The Karate "Chop" and other "underrated" technques?

[Bill Mattocks]

OK, here is an example of what I am talking about.

This is an example of an outside shuto strike. In my style of karate, I am taught to keep the elbow inside my frame rather than hung out to the side like this karateka does; however, I am not criticizing him; he clearly was trained differently and that's cool.

And he may not realize it, but he is actually delivering two shut strikes. His strike to the neck or head of the opponent with the palm up is one shuto strike. But look closely, the other hand is ALSO performing a shuto; in this case used for a block. This is an inside shuto and can redirect, block, or strike to a balance point. These can be used together (our basic exercise known as 'shuto uchi, shuto uchi' or 'chop low, chop high') or by themselves.

A basic open-hand middle-body block in Okinawan karate styles is in effect a shuto, although many do not see the shuto that is in the form. It's there, it's there.

Karate is full of 'chops'. Most people just don't recognize them when they see or do them.

 

[chrissyp]

It wasn't until I regularly started hitting a heavy bag that these "underrated" strikes had much purpose for me. I figured they were all stupid Hollywood/Kung Fu movie stuff.

Hitting a bag, a lot of these strikes were pretty weak for me. After a few sessions and actually trying to develop them, they became incredibly powerful. Not as strong as a solid cross or hook, but just about there.

These underrated strikes are all tools. Using the right tool for the job makes them effective. A properly thrown and trained shuto strike to the side of the neck or throat is going to do more damage than a punch to the same spot. Why? The hand shuto simply fits better there. Why would a fist to the side of the jaw he better? Because the fist fits there better.

Another one people disparage is the crescent kick. Same as above - the first few times I did them on a bag were very weak. Sticking with it, they became quite strong. Far more effective and strong for me than a head height roundhouse kick. My head height roundhouse sucks; I'm no where near flexible enough in that regard.

Moral of the story... Train the technique with intent and it'll be a realistic option. Train it only against the air or even focus mitts, and it'll remain a worthless technique. And learn to actually use it from someone who knows.

One of these days I'll work on making nukite (spear hand) a realistic option for me.

I agree with this so much! That's one part why I wrote it off, and like you I didn't get much power out of it first, until I started conditioning my hand and technique, and then I found it does work! I

I love what you said "Train the technique with intent"...that goes for STYLE!! I started my martial art career as mostly a Muay Thai guy, and when I went to Shotokan, people laughed and thought I was wasting my time... I learn, while Shotokan doesn't prep so much like Muay Thai, now a days at least....but if you train it hard, like muay thai, and learn to apply and use it hard sparring/living situations, you can make Shotokan, or any other style, work!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Naka Tatsuya Sensei has a very nice shuto strike. Anyone would do well to emulate his moves here. This is from the movie Kuro Obi (Black Belt) but the karate is real.

 

[Buka]

This isn't really an underrated technique, just one I've always practiced and sometimes used.

I like a two handed shove to the chest. Not as a push, although it works that way, but as a strike. I throw it really fast and very hard. It's a warning shot, really, a shot across the bow, it creates space, gives the opponent time to rethink what he's about to get into. And you measure as his momentum stops, sets you up wonderfully for your distance management should anything transpire after the shove. He has to stop going backwards before he can come forward. You could count one Mississippi if you wanted. That split second when he stops going backwards and starts to come forward (if he does) is like a moment in time. And there's always the option of following that shove, attached right to it - him going backwards, you going at him.

And while technically an assault, it can be argued in court a lot easier than a punch in the nose.

Like anything else, it has to be practiced. But it can be incredibly strong - well, heck, you're using both arms and your whole body.

Sometimes fighting is getting the other person not to fight. I like a good shove.

 

[frank raud]

Again, differences in training methods and application. In Combatives, I was taught to never deliver an edge of hand blow palm up. Why? In a system that has no defined blocks, keeping your hands in front of you is a priority. If you throw a right hand EOH coming from your left shoulder area, that is also your block, as it protects your upper torso. Moving your arm to the outside to deliver a palm up strike exposes your chest, and the system has no blocks. Does not make the outside shuto Bill shows in the video incorrect, but from a different philosophy.

