The Perfect Rules?

[Tez3]

The OP specifically said UFC and Bellator. And yes I've heard of Adrian Pang, I have a friend who fights out in Malaysia and Singapore ( five times on FC), Pang was on the same card as Irina Mazepa a Russian fighter who was fighting a local girl, I keep tabs on female fighters all around the world.

 

[KangTsai]

So nobody knows one FC. which is the second biggest mma competition in the world you American centric bastards.

And why nobody knows who Adrian Pang is.

Otherwise there is plenty of different MMA for people who want different things out of it. Ranging from Head gear and no GNP to the head on the deck. To rio heros style no gloves. To even team matches and obsticle course matches.

So there is a MMA rule set for almost everybody.

Is that a real organised HEMA match? Rules for that would be certainly interesting.

 

[Transk53]

• No kicking grounded targets on the head - One of my friend's son was killed this way.
• No down elbows - I was almost killed this way.
  
• No striking the back of head - IMO, the back of the head is the weakest spot in human body.

When your opponent tries to use "jump guard" or "gull guard" to drag you down, a sharp straight elbow drop on his throat (or on his heart) can kill him right there.

I'm surprise that the "knee drop" is not in this list.

When you downward elbow, what contact area?

 

[Juany118]

I do have to agree the gloves have to go. Yes I get that the lack of gloves before meant more blood and that was seen as a hinderances to MMA's expansion. It also makes for the "big hits" people tend to like and likely has sped up the pace of the fights overall. That said there are now multiple studies showing that this is also leading to higher incidence of head trauma and concussions. Heck some fighters are beginning to cut back on their sparring in order to minimize the concussion risk.

 

[drop bear]

Is that a real organised HEMA match? Rules for that would be certainly interesting.

Yeah. Gaining ground slowly. The advantage is you can put those sort of fights on an undercard. So they can get exposure without needing 13 odd hema fighters for a show and a room full of dudes who are willing to pay to watch.

As far as the rules. No idea.

 

[drop bear]

I do have to agree the gloves have to go. Yes I get that the lack of gloves before meant more blood and that was seen as a hinderances to MMA's expansion. It also makes for the "big hits" people tend to like and likely has sped up the pace of the fights overall. That said there are now multiple studies showing that this is also leading to higher incidence of head trauma and concussions. Heck some fighters are beginning to cut back on their sparring in order to minimize the concussion risk.

Rio heros.

And modern bare knuckle is pretty pacey. And big hitty.

 

[Juany118]

Rio heros.

And modern bare knuckle is pretty pacey. And big hitty.

Bareknuckled boxing isn't MMA. If you look at the stats, striking to the head/face soared with the introduction of the gloves. Also it's not as wild haymaker big bitty as MMA. Now of course you could ignore all the stuff that https://www.google.com/amp/amp.www....re-knuckle-boxing?client=ms-android-sprint-us

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mmal...loves-in-mma/amp/?client=ms-android-sprint-us

https://www.google.com/amp/s/combat...rate-tenfold/amp/?client=ms-android-sprint-us

Science Looks At Head and Neck Injury Risk in MMA and Boxing

Is just the tip of the iceberg.

/Shrug

 

[Transk53]

The OP specifically said UFC and Bellator. And yes I've heard of Adrian Pang, I have a friend who fights out in Malaysia and Singapore ( five times on FC), Pang was on the same card as Irina Mazepa a Russian fighter who was fighting a local girl, I keep tabs on female fighters all around the world.

Any single

 

[Transk53]

Rio heros.

And modern bare knuckle is pretty pacey. And big hitty.

And you would know?

 

[drop bear]

And you would know?

Well yeah. You can see it. It is not in some secret den.

 

[drop bear]

Bareknuckled boxing isn't MMA. If you look at the stats, striking to the head/face soared with the introduction of the gloves. Also it's not as wild haymaker big bitty as MMA. Now of course you could ignore all the stuff that https://www.google.com/amp/amp.www....re-knuckle-boxing?client=ms-android-sprint-us

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mmal...loves-in-mma/amp/?client=ms-android-sprint-us

https://www.google.com/amp/s/combat...rate-tenfold/amp/?client=ms-android-sprint-us

Science Looks At Head and Neck Injury Risk in MMA and Boxing

Is just the tip of the iceberg.

/Shrug

Sorry kimbo slice says what?

And correlation does not mean causation.

Or mabye even when did the jits guys stop dominating with submissions?

 

[Transk53]

Well yeah. You can see it. It is not in some secret den.

True enough. Sorry for my loaded question, just had to ask

 

[Transk53]

Sorry kimbo slice says what?

And correlation does not mean causation.

Or mabye even when did the jits guys stop dominating with submissions?

I Ike this, look forward to the responses.

 

[drop bear]

I Ike this, look forward to the responses.

I mean ok more finishes by face punching since gloves.

Maby becase the competition was no longer dominated by submission experts. Because at some point people learned how to defend a submission.

"During this early part of the organization, the UFC would showcase a bevy of different styles and fighters. Aside from the aforementioned Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, and Patrick Smith, the competitions also featured competitors such as Hall of Famer Dan Severn, Marco Ruas, Gary Goodridge, Don Frye, Kimo Leopoldo, Oleg Taktarov, and Tank Abbott. Although the first events were dominated by jiu-jitsu, other fighting styles became successful: first wrestling, then ground and pound, kickboxing, boxing, and dirty boxing, which eventually melded into modern mixed martial arts."

