The deadly Handshake!!!

[Wing Woo Gar]

I always looked at the "from a handshake" moves more as a very beginner drill. We teach a standing arm bar from a handshake. But really, that is so we can focus on all the other parts of the arm bar.

Starting in the handshake grip, you can easily control the direction, go towards the pinky and away from the thumb. You can focus on which direction to aim the pinky at... you get different responses as you change the angle of the wrist with respect to the elbow. You can focus on separating the arm from the body, breaking the structure, taking the balance... all while using this grip.

Additionally, this grip helps the beginners remember to move slowly, while learning to feel what its like to apply the arm bar... this is important in developing control.

Yes, if you stop there, you have taught them an over reaction to an unlikely attack. But, a good instructor will then move on and show how to apply these fundamentals and details in more appropriate situations. Every one of the fundamentals and details practiced here can and should be applied also when doing an arm bar from guard or arm bar from mount, or arm bar from anywhere....

People these days forget that the grab my wrist attack, was designed to prevent you from getting your hand to your sword. It involved taking your balance, breaking your structure and preventing that hand from getting to your sword on the other hip... it also quickly led to a take down. But since we forgot the full attack, it has morphed into passively grabbing the wrist and waiting patiently. Thats on the instructors for not ever moving past that part and or teaching the real intent of the attack. People don't wear swords today, but they do carry knives and CCW. The same grab your wrist attack, can also be used to prevent you from getting to your modern weapon, and should still include breaking your structure, taking your balance and lead to putting you on the ground very quickly.

Grabbing at a gun draw sounds like dangerous advice. I carry, and I have never drawn my weapon in public. I wouldn’t unless my life or others lives were in direct and immediate danger. I practice drawing and shooting regularly, as I have for decades. I would consider someone reaching toward my weapon a distinct and immediate threat. Most people carry in condition one, this could go so wrong, so fast. I have to recommend against it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How bout this one... any defence against it? Anyone ever used it on dah streetz?

The recommended defense against this attack is the butt plug maneuver.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Grabbing at a gun draw sounds like dