The "perfect" art....

[CNida]

Springdale, in the NW Arkansas area.

My department doesn't have a use of Force policy. My department is a private security company (Securitas), and is just in it for the buck. There is next to no training involved (couple of hours when it should be at least 80), but I would go on and on about why private security companies suck and get nowhere.

Verbal Judo? Never heard of it. Ironically, talking to people is our first line of defense and 90% of the time I can deter violence. It was a trait you learned quickly. However, I chiefly am required to assist nurses with patients that suffer from altered mental statuses, and it's next to impossible to reason with someone who can't even SEE reason. What training we do have is in a system called TACT, or therapeutic alternatives in crisis training. It's good for trying deescalate situations but the physical aspect is only good for dealing with elderly dementia patients who you can't even hold firmly by the arm without bruising.

It didn't help me at all when I was asked to restrain the psychiatric patient who stuck his finger into my left eye socket while he tried to tear my skull apart at the jaw. Not meant to exaggerate but that's what I have to deal with. The nurses are weak, fragile, frail, or self entitled and for one way or another can't be expected to help restrain their patient.

Around me there isn't much. Couple of MMA gyms which I do love but am not looking for the competition heavy environment. There is a Kenpo 5.0 school but it's questionable since the guy had a falling out with Jeff Speakman and has flat out confessed that his school isn't officially backed by Jeff and that it is not taught with the same principals. So, yeah, I am not interested in going to a gym/dojo that only cares about my money.

There is a few Krav Maga schools but I generally think Krav Maga is a bit too forceful for what I do. Obviously there is an assortment of TKD and Karate outlets. Even a Mong Su Dom Tai academy, though a lot of people outside the area haven't even heard of it. No BJJ or Judo schools, otherwise I'd probably be doing Judo.
One or two Aikido schools. And there is a guy offering to train Kali and eskrima in his garage for a less than modest fee. I worry about that though.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

 

[Mon Mon]

Well i can tell you when it comes to the mentally ill you must be very careful i have a friend who is a PT if you use too much physical force you can not only be fired but also be criminally charged.

 

[RTKDCMB]

When I say perfect, I of course mean something that is perfect FOR ME.

If you are asking what is the perfect art for you, only you can answer that, everyone else can only offer suggestions, usually it is the art they practice or something they would do if they were not already doing something else.

 

[SENC-33]

I am a Systema convert after 3 decades of different arts and it has lifted my self defense and combatives training to new levels. Some say Systema is easier to get a feel for if you have a background and experience in other styles and to some extent I agree BUT I also feel like Systema can be excellent for newcomers because there is nothing to "undo" so to speak. The transition was natural to me......

If you can't find a Systema gym in your area you will enjoy Krav Maga or Silat as well. IMO any combative or pure self defense instruction is best for you because they cut to the chase and don't monkey around.

My personal style is a mixture of Systema and Silat that I have built upon a base that has included Kyusho and Muay Thai from my early days

 

[K-man]

Around me there isn't much. Couple of MMA gyms which I do love but am not looking for the competition heavy environment. There is a Kenpo 5.0 school but it's questionable since the guy had a falling out with Jeff Speakman and has flat out confessed that his school isn't officially backed by Jeff and that it is not taught with the same principals. So, yeah, I am not interested in going to a gym/dojo that only cares about my money.

There is a few Krav Maga schools but I generally think Krav Maga is a bit too forceful for what I do. Obviously there is an assortment of TKD and Karate outlets. Even a Mong Su Dom Tai academy, though a lot of people outside the area haven't even heard of it. No BJJ or Judo schools, otherwise I'd probably be doing Judo.
One or two Aikido schools. And there is a guy offering to train Kali and eskrima in his garage for a less than modest fee. I worry about that though.

Having seen the 'menu' my first choice for what you are looking for is the Aikido but with a proviso. I would talk with the teacher letting him/her know what you need to achieve in your training and then respectfully ask how he would deal with the type of situation you are likely to encounter.

Like most schools there are teachers of varying ability. You are a big guy so the teacher should be able to demonstrate controlling techniques on you that fall within the law and will not stress limbs etc. if he can't do that, with you resisting, go to the next school and so on.