 

[Paul_D]

And while technically an assault, it can be argued in court a lot easier than a punch in the nose.

It's only assault if you use it when there is no threat, otherwise it's a pre-emptive strike, which is legal for many of us.

 

[KangTsai]

As an opening gambit in hockey fighting, it is second nature to Canadians.

I personally want to see a roller skate/ice-skate boxing revolution. Would take hockey fights to a new level.

 

[KangTsai]

Chops are great. It's like a backfist, but with more pressure on the other end.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It wasn't until I regularly started hitting a heavy bag that these "underrated" strikes had much purpose for me. I figured they were all stupid Hollywood/Kung Fu movie stuff.

Hitting a bag, a lot of these strikes were pretty weak for me. After a few sessions and actually trying to develop them, they became incredibly powerful. Not as strong as a solid cross or hook, but just about there.

These underrated strikes are all tools. Using the right tool for the job makes them effective. A properly thrown and trained shuto strike to the side of the neck or throat is going to do more damage than a punch to the same spot. Why? The hand shuto simply fits better there. Why would a fist to the side of the jaw he better? Because the fist fits there better.

Another one people disparage is the crescent kick. Same as above - the first few times I did them on a bag were very weak. Sticking with it, they became quite strong. Far more effective and strong for me than a head height roundhouse kick. My head height roundhouse sucks; I'm no where near flexible enough in that regard.

Moral of the story... Train the technique with intent and it'll be a realistic option. Train it only against the air or even focus mitts, and it'll remain a worthless technique. And learn to actually use it from someone who knows.

One of these days I'll work on making nukite (spear hand) a realistic option for me.

Crescent kick is one I should work on with someone who actually uses it. The version I learned in NGA has never felt useful to me, and I've never seen someone in NGA actually put it to use in anything other than a drill for that particular kick.

 

[KangTsai]

Crescent kick is one I should work on with someone who actually uses it. The version I learned in NGA has never felt useful to me, and I've never seen someone in NGA actually put it to use in anything other than a drill for that particular kick.

The movement and muscle use of the roundhouse kick, or wheel kick, inherently is able to generate multiplicatively more force than a crescent kick. Because rather than a relatively isolated movement like the crescent kick, which draws most of its power from the hips, glute, groin and hamstring, the roundhouse uses a full body torque. You can still use it, sure. I think the axeing variation of the crescent is better.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Crescent kick is one I should work on with someone who actually uses it.

I use the outside crescent more for defense than for offense. When my opponent tries to sweep/trap my leg, I can use a waist high outside crescent kick to escape out of it.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Chops are great. It's like a backfist, but with more pressure on the other end.

There's another underutilized technique. Backfist. A true gift to martial artists. It's like answering the phone. "Hello? Phone's for you, Flicka!" Bam.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I use the outside crescent more for defense than for offense. When my opponent tries to sweep/trap my leg, I can use a waist high outside crescent kick to escape out of it.

We don't even have an outside crescent kick. Right now, I'm pretty sure my right hip would murder my entire family line if I tried one.

 

[Headhunter]

They are absolutely effective and not just from a combat point of view but also if something ever goes to court you using an open hand strike doesn't look as devastating as punching a guy in the face. A friend of mine is a lawyer and he does shotokan and he said that to me years ago using a chop or heel palm etc will look better in court than a punch or a kick

 

[Headhunter]

It wasn't until I regularly started hitting a heavy bag that these "underrated" strikes had much purpose for me. I figured they were all stupid Hollywood/Kung Fu movie stuff.

Hitting a bag, a lot of these strikes were pretty weak for me. After a few sessions and actually trying to develop them, they became incredibly powerful. Not as strong as a solid cross or hook, but just about there.

