The Disconnect

[Jonathan Randall]

I have noticed (from observation and personal experience), that mainstream TKD since the 1980's has, in many cases, a huge disconnect between forms and one-step practice and what folks actually use while sparring. True, the kicks ARE TKD, but the hand techniques often resemble sloppy boxing with a backfist thrown in here and there. The end result often is, IMHO, that many learn the movement for techniques in hyungs without learning or practicing any real fighting application to those techniques. I know all arts will have some, or even a lot, of change between formal techniques and actual sparring, but sport TKD seems to take this to an extreme. Comments? Agreements or disagreements? Solutions?

 

[FearlessFreep]

This is mostly because the rules of sparring, both what is allowed and what is scored, emphasize certain attacks that lead to people developing particular tactics and techniques at the expense of others

This is not really a problem until you you start looking at the two main forms of competition, sparring and forms, as goals in themselves. When you stop seeing sparring and forms as a part of a total taekwondo training and start seeng them as the goal of the training itself. The competition has become so big that the elements of the competition have bemore more important as the purpose for training, rather than the competition just being a demonstration of your total taekwond ability

 

[rmclain]

I've noticed the same thing, particularly in sport/competition TKD schools. Tournament competition is the emphasis and anything not seen as beneficial to "scoring another point," is discarded. This is probably one reason why forms are placed "on the back burner" as merely an obstacle to obtaining the next rank and void of any use in these schools. In the sport/tournament TKD schools, I absolutely agree that there are better ways to spend time in preparation for tournaments.

Since my school is not bound by any tournament rules or governing organization rules for sparring, students are free and encouraged to find applications from their forms into sparring. Forms are encyclopedias of techniques. As the chief instructor of my branch school, I practice forms from karate, chuan-fa, and Taekwondo daily and try to figure ways to apply the individual techniques into sparring to pass along to my students. This is for my own education and for the students' benefit. They are encouraged to find new applications for themselves and ask questions if they get stuck. It is easy to spot the student that applies this approach, as the variety of their techniques and combinations grows and their sparring gets better.

Solutions for the sport school? I don't think they need one. Their focus is in a direction that form techniques may not help them. But, I do feel badly for someone in these schools that obtains a black belt in TKD and they only know 5 kicks, a backfist, and think they are a great martial artist because of the trophies on their wall.

R. McLain

 

[terryl965]

Well just because your a tournament school does not mean you do not do poomse to the fullest. My school does alot of tournaments and everybody knows it but poomse is the basis to the Art, every single student understands the application to there poomse rank level or they cannot progress to the next level. I have had students come to our school for the tournaments and have to go back and teach there poomse for the sake that they just don't understand there movement and they are sloopywith no power. So i understand most people delima about TKD and the way it is precieved by so many, but look beyond those type of schools and hold true to the teachings of TKD and everything falls into place.
Terry

 

[Makalakumu]

This is something that I've thought long and hard about. In my 19 years of MA training, I've seen this again and again. There should not be a disconnect between forms, one steps and sparring. If there is, then that is bad teaching. See this thread...

I'm not trying to be rude or flame anyone, but from an educators point of view and from all of the research that is out there, there should be a clear line connecting all three or the students will not only have a hard time connecting to the material, they will not be able to apply the material as well as they could if there was no disconnect.

With that being said, we really need to think about the forms that we practice and we need to take the techniques out that are appropriate for sparring situations and then we need to drill them so they come out during sparring. This goal may require that one invent to forms, one steps, and perhaps new rules for sparring. However, in the end, I think one will be making a big step toward best practice in their martial arts teaching.

 

[jazkiljok]

This is something that I've thought long and hard about. In my 19 years of MA training, I've seen this again and again. There should not be a disconnect between forms, one steps and sparring. If there is, then that is bad teaching. See this thread...

I'm not trying to be rude or flame anyone, but from an educators point of view and from all of the research that is out there, there should be a clear line connecting all three or the students will not only have a hard time connecting to the material, they will not be able to apply the material as well as they could if there was no disconnect.

With that being said, we really need to think about the forms that we practice and we need to take the techniques out that are appropriate for sparring situations and then we need to drill them so they come out during sparring. This goal may require that one invent to forms, one steps, and perhaps new rules for sparring. However, in the end, I think one will be making a big step toward best practice in their martial arts teaching.

sparring and sports applications in almost all arts corrupts the true self defense nature of techniques. in tkd, the emphasis on kicking and kicking with flair and the simple fact that it was created AS A NATIONAL SPORT, makes the comments of "sloppy" striking and disconnects from forms etc, a moot point.

(ok, that should stir something up... )

 

[Zepp]

I have noticed (from observation and personal experience), that mainstream TKD since the 1980's has, in many cases, a huge disconnect between forms and one-step practice and what folks actually use while sparring.

Agreed. This is another reason why, since moving away from my old TKD class, I haven't wanted to bother enrolling in a such a "mainstream" school.

I don't know of a solution for this, except to teach TKD as the martial art it was meant to be, and hope that someday, the mainstream comes around.

sparring and sports applications in almost all arts corrupts the true self defense nature of techniques. in tkd, the emphasis on kicking and kicking with flair and the simple fact that it was created AS A NATIONAL SPORT, makes the comments of "sloppy" striking and disconnects from forms etc, a moot point.

(ok, that should stir something up... )

If you're looking for an argument over TKD's history, you should search this forum first. We've had this discussion dozens (if not hundreds) of times before, and many outsides sources have been given that document Tae Kwon Do's origins in the kwan system, as well as it's use by RoK police and military.

It might be correct to say that the Korean powers-that-be attempted to re-create TKD as a national sport. But since Han Hi Choi, Jhoon Rhee, Duk Sung Son, and others left Korea in the 1960's and began teaching independently of the KTF, Korea lost it's monopoly on TKD a long time ago.

 

[Kacey]

I think that it depends on the focus of your school, and how your instructors were taught. I come from an ITF-style school (rather than WTF), and I don't see, in my seniors, peers, or students, the concerns that are being listed here - but I have heard about them from people on boards such as this and from students who have visited (or formerly belonged to) other associations than the one I belong to. I have always been taught that tuls (patterns, forms, poomse, whatever you call them) are the basis for sparring - that people who are good at patterns are often (not always) good at sparring, but that people who concentrate on sparring are often not good at patterns, and without technical proficiency, you will fail at testing (if you're allowed to test at all). Still, depending on your school's focus, I can see where this problem could easily occur.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Well just because your a tournament school does not mean you do not do poomse to the fullest. My school does alot of tournaments and everybody knows it but poomse is the basis to the Art, every single student understands the application to there poomse rank level or they cannot progress to the next level. I have had students come to our school for the tournaments and have to go back and teach there poomse for the sake that they just don't understand there movement and they are sloopywith no power. So i understand most people delima about TKD and the way it is precieved by so many, but look beyond those type of schools and hold true to the teachings of TKD and everything falls into place.
Terry

My original post was not directed against schools like yours. I know, from your previous posts, that you teach more traditionally and do not have the "sport" disconnect I wrote about. Unfortunately, most TKD, IMO, though are not like yours and there is a great dichotomy between what is practiced in forms and what is actually utilized in self-defence and sparring.

BTW, my first TKD school did not have this "disconnect" - the head was a South Korean veteran of the Korean War and what we learned in forms and one-steps is what we used in both self-defence and sparring.