(FWIW, I am qualified to teach KRAV and if you were to go down that road you would require specialised training as it really is a style that uses unbridled aggression to devastate an attacker, not control him.)
:asian:

 

[K-man]

I am a Systema convert after 3 decades of different arts and it has lifted my self defense and combatives training to new levels. Some say Systema is easier to get a feel for if you have a background and experience in other styles and to some extent I agree BUT I also feel like Systema can be excellent for newcomers because there is nothing to "undo" so to speak. The transition was natural to me......

If you can't find a Systema gym in your area you will enjoy Krav Maga or Silat as well. IMO any combative or pure self defense instruction is best for you because they cut to the chase and don't monkey around.

My personal style is a mixture of Systema and Silat that I have built upon a base that has included Kyusho and Muay Thai from my early days

This is just to make you green with envy!
I spent the weekend training with Alex and have another session tomorrow night!

 

[CNida]

If you are asking what is the perfect art for you, only you can answer that, everyone else can only offer suggestions, usually it is the art they practice or something they would do if they were not already doing something else.

Thats all I was asking for, was recommendations that might fit my needs. I know noone knows what will be perfect for me. I just needed a place to start.

I am a Systema convert after 3 decades of different arts and it has lifted my self defense and combatives training to new levels. Some say Systema is easier to get a feel for if you have a background and experience in other styles and to some extent I agree BUT I also feel like Systema can be excellent for newcomers because there is nothing to "undo" so to speak. The transition was natural to me......

If you can't find a Systema gym in your area you will enjoy Krav Maga or Silat as well. IMO any combative or pure self defense instruction is best for you because they cut to the chase and don't monkey around.

My personal style is a mixture of Systema and Silat that I have built upon a base that has included Kyusho and Muay Thai from my early days

I haven't actually witnessed anyone train Systema in person, but from what I am reading and the Youtube videos it is something that I am liking more and more.

My situation is somewhat complicated but it is what it is. Systema looks like it has some very non-violent looking but very effective defensive techniques.

In a typical scenario, as hospital security I am asked to restrain psychotic individuals for one reason or another. I have been in multiple situations where a lack of training really was my deficit. I do have semi-formal training in BJJ/MMA under a former professional fighter in Korea by the name of Henry Jung. I also trained some MMA in a gym around here but I truly feel that if I were to try and apply something I know on a patient, I would get in severe trouble simply because a nurse might think it looks excessive.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

 

[SENC-33]

This is just to make you green with envy!
I spent the weekend training with Alex and have another session tomorrow night!

Alex is top notch! And he hits extremely hard......He also has a great sense of humor

 

[SENC-33]

Thats all I was asking for, was recommendations that might fit my needs. I know noone knows what will be perfect for me. I just needed a place to start.



I haven't actually witnessed anyone train Systema in person, but from what I am reading and the Youtube videos it is something that I am liking more and more.

My situation is somewhat complicated but it is what it is. Systema looks like it has some very non-violent looking but very effective defensive techniques.

In a typical scenario, as hospital security I am asked to restrain psychotic individuals for one reason or another. I have been in multiple situations where a lack of training really was my deficit. I do have semi-formal training in BJJ/MMA under a former professional fighter in Korea by the name of Henry Jung. I also trained some MMA in a gym around here but I truly feel that if I were to try and apply something I know on a patient, I would get in severe trouble simply because a nurse might think it looks excessive.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

You can make any type of martial art or self defense violent or non violent. What Systema WILL infuse in you if you choose to study the full concept of it is humility. In your situation (restraint) you obviously have to be careful and the relaxation and tension controlled base of Systema is ideal.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I am wondering if there is a traditional art out there that has these things. Penny for your thoughts?

I know this isn't exactly what you were looking for, but the perfect art for you is the one you'll train in and spend time becoming proficient in. The other things you mentioned are all, to some extent, present in all martial arts. What matters most is finding something you feel compelled to train in (or, barring that, one you will show up at and apply yourself to because there will be days you simply don't feel like it).

Pax,

Chris

 

[Langenschwert]

I dunno. I would thing gool old fashioned wrestling would be ideal for you. If you know how to control another person's body, you end up much safer in the long run. You can then branch out into more self-defence oriented training.

-Mark

 

[Blindside]

In a typical scenario, as hospital security I am asked to restrain psychotic individuals for one reason or another. I have been in multiple situations where a lack of training really was my deficit. I do have semi-formal training in BJJ/MMA under a former professional fighter in Korea by the name of Henry Jung. I also trained some MMA in a gym around here but I truly feel that if I were to try and apply something I know on a patient, I would get in severe trouble simply because a nurse might think it looks excessive.