These underrated strikes are all tools. Using the right tool for the job makes them effective. A properly thrown and trained shuto strike to the side of the neck or throat is going to do more damage than a punch to the same spot. Why? The hand shuto simply fits better there. Why would a fist to the side of the jaw he better? Because the fist fits there better.

Another one people disparage is the crescent kick. Same as above - the first few times I did them on a bag were very weak. Sticking with it, they became quite strong. Far more effective and strong for me than a head height roundhouse kick. My head height roundhouse sucks; I'm no where near flexible enough in that regard.

Moral of the story... Train the technique with intent and it'll be a realistic option. Train it only against the air or even focus mitts, and it'll remain a worthless technique. And learn to actually use it from someone who knows.

One of these days I'll work on making nukite (spear hand) a realistic option for me.

For me I'm never going to do a crescent kick to the head or use it as an actual strike. I'd use it as a way to clear an arm out the way if they've got a weapon (e.g, a bottle, knife etc) use the kick to get it out the way then follow up. Never use it on a gun though. I say because I was training with a taekwondo guy once just in an informal way and I asked what he'd do against a gun so I held up my fingers representing a gun and he tried a crescent kick. I said okay then got a water pistol that looked a regular gun. I told him to do it again. He didn't know it was a water pistol and he tried it and I fired it before his kick was anywhere near me

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The inside crescent kick is a lovely thing for clearing out an incoming strike, for example a kick. That's about all I'd use it for. I have no outside crescent kick and can't think of a good reason to have one.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

We don't even have an outside crescent kick.

This clip uses the waist high outside crescent kick to escape:

- sweep.
- cut,
- hook.
- lift,
- ...

It's a very important defense skill used in wrestling. When your opponent attacks your leg, you just move that leg out of the way.

 

[Dirty Dog]

For me I'm never going to do a crescent kick to the head or use it as an actual strike. I'd use it as a way to clear an arm out the way if they've got a weapon (e.g, a bottle, knife etc) use the kick to get it out the way then follow up. Never use it on a gun though. I say because I was training with a taekwondo guy once just in an informal way and I asked what he'd do against a gun so I held up my fingers representing a gun and he tried a crescent kick. I said okay then got a water pistol that looked a regular gun. I told him to do it again. He didn't know it was a water pistol and he tried it and I fired it before his kick was anywhere near me

I'd like to see you use this effectively against any weapon. I don't think it's going to happen. Not very often, at any rate. Yes, it can be done. No, it's not exactly a high percentage move.

The inside crescent kick is a lovely thing for clearing out an incoming strike, for example a kick. That's about all I'd use it for. I have no outside crescent kick and can't think of a good reason to have one.

Performed correctly, a crescent kick (in either direction) is a strong, powerful strike. It's also, because of the way human hips work, one of the easiest kicks to use on a higher target. In a tournament setting, it's awfully easy to score with, especially when you bring it up behind your opponent and smack them in the back of the head. That's really tough to block. Done full power, such a strike can knock your opponent out, down, or at least disrupt their balance.

 

[DanT]

Chops are great, I use them in sparring, but i hit the head instead of the throat, and they're pretty powerful.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Performed correctly, a crescent kick (in either direction) is a strong, powerful strike. It's also, because of the way human hips work, one of the easiest kicks to use on a higher target. In a tournament setting, it's awfully easy to score with, especially when you bring it up behind your opponent and smack them in the back of the head. That's really tough to block. Done full power, such a strike can knock your opponent out, down, or at least disrupt their balance.

I'll just say that *I* can't kick that high effectively with a crescent kick. I am able to clear the top of a wavemaster at the lowest position; which is to say perhaps 5 feet high. That's about all she wrote. I do find the motion to be very powerful, fast, and as you said, difficult to block. That is why I confine it to interrupting kicks, forward steps, and other such motions towards me.

Seen in Wansu kata of Isshinryu. This karateka does not clearly demonstrate it but it is at :42 seconds in and again at :44.

The 'fumi komi' or crossover kick is another inside crescent kick, but applied to a different target with different focus. Many do not realize that it's a crescent kick, event those who perform it.