of their social security withholding (last night he called it a tax?), would mean that the government must borrow to meet the obligations of the current program while that revenue stream is drained away. That spells trouble.

If the Federal Reserve Board can keep long term interest rates where they are, the policies would have a better chance of succeeding (7 million new mortgages). But, the Federal Deficit is going to work against the low interest numbers. As those interest rates come up, the goal of 7 million new home-owners, I think becomes a challenge. (Of course, I do not know what the projections of additional home-owners numbers would be without this plan ... hell maybe it would be 10 million)

If we were to drop our military spending to something other than a War Footing, all of these programs could be met, and more. But as long as we are spending 380,000,000,000.00 on the military, No Way. (yes ... that is more than 1 BILLION DOLLARS A DAY on the military).

 

[Brother John]

Oh. "Compassionate conservative," is one of those terms that came into being as a counter to the other side's successful rhetoric?

This would make it a lot like, "politically correct," which came into being as a left-wing ironic remark about holier-than-thou left wingers, and was adopted by the creepy likes of Rush Limbaugh.

Actually, no. "Compassionate conservative," is pretty much a Republican, vat-grown piece of rhetoric, which has been employed to suggest that the likes of our current Prez aren't pretty much ruthless, elitist oligarchs who honestly feel themselves heaven-sent to lead we poor sheep, and who honestly feel that it is wrong to spare the rod or help sinners.

C'mon Robertson, stop holding back...
how do you reaaaaallly feel about conservatives & Republicans???



Your brother
John