One of my students is the lone male nurse in a psych hospital, he is frequently (t)asked to do exactly the same types of control situations that you run into. The art I teach (Pekiti Tirsia Kali) on first blush is not a great fit for his needs, he doesn't find much application for dueling with a machete in his day to day. However, we also work on lots of arm controls (need to control that weapon arm), jointlocks, and takedowns, and he winds up applying those regularly. I'm not saying you need to study Kali, but I think you will find that many arts will have those sorts of things in their curriculum, even if it isn't the most obvious thing. The trick is finding an instructor who can teach a practical version of it to you, and one that will fit under the restrictions you operate in.

 

[Fritz]

Research the arts of course, but pay good attention to your teacher- or potential teacher. As long as you study under them, THEY are the representation of the art, and you will be spending a TON of time with them. Make sure they are teaching what you want to learn, and make sure you are willing to listen and learn from them.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

I would talk with the teacher letting him/her know what you need to achieve in your training and then respectfully ask how he would deal with the type of situation you are likely to encounter.:asian:

The above advice is right on the money. Who knows, maybe one of these teachers has experience in your type of needs.

 

[Langenschwert]

...he doesn't find much application for dueling with a machete in his day to day.

Am I the only one who finds that a little sad?

-Mark

 

[K-man]

Am I the only one who finds that a little sad?

-Mark

Probably ... but keep taking the tablets anyway.

 

[CK1980]

As a law enforcement professional myself, I feel confident I can help you out some... You would want to study some type of art that teaches stick techniques (weapon)- like Kali. The reason is very practical... I am assuming you carry some type of baton (ASP, #9 straight, etc.) therefore, any type of baton like weapon techniques are going to enhance your ability.

Keep in mind that because of the duty gear you use, you do not necessarily want to end up on the ground, but you should still know how to defend yourself if you do end up there... Not to stay and fight, but to get back on your feet as quickly as possible... So, any type of art that teaches you how to stand up "in base" would be good. Standard Karate, JKD, Gojo Shorei, and Krav Maga all teach that technique.

You would also want to study something that teaches a plethora of trapping and holding techniques... This is probably easier obtained through defensive tactics seminars than through a martial arts school, but having a foundation in martial arts will definitely make those courses easier.

I know its kind of vague to list a bunch of different styles as suggestions, but those are the most applicable in my opinion- given your qualifier of relating to your job/lifestyle choices.

 

[CNida]

As a law enforcement professional myself, I feel confident I can help you out some... You would want to study some type of art that teaches stick techniques (weapon)- like Kali. The reason is very practical... I am assuming you carry some type of baton (ASP, #9 straight, etc.) therefore, any type of baton like weapon techniques are going to enhance your ability.

Keep in mind that because of the duty gear you use, you do not necessarily want to end up on the ground, but you should still know how to defend yourself if you do end up there... Not to stay and fight, but to get back on your feet as quickly as possible... So, any type of art that teaches you how to stand up "in base" would be good. Standard Karate, JKD, Gojo Shorei, and Krav Maga all teach that technique.

You would also want to study something that teaches a plethora of trapping and holding techniques... This is probably easier obtained through defensive tactics seminars than through a martial arts school, but having a foundation in martial arts will definitely make those courses easier.

I know its kind of vague to list a bunch of different styles as suggestions, but those are the most applicable in my opinion- given your qualifier of relating to your job/lifestyle choices.

Sadly, the only things we are given to use are a pager and a radio. No weapons. And given that my job is provide to me through a third party company ( Securitas ), I am not surprised. I have a military background, and my supervisor has nearly 20 years of hospital security experience. That said, they usually hire a bunch of 18 year olds who are either to afraid to do their job or are all too excited to get to put their hands on someone, which can be a bad mindset when it comes to the use of batons or tazers or any sort of lethal/nonlethal weapon.

I am all for learning techniques that keep the fight upright and techniques to get the fight off the ground. I know enough about fighting on the ground to defend myself, at least against an untrained assailant.


____________________________

"A man who has attained mastery of an art reveals it in his every action." - Anonymous

 

[Langenschwert]

Probably ... but keep taking the tablets anyway.

The doctor say once I'm up to 650 watts I'll be feeling much better.

-Mark

 

[K-man]

The doctor say once I'm up to 650 watts I'll be feeling much better.

-Mark

Now that's a shocking admission.