"As the UFC's rules started to evolve, so too did its field of competitors. Notable UFC fighters to emerge in this era include Hall of Famers Mark Coleman, Randy Couture, Pat Miletich, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, and Tito Ortiz, as well as notables Vitor Belfort, Mark Kerr, Pedro Rizzo, Murilo Bustamante, Frank Shamrock, Mikey Burnett, Jeremy Horn, Pete Williams, Jens Pulver, Evan Tanner, Andrei Arlovski, and Wanderlei Silva, among others."

Ultimate Fighting Championship - Wikipedia

 

[Transk53]

I mean ok more finishes by face punching since gloves.

Maby becase the competition was no linger dominated by submission experts. Because at some point people learned how to defend a submission.

"During this early part of the organization, the UFC would showcase a bevy of different styles and fighters. Aside from the aforementioned Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, and Patrick Smith, the competitions also featured competitors such as Hall of Famer Dan Severn, Marco Ruas, Gary Goodridge, Don Frye, Kimo Leopoldo, Oleg Taktarov, and Tank Abbott. Although the first events were dominated by jiu-jitsu, other fighting styles became successful: first wrestling, then ground and pound, kickboxing, boxing, and dirty boxing, which eventually melded into modern mixed martial arts."

"As the UFC's rules started to evolve, so too did its field of competitors. Notable UFC fighters to emerge in this era include Hall of Famers Mark Coleman, Randy Couture, Pat Miletich, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, and Tito Ortiz, as well as notables Vitor Belfort, Mark Kerr, Pedro Rizzo, Murilo Bustamante, Frank Shamrock, Mikey Burnett, Jeremy Horn, Pete Williams, Jens Pulver, Evan Tanner, Andrei Arlovski, and Wanderlei Silva, among others."

Ultimate Fighting Championship - Wikipedia

A striker can always strike, probably dirty though.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When you downward elbow, what contact area?

 

[Juany118]

Sorry kimbo slice says what?

And correlation does not mean causation.

Or mabye even when did the jits guys stop dominating with submissions?

Umm, there is enough medical and biomechanical data out there that shows it is causation. It is a fact that gloves allow people to hit harder with less chance of injury to the hand, as well as less superficial injuryHe to the head/face being struck. It is a fact that since the gloves were introduced the number of KO's and TKO's from striking has gone up. It is also a fact that the gloves do not actually reduce the incident of TMA/concussions and with the increase of KO's TKOs the incidence of TMA rises in relation to the pre-glove era. A KO is actually a symptom of TMA. There is also supporting data that the incidence of death in modern boxing is higher than the bare knuckle era.

Now should we actually care about these facts? Does it matter, is it better or worse than other sports with hla high incidence of head trauma? That is a different debate entirely, but the data is there. And the consistency of the results, first in boxing and then in MMA gives a much stronger case to the argument of causation than correlation. If we didn't have what amounts to over a century of data as it relates to the impact of gloves, on both the striker and target, maybe you would have a case for correlation over causation.

The argument surrounding the facts however kinda reminds me of the NFL denials years ago but I get why the denials are there. Many found pre-glove MMA boring because of the bias towards grappling and long fights etc. Also, forget about the barbaric reputation of the pre glove time period, bare knuckle boxing is an illegal sport in many places. So from a business perspective doing away with gloves would likely hurt the sport.

 

[drop bear]

Umm, there is enough medical and biomechanical data out there that shows it is causation. It is a fact that gloves allow people to hit harder with less chance of injury to the hand, as well as less superficial injuryHe to the head/face being struck. It is a fact that since the gloves were introduced the number of KO's and TKO's from striking has gone up. It is also a fact that the gloves do not actually reduce the incident of TMA/concussions and with the increase of KO's TKOs the incidence of TMA rises in relation to the pre-glove era. A KO is actually a symptom of TMA. There is also supporting data that the incidence of death in modern boxing is higher than the bare knuckle era.

Now should we actually care about these facts? Does it matter, is it better or worse than other sports with hla high incidence of head trauma? That is a different debate entirely, but the data is there. And the consistency of the results, first in boxing and then in MMA gives a much stronger case to the argument of causation than correlation. If we didn't have what amounts to over a century of data as it relates to the impact of gloves, on both the striker and target, maybe you would have a case for correlation over causation.

The argument surrounding the facts however kinda reminds me of the NFL denials years ago but I get why the denials are there. Many found pre-glove MMA boring because of the bias towards grappling and long fights etc. Also, forget about the barbaric reputation of the pre glove time period, bare knuckle boxing is an illegal sport in many places. So from a business perspective doing away with gloves would likely hurt the sport.

Your facts are kind of in question. Saying facts doesn't make them facts.

Looking at the links of these "Facts" It is not anywhere near as cut and dries as you are pretending them to be.

Mabye if a person who understands the biomecanics of striking came along and started saying the science is decided. I might be more easily convinced.

As it is I think it is more the conclusion you want it to be. Rather than what is.

Personally I think the ten count and the crappy health rules regarding boxers are a bigger contributing factor to head trauma than gloves

 

[Tez3]

Any single

Quite a few lol, not everyone appreciates fighting women!

 

[Juany118]

Quite a few lol, not everyone appreciates fighting women!

The only women I treat as equals are those willing to go toe to toe with me. Though, saddly, it's been everything but MA thus far. Even my Wife, who shares my career, doesnt share my MA passion. Win some lose some I suppose because all the other boxes are ticked