The Ground is my friend!!!

[Cryozombie]

I have CRUDDY Ukemi skills. I have lots of trouble falling and rolling. My Instructor has given me some pointers and tells me to practice.

Great. But I feel like I am missing something. I have been looking for resources to help me develop better Ukemi skills... I ran across this Van Donk Video:

ROLLING MADE EASY - Making the Ground your friend

Has anyone seen it, and will the techniques presented help me become a better faller, or is it the same old stuff, and I should continue practicing on my own???

 

[pknox]

Technopunk:

Are you more concerned about falling/rolling on a hard outside surface, or just in general? I can imagine a ninjutsu tape would be the place to go for the outside stuff, as most other schools that use falls and rolls practice on mats, but if you're just looking to improve your general skills, why not a judo or aikido tape? I mean, I can't imagine too many people who do more ukemi than judoka/aikidoka. Plus, they should be readily available. Mike Swain's judo tapes are just about everywhere, and as for Aikido, Donovan Waite just put out a two or three tape series on proper ukemi, which from what I hear, has been pretty well received. I know you can get the Swain stuff at Century (and prob a million other places), and I saw the Waite tapes advertised in Aikido Today Magazine's last issue.

 

[Jay Bell]

I can imagine a ninjutsu tape would be the place to go for the outside stuff, as most other schools that use falls and rolls practice on mats, but if you're just looking to improve your general skills, why not a judo or aikido tape?

I would *strongly* advise against this. Judo and Aikido ukemi skills are greatly different from those learned in Ninpo. Judo and Aikido ukemi are centered around tatami...and a very specific way of protecting the head from bouncing to cause injury.

Ninpo ukemi skills have more of a "soft and quiet" feel to them. More of a gentle rolling of a ball then in Judo and Aikido. As it pertains to Ninpo, Aikido and Judo ukemi skills would give one bad habits.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by Jay Bell
I would *strongly* advise against this. Judo and Aikido ukemi skills are greatly different from those learned in Ninpo. Judo and Aikido ukemi are centered around tatami...and a very specific way of protecting the head from bouncing to cause injury.

Ninpo ukemi skills have more of a "soft and quiet" feel to them. More of a gentle rolling of a ball then in Judo and Aikido. As it pertains to Ninpo, Aikido and Judo ukemi skills would give one bad habits.

Oh - OK. That's kind of why I was asking. I know ninpo people tend to practice outside more, but the mechanics of rolling inside are very different than as well, I guess -- especially compared to what a judoka would do. The way you're describing kind of sounds like aikido style ukemi though - how is the ninpo way different?

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by Jay Bell
As it pertains to Ninpo, Aikido and Judo ukemi skills would give one bad habits.

This is really good to know also, as I considered going to the local Aikido school to learn Ukemi skills.

 

[Lawman9]

Rolling appears easy but can be one of the toughest skills to learn. I recommend you start on a soft surface (carpet or mats) and go slow. Set up a routine each week of a certain amout of reps/days to practice. Example: on Mon/Wed/Thurs you do 3 sets of 10 rolls. Each week change the surface you are rolling on... I recommend going from carpets/mats to grass to dirt.....etc.
I have rolled in large stone gravel and on asphalt and barely got dirty, but it took alot of practice. As you practice you should completely concentrate on each individual roll.
At some point during your practice (it may be the first week or 6 months later) something will "click" and it will all make sense. At that point you won't have anymore problems with it..... as long as you keep practicing.

 

[Jay Bell]

how is the ninpo way different?

This is hard to explain through text, but I'll try. In Ninpo, rolling is create a very small ball and using momentum to roll onward. There is not "thump" in the ground. This can cause injury and whatnot. It's very smooth and quiet when done correctly.

 

[phlux]

I have a few comments on this,

First of all you Ukemi will improve just like all your other skills. The key to your having good ukemi skills is to be confident and aware of your movements.

I think I heard you mention that you are 6th kyu, relatively speaking your familiarity with your body will be very young. As you continue to train your confidence in your movements will grow and you will see that as you move and roll and fall you become much more mobile and supple. When you see a whitebelt learning to fall or roll, they are focused on every little position of each part of their body - so they cannot adjust to incoming variables - like walls or rocks for example. they are still jsut figuring out the mechanics of the action of rolling. as they grow in their understanding they will be comfortable with the standard roll - and will be then able to take on more tasks when executing them - like adjusting to things in the environment, in the dojo it would be being able to stop themselves in mid fall from hitting a pair working out nearby, or hitting a mirroor or wall. outside it will be being able to re route your trajectory in mid roll (or mid-air) as things come up - like more attackers or rocks and such.

if you are having difficulty rolling properly where your shoulderblades or other bones are hitting hard try the following:

find a hard surface to roll on - preferrably a hard wood floor. and practice your rolls as *slowly* as possible.

start each roll from as low to the ground as possible - after a while you should be able to do the rolls from lying on your stomach - but start by going down to your knees. then place your left plam on the floor - and do a standard right handed forward roll. - but curl up and try to do it as slowly as possible. it will hurt a bit as you see what parts of you are hitting the floor improperly - but you will not injure your self. you will find that you will do your rolls differently than on a mat - mats dont really show you improper alignment - when rolling on hard surfaces you need to curl up and get a lot more "round" than on a mat.

The thing that actually can be really good about knowing jujitsu, aikido etc.. is that many of their falls are rather dynamic. which means that they take hard falls from a greater verticle distance - when doing these you get really used to how to protect yourself very fast. Not that these falls are not taken in Bujinkan - it really depends on your instructors style - also remember that bujinkan techniques are generally designed to prevent ukemi in true practical application.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by phlux
I have a few comments on this,

I think I heard you mention that you are 6th kyu,

Actually, I am working on my 7th Kyu. That advice is very good, and I am actually working on my ukemi under the advice of my Instructor by lowering myself so far down my lead knee touches the ground before I roll...

I appreciate the tips!

 

[Mon Mon]

I would just follow your senseis advice and practice practice practice. Also use the pointers he has given you the only way to get good at Ukemi is just to practice. I remember how many times i brused up my shoulders practicing rolling. Try rolling outside on the grass because if you mess up it won't hurt as much on that as it dose on concrete.