The misconception of sparring.

[Mallic]

A lot of people are saying that sparring is bad because it causes permanent brain damage,but wouldn't it be a simple fix to...oh I don't know, stop trying to punch people in the head?

Like looking back at Victorian boxing, they had goofy stances sure but they were made that way because their fighting style was focused on body shots rather then trying to punch people in the face.

Wouldnt it makes sense to just go back to that? Or is it just not violent enough for people?

 

[Fungus]

A lot of people are saying that sparring is bad because it causes permanent brain damage,but wouldn't it be a simple fix to...oh I don't know, stop trying to punch people in the head?

Like looking back at Victorian boxing, they had goofy stances sure but they were made that way because their fighting style was focused on body shots rather then trying to punch people in the face.

Wouldnt it makes sense to just go back to that? Or is it just not violent enough for people?

Thats is what kyokushin does. Full contact, but now hand or elbows to the head. But knees or kicks to head are allowed in competition, but such kept low power in friendly sparring. But all body attacks in principle at full power, or whatever your partner can accept and still come back next week. It can be violent enough, body shots at full power can break ribs so there is still room to go hard if you want and your partner agrees on the level.

 

[windwalker099]

Like looking back at Victorian boxing, they had goofy stances sure but they were made that way because their fighting style was focused on body shots rather then trying to punch people in the face.

Not because they didn't want to...

This is because bare-knuckle fighters would aim for the softer parts of their opponent’s body as a punch to the head could result in the fighter’s hands being broken or injured.

Queensbury rules. Initially, fighters would remove some of the glove’s stuffing to minimise the padding. Aside from this, though, the simple fact a fighter’s hands were padded meant the sport became more dangerous.

According to W. Russel Grey in his essay For Whom the Bell Tolled: The Decline of British Prize Fighting in the Victorian Era, boxing was “virtually legalized in Britain” when in “1901, the last year of Victoria, the [National Sporting Club] sponsored a bout that resulted in the death of a fighter… [and the] Club was found not guilty of manslaughter.”

 

[Mallic]

Not because they didn't want to...

Isn't that ironic though? The fact that making it so you didn't break your hands made it more dangerous.

 

[windwalker099]

Isn't that ironic though? The fact that making it so you didn't break your hands made it more dangerous.

Reading the history, think maybe they felt it was more dangerous getting knocked out,
then having ribs and other things broken..What we call boxing was quite different
back in the day....simple rule set,,,fight until, you can't.

The basic Roman cestus was made of hard leather straps, which enclosed and protected the fighter's lower arm and fist. The straps could be studded, or more extremely, spiked.[6] Caestūs were usually worn in pairs.

now that must have been a boxing glove

 

[drop bear]

Isn't that ironic though? The fact that making it so you didn't break your hands made it more dangerous.

And I don't think it is true.

We have modern bare knuckle.

I know people who fought bare knuckle NHB back in the day.

I have never heard of someone who has done bare knuckle say bare knuckle is safer.

My guess is that it was a marketing device from modern pugilist. Who wanted to justify their system without having to hit anyone.

Coaching from a reputable bare knuckle fighter.

 

[Gyakuto]

 

[drop bear]

Side note. Breaking your hand hitting their elbow going for that body shot is still a boxing injury that occurs. Even in gloves.

 

[MuayJitsu]

A lot of people are saying that sparring is bad because it causes permanent brain damage,but wouldn't it be a simple fix to...oh I don't know, stop trying to punch people in the head?

Like looking back at Victorian boxing, they had goofy stances sure but they were made that way because their fighting style was focused on body shots rather then trying to punch people in the face.

Wouldnt it makes sense to just go back to that? Or is it just not violent enough for people?

Sparring full contact for head shots is stupid plain and simple and people who still regularly do it this day and age are even more stupid. There’s no benefits for sparring like that. You want to work on your power hit a bag or the pads. A lot of the brain damage comes from sparring and it’s stupid. If you look at someone like Stephen Thompson he’s been fighting since he was a kid in kickboxing then mma and he’s 41 and doing okay brain health wise because he’s said on multiple he doesn’t spar with full head contact he says everyone in his club goes about 30% to the head and 50% to the body.

Sparring is very important but if you are leaving training with concussions that’s just wrong, yes accidents happen but if it’s a regular thing then it’s time to swap gyms

 

[Fungus]

My experience, also from what kyokushin karatekas that has previously trained regular boxing and kickboxing is that when you have a huge boxing glove you strike more carelessly, as your fist is like a blob.

In bare knuckle striking, you really have to pay more close attention to exaclty how your hand and wrist is oriented relative to the target, so that you do not hurt yourself, like hitting your thumb or hitting the smaller knuckles or your fingers. A huge boxing glod is more "forgiving" in that sense. So bare knuckel fighting is more precision. The best strikes are when you really focus the power into one or two knucklings digging into the target.

This is also a huge difference between kihon striks in the air, which are always just straigt out. But when you hit your oppoents, you have to adapt the strikes to the target, wether it is the collar bone, sternum or something else, the kihon steaight strikes does not work. The only place we learn this is in sparring, or at the heavy bag. Strike hard with the kihon forms and you quickly see it does not work well.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A lot of people are saying that sparring is bad because it causes permanent brain damage,but wouldn't it be a simple fix to...oh I don't know, stop trying to punch people in the head?

Like looking back at Victorian boxing, they had goofy stances sure but they were made that way because their fighting style was focused on body shots rather then trying to punch people in the face.

Wouldnt it makes sense to just go back to that? Or is it just not violent enough for people?

There are lots of issues with this

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A lot of people are saying that sparring is bad because it causes permanent brain damage,but wouldn't it be a simple fix to...oh I don't know, stop trying to punch people in the head?

Like looking back at Victorian boxing, they had goofy stances sure but they were made that way because their fighting style was focused on body shots rather then trying to punch people in the face.

Wouldnt it makes sense to just go back to that? Or is it just not violent enough for people?

To protect your head from punches should be treated as the highest priority of your MA training. It's not that hard to do if you use "long guard". You fight in your opponent's territory instead of to fight in your own territory.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sparring full contact for head shots is stupid

It's not a good idea to train full contact to the head in sparring. IMO, the no head contact sparring can build up bad habit.

You can still train full contact to the head. Just ask your opponent to throw 20 punches (full power) to your head, you then try to deal with these 20 punches. This way, you can remove fear from the head punch. The day you no longer are afraid of head punch, the day your MA confidence has been moved to the next level.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have my doubts about this as being why they fought in that stance. Other fighting systems seem to not have this type of concern about breaking the hand on the skull. I hear more about this being an issue for boxing but not for other martial arts.

This makes more sense to me

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's not a good idea to train full contact to the head in sparring. IMO, the no head contact sparring can build up bad habit.

You can still train full contact to the head. Just ask your opponent to throw 20 punches (full power) to your head, you then try to deal with these 20 punches. This way, you can remove fear from the head punch. The day you no longer are afraid of head punch, the day your MA confidence has been moved to the next level.

I've never used more than 50% power in sparring. There's just no need to. If someone knows how to drive power then the pain starts around 30% - 40% power. At that level most people begin to have a distaste for being hit. At 50% power most people will feel like it's a real fight.
0% - 50% power = Training
50% - 100% power = Real fight power

The key factor is one's ability to drive power. For my own training. Sparring is 0% - 30% power on a regular and then it only goes ups to 50% 2 or 3 times every 4 months.

My rule about punching the head is simple. If you can't stop my slow punches from reaching your head, then you won't be able to stop the faster ones.

 

[JowGaWolf]

In bare knuckle striking, you really have to pay more close attention to exaclty how your hand and wrist is oriented relative to the target, so that you do not hurt yourself, like hitting your thumb or hitting the smaller knuckles or your fingers. A huge boxing glod is more "forgiving" in that sense. So bare knuckel fighting is more precision.

This is my perspective as well for bare knuckle. I can't just swing my fist any way I want. Nor can I strike with any part of my fist. I use different parts of my fist to strike different parts of the skull and face.

If I try to hit the head as if I have gloves on then I'll break my hand.

 

[J. Pickard]

I dont think you need to stop hitting the head, just dont hit so hard. If you are punching so hard during sparring that you are getting brain damage then you are doing it wrong.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Other fighting systems seem to not have this type of concern about breaking the hand on the skull

Some train breaking boards or spending time pounding the makiwara. Proper fist formation and punch execution will keep your hand safe against normal human skulls. It should be noted that in most traditional Okinawan kata there are very few punches, especially in the Naha/shorei styles. This is in high contrast to the common emphasis on punching in dojo drills. There seems to be a disconnect there.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you can't stop my slow punches from reaching your head, then you won't be able to stop the faster ones.

I have tried the following test.

- I throw a punch at my opponent.
- My opponent tries to block it.
- Before my opponent's blocking arm can touch my punching arm, I pull my punch back (for just few inches). I then use the same arm to punch him through the other side of his blocking arm.

My test has proved that it's not that hard to set my opponent up. But if I fully commit on my punch 100%. This can be hard to do.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some train breaking boards or spending time pounding the makiwara. Proper fist formation and punch execution will keep your hand safe against normal human skulls. It should be noted that in most traditional Okinawan kata there are very few punches, especially in the Naha/shorei styles. This is in high contrast to the common emphasis on punching in dojo drills. There seems to be a disconnect there.

In kung fu there are tones of punching I would think there would be a healthy variety of punches. My guess is thst there are more punches that don't strike the head. In terms of mobility to evade a punch, the body is the easier target. for linear strikes.

If I remember correctly okinawan kata looks similar to kung fu to me.