The Legalization of Marijuana

[Rynocerous]

Ah, c'mon man... thats what Prescription Narcotics are for...

Cuz, ya know, they must be safer...

:rofl:


:barf: Yeah but those make me naucious, and makes me feel hungover in the morning, whereas weed does not. Oh, and by the way thanks for the laugh Mellissa.

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[Gray Phoenix]

The problem then is why do we all have to pay to pick up the pieces (i.e. social programs for drug rehab, medical expenses, etc.) for those people when their "doing what they want with their bodies" lands them in physical trouble??

Perhaps the solution isnt jail, but there should be some type of penalty when your "freedom" places a burden on the rest of society who isnt taking the drug....

Totally agreed. The only half way good reason for making drugs illegal is because the welfare state in which we live forces the monetary burden on the rest of us. We know the junky will never repay it so putting them further in debt is not an effective deterrent. The only thing left for a society to use is the criminal justice system.

If we were to legalize narcotics and either force the families/estate of the users to pay the bills or we limit the amount fo treatment given.

It sounds heartless, but so is robbing John Q. Citizen of his hard earned money to pay for someone elses habit.

 

[MissTwisties]

HardheadJarhead...a lot of what you said make sense. But you know, I have lived all young life, in a house with drugs and alcohol, and being my parents punching bag on a daily basis. I still suffer today consequences of all that non sense they made me endured...I have a big lack of self-confidence, I feel like I'm a nobody sometimes, and I'm an emotionnal person who cries for sad and happy things (cry when I watch a movie, etc.). It makes me sick to be so sensitive to things. I'm a hopeless romantic and dreamer, and I ended up with a husband who's not romantic at all and do not give me so much attention. Some days...I hate being who I am because I wish I could have been more. I have a lot of bad lucks still, and it doesn't help.

I ended up never using drugs, I drink only rarely when there is an occasion, I tell my kids every single day taht I love them and that I'm proud of them, something I NEVER heard from my parents when I was younger. That's why drugs is such a sensitive spot for me. I've seen way too many bad things in my past.

 

[psi_radar]

Totally agreed. The only half way good reason for making drugs illegal is because the welfare state in which we live forces the monetary burden on the rest of us. We know the junky will never repay it so putting them further in debt is not an effective deterrent. The only thing left for a society to use is the criminal justice system.

If we were to legalize narcotics and either force the families/estate of the users to pay the bills or we limit the amount fo treatment given.

It sounds heartless, but so is robbing John Q. Citizen of his hard earned money to pay for someone elses habit.

Jail ain't free.

 

[Gray Phoenix]

Jail ain't free.

True. The burden is on us and that aint fair. I'm all for legalization, and put the burden on those who use, not those who work.

 

[psi_radar]

True. The burden is on us and that aint fair. I'm all for legalization, and put the burden on those who use, not those who work.

I agree. Take the money currently used for the drug war including foreign payoffs, police, government agencies, prisons, plus add on sin taxes for the intoxicants and that should cover just about damn near anything. And to clarify, those who use and those who work are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Gray Phoenix]

And to clarify, those who use and those who work are not mutually exclusive.

True, but I am referring to people like myself, and many others here who work and dont use.

 

[kid]

Misstwisties in bold:

That's why drugs is such a sensitive spot for me. I've seen way too many bad things in my past.

I can relate to your pain seriously. I don't discuss it with people i don't know, so just trust me. We as our parents children have to learn from their mistakes. Here is where we hold differnt opinions. You think that the mistake was drugs themselves that caused the pain and suffering, i think that it is the abuse, or legal penalties that cause hardships.

Darksoul in bold:

he smoked pot on Halloween one year and went crazy for a few hours. Friends had to chase him down just to keep him from hurting himself.
Use in moderation. That problem would most likly not have happened if he read the warning lable that alcohol, tobacco, saunas, hot tubs, tellaphones, toasters, microwaves, and all that junk have. Wait its not legal yet; warning lables havent been printed.
this country isn't mature enough to make it legal.
Give your fellow citezens more credit than that. And whos to say we aren't mature enough? You, mom and dad, George Bush, Uncle Sam, Big Brother? Thats not what America is about comrade. I turned twenty one awhile ago and became a full fledged mature adult, i make my life decisions. Not anyone else named above thats my right. And i will Stand my ground cause thats what Larry Flint would do.

