The Last Resort
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
Karate is not, to me, the 'last resort'. It is also not the 'first resort'. It is a valid choice out of a range of possible responses to a given situation. There are no slogans, no mottoes, and no t-shirt sayings that I have seen that provide a valid one-size-fits-all answer to such questions.
I train so that I will have more options should I need them. Having more choices rather than fewer is a good thing.
I train so that I will have more options should I need them. Having more choices rather than fewer is a good thing.
Well said.
Physical tactics of self defense are only one part of the puzzle, and there's no perfect rule as to when to employ them. They should be employed when they are the most appropriate tool to deal with a threat. Maybe you could have walked away, maybe you should ignore it... there's no easy rule.
Cirdan
Senior Master
I also think the "open the can as a last resort" is a way too defensive way to view karate. Observation, reading body language, distancing, positioning, being in a ready stance without a stance.. All these and more are things that are taught in karate and they can be of use way before a punch is thrown at you. Locking karate away in the can is a huge mistake.
And about the no first strike thing the true meaning of it is deatable. For instance if someone has stated their intention to attack you or is threatening you with a weapon, you are already under attack. It would be foolish to wait to be stabbed.
And about the no first strike thing the true meaning of it is deatable. For instance if someone has stated their intention to attack you or is threatening you with a weapon, you are already under attack. It would be foolish to wait to be stabbed.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
I don't think it is a 'last resort' but a lot depends on context.
If someone shoves me just to get past me (for whatever reason), just walking on may be the appropriate response. The threat is gone, and reacting is the higher risk option.
If someone shaves me to unbalance me and shows signs of attacking, then reacting is the safest option.
However, I do think it is important to teach kids that karate (or whatever) should not be the first response. The first response should be assessment and awareness. You don't want kids to punch first and then later on assess whether it was warranted or not. Kids get into enough arguments with each other that they should learn that fighting is only warranted only if there is a threat; not because they are angry.
If someone shoves me just to get past me (for whatever reason), just walking on may be the appropriate response. The threat is gone, and reacting is the higher risk option.
If someone shaves me to unbalance me and shows signs of attacking, then reacting is the safest option.
However, I do think it is important to teach kids that karate (or whatever) should not be the first response. The first response should be assessment and awareness. You don't want kids to punch first and then later on assess whether it was warranted or not. Kids get into enough arguments with each other that they should learn that fighting is only warranted only if there is a threat; not because they are angry.
Cirdan
Senior Master
We have a few rules for the kids which we recite from time to time. Similar to the tenets of TKD I guess but more specific. One of the rules is "do not attack people" When a new student is told this he will often ask "can I attack if I do not use Karate?" The awnser of course is NO, but I always laugh inside at the thought of Karate being something you can turn on and off like a light switch.
chinto
Senior Master
I would say rather better to not be there if trouble is brewing. BUT, If you find yourself in an altercation... then end it quickly and efficiently so you are not injured. that is what karate is for. SURVIVAL!!
remember.... IF YOU FIGHT YOU MAY DIE! so is fighting a last resort? Yes and NO. better to run if you can, but often that is not an option is it? so Survival is the only choice.
remember.... IF YOU FIGHT YOU MAY DIE! so is fighting a last resort? Yes and NO. better to run if you can, but often that is not an option is it? so Survival is the only choice.
I think the teen gave a good answer when she said karate is a "last resort". There are still many people that don't train that get a bit queasy upon hearing that someone else does martial arts.
But do I see it as a "last resort"? Someone has/had a quote in their sig that was something like "violence is not always the answer, but when it is, it is the only answer." I'm not to flex beer muscles or otherwise get in to avoidable altercations...but I can, and will, physically defend myself if I have to. I just hope I don't have to.
But do I see it as a "last resort"? Someone has/had a quote in their sig that was something like "violence is not always the answer, but when it is, it is the only answer." I'm not to flex beer muscles or otherwise get in to avoidable altercations...but I can, and will, physically defend myself if I have to. I just hope I don't have to.
I agree and disagree with the article. I agree, because yes, if possible, we should attempt to use other options, to defuse a situation. However, OTOH, I dont feel that we should be a punching bag for someone. If its getting or already has gotten to the point of being physical, then IMO, yes, use your art.
I agree with what Cirdan said in his 2nd post. IMO, if the attack is imminent, then waiting is foolish. If we can pre-empt something, I dont see why we shouldn't. Is that striking first? IMO, no.
I agree with what Cirdan said in his 2nd post. IMO, if the attack is imminent, then waiting is foolish. If we can pre-empt something, I dont see why we shouldn't. Is that striking first? IMO, no.
It is subjective depending upon a situation! There will be times when "the last resort" model would be harmful to the person utilizing it. Then there will be other times when a "preemptive strike" may be the only viable method. Then you have to think through the differences between civilians, LEO's and of course the military. So in her context as a teen reciting what her teacher's wanted to hear I am sure it was the right choice. However, out there in the real world it would depend on the situation!
Mark Jordan
Blue Belt
Last resort means Karate should be used as a defense, and not for violence or revenge ( a good judgment call).
Everyone who trains in karate has this dojo kun (a reminder of why we train):
The ultimate goal of karate is to seek perfection of character, endeavor to do your best, show respect and humility, control yourself at all times and keep your cool.
Everyone who trains in karate has this dojo kun (a reminder of why we train):
The ultimate goal of karate is to seek perfection of character, endeavor to do your best, show respect and humility, control yourself at all times and keep your cool.
Cirdan
Senior Master
If you punch someone to defend yourself, is that not violence?
Not every dojo has a dojo kun, nor does it reflect every karateka`s reason for training.
But if those are the ultimate goal, why not go to a church or temple instead where focus is on this kind of development? Why spend so much time punching and kicking and rolling around?
Ours is different:
I come to you with only karate, empty hands.
I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my honor, or my principles,
Should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong,
Then here are my weapons, my empty hands.
I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my honor, or my principles,
Should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong,
Then here are my weapons, my empty hands.
Nomad
Master Black Belt
Duh. Karate's a HECK of a lot more fun than those other options. :ultracool
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