Mellissa426 in bold:

Come to think of it, I'd probably like her better if she stayed stoned.
OK, I change my mind. Make it legal.
do i detect some sarcasm? naw i think that if your dad is able to accept her as she is, and if you want to be part of his life you need to start accepting also. and stop doing this: we talk about my wicked witch of a step-mother who lives with my father in the Aloha state.
Potheads aren't dumb Just like your not dumb. I can tell when someone doesn't like me and i'm sure you can to. Now i don't know about you but im not the nicest person in the world to people that dislike me for what they assume.

Rynocerous in bold:

I say Kudos KID,it is better than people using it all the time.
Thanks Ryn i'm glad you understand.

and jarhead rocks

 

[kid]

True, but I am referring to people like myself, and many others here who work and dont use.

I work, go to school, and used. I don't anymore but i would like to know that i could if i wanted to and not be paranoid cause a law was being broken. i would rather have a serious conversation about mating rituals of butterflis or some useless info like that. Now thats funny.

 

[Gray Phoenix]

I work, go to school, and used. I don't anymore but i would like to know that i could if i wanted to and not be paranoid cause a law was being broken. i would rather have a serious conversation about mating rituals of butterflis or some useless info like that. Now thats funny.

I dont care if you use or not. It should be legal. If you wanna pump hot glue into your veins and follow up with Draino, I dont care.

Where I do get my panties in a bunch is when some junky ODs and gets taken to the county hospital where he gets $50k worth of treatment to save him. It would be nice to save him, but its his mistake, not mine and not John Q Citizen's. Whey should the public pay for it? I might even compromise a little. We save him once, but tattoo DNR on his chest and make him sign the forms after he "recovers".

Your rights end at my door.

 

[Flatlander]

Where I do get my panties in a bunch is when some junky ODs and gets taken to the county hospital where he gets $50k worth of treatment to save him.

Yes, that is an unnecesary burden on society. Fortunately, the instances of overdosing on marijuana are very, very rare. Certainly much less frequent than alcohol.

 

[Rynocerous]

Where I do get my panties in a bunch is when some junky ODs and gets taken to the county hospital where he gets $50k worth of treatment to save him. It would be nice to save him, but its his mistake, not mine and not John Q Citizen's. Whey should the public pay for it?

You ask a very legitimate questoin here Gray Phoenix. I am currently taking a sociolgy class in university and had many heated debates about topics like this. There a many things that seperate us from animals such as division of labour, sharing food, but the big one is caring for those in need of help. It is in our nature to assist humans in need of help. Be it detox, a heart transplant, a liver transplant, a cast, or whatever the case may be. How many people have needed a heart transplant, or surgery because their diet was so poor that it clogged an artery in their heart. How many people are on respitory machines because they smoked their whole life. How many people had a liver transplant because they were an alchoholic, or simply drank to much. These are going to be problems until the end of time, and to say "no you don't get help" is just not in our nature. Could anyone here on this forum honestly say that if they were qualified to help an OD victim they would stand by and let that person die because what the victim was doing is illegal. I sure hope not. I guess what I'm getting at is people make bad choices, and the rest of the human race is here to help out when times get rough. Now don't get me wrong, this isn't a reason to go out and snort coke, and eat eighteen cheese burgers a day. I'm just pointing out that we are helping these people now, and we will still help them if it is legalized.

Cheers,

Rynocerous

 

[Schtankybampo]

Ok, granted, but let's have the profits from the government-legalized sales of these substances pay for thier treatment.

Look, I'm not going to idly stand by and let someone die because what they have done was "illegal" Legality has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. What disheartens me is that we "save" the same people over and over and over. Legal or illegal, we're still going to have to save them. John Q. Junkie is going to shoot up; the only difference here is, does he do it in an alley or sitting at a streetside cafe'?

Having said that, no, the instances of hospitalization for abuse of MJ are slim, but don't you think that comfort with MJ leads to the experimentation of harder substances?


M

 

[Rynocerous]

Ok, granted, but let's have the profits from the government-legalized sales of these substances pay for thier treatment.

Look, I'm not going to idly stand by and let someone die because what they have done was "illegal" Legality has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. What disheartens me is that we "save" the same people over and over and over. Legal or illegal, we're still going to have to save them. John Q. Junkie is going to shoot up; the only difference here is, does he do it in an alley or sitting at a streetside cafe'?

Having said that, no, the instances of hospitalization for abuse of MJ are slim, but don't you think that comfort with MJ leads to the experimentation of harder substances?


M

Absolutly not...

Ryno

 

[Deuce]

Having said that, no, the instances of hospitalization for abuse of MJ are slim, but don't you think that comfort with MJ leads to the experimentation of harder substances?
M

That all depends on the person and their environment. I have smoked MJ for years (not any more though) and have never tried anything harder. I'm not addicted nor am I brain dead. I was smart about it though. I did my research before I tried it, and deemed it to be harmless, non-addictive and a potentially good time. I was right based on my personal experiences. I never tried harder drugs because I knew they were extremely addictive, deadly and could cause brain damage. But some people just don't think things though and cause themselves grief. It's not going to stop regardless of what laws are in enforcement.

Back to the weed leading to harder drugs. As was mentioned before in this thread, I think it's more about the people you hang out with, rather than the actual MJ that influences trying other drugs. Pot is currently illegal, and when you involve yourself in the uderground drug scene in order to obtain pot, you are exposed to many other illegal drugs and activities. If weed were legal, pot smokers would be less likely exposed to harder drugs, out of sight, out of mind, less chance of trying them.

There are many hard core potheads out there that may not be tempted by other drugs if mary-jane was legal. This could potentially save money on detox, hospital costs, drug related crimes, hard drug addictions, etc., not to mention the revenue of pot sales.

 

[shesulsa]

Seriously, now. Alcohol, legalized tobacco and cane sugar (even separately) kill more people that pot does. Pot just is not the gateway drug it has been made out to be. Many many many people smoke pot, but many fewer actually move on to harder substances and would probably have tried the harder substances whether or not they had tried pot first. I seem to remember a report (I'll have to try to dig it up) that showed hard drug addicts actually tried hard drugs first, not marijuana.

 

[kid]

Pot is currently illegal, and when you involve yourself in the uderground drug scene in order to obtain pot, you are exposed to many other illegal drugs and activities. If weed were legal, pot smokers would be less likely exposed to harder drugs, out of sight, out of mind, less chance of trying them.

QUOTE]

Well said deuce. Think about it like this financially if we take away pot from dealers that is a major percent of income for them. Less total income means less amount that can be invested back into their buissness. So other drugs will be harder to find.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Many many many people smoke pot, but many fewer actually move on to harder substances and would probably have tried the harder substances whether or not they had tried pot first. I seem to remember a report (I'll have to try to dig it up) that showed hard drug addicts actually tried hard drugs first, not marijuana.

Given that pot is the most widely used illicit drug, it is often the first one tried out...it is then no surprise that hard drug users then report dope was the first drug they tried.

Some other points: Kids start smoking cigarettes and drinking at earlier ages than when they experiment with marijuana. Perhaps THEY are the gateway drug? That's born out in the following quote from the 1999 Federal National Household Survey of Drug Abuse:

"The rate of past month illicit drug use among youths was higher among those that were currently using cigarettes or alcohol, compared with youths not using cigarettes or alcohol. In 1999, 5.6 percent of youth nonsmokers used illicit drugs, while among youths who used cigarettes, the rate of past month illicit drug use was 41.1 percent. The rate of illicit drug use was also associated with the level of alcohol use. Among youths who were heavy drinkers in 1999, 66.7 percent were also current illicit drug users. Among nondrinkers, only 5.5 percent were current illicit drug users."

The "Gateway Theory" is well debunked on the following site:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/gatewayt.htm


Regards,


Steve

 

[Schtankybampo]

Posted by Kid:

"Well said deuce. Think about it like this financially if we take away pot from dealers that is a major percent of income for them. Less total income means less amount that can be invested back into their buissness. So other drugs will be harder to find."

I'm afraid that's a somewhat faulty economic theory. At least with what I have noticed in terms of the inner-city problems. When you want to find pot, you find a pot dealer. If you're looking for Meth, you find the Meth Guy. Taking money out of the pockets of the MJ dealers by making it legal and freely availble at say, 7-11 is going to force them to find other areas of employment. Who here thinks they are going to go apply at Burger-King? Not me.

You can't bolster your defense of your own usage by hiding behind economic principles. Don't defend it. I've never used, never will. But I agree with the majority here that making it legal is coming, and we'd better decide how we feel about that. Use, don't use. It's your body, it's your choice.

Just please stop breathing smoke of ANY kind into my space, please.


M

 

[kid]

Those are the smaller dealers. I'm not talking about the guys way on top. more the guys in middle who move a couple puonds a month they deal in other stuff also. I used to know some of these guys. You would go and pick up some pot and be offered acid and coke and mushrooms. Im not talking personal amounts but amounts that your local dealer has. thats why if you want something go to him and he will ask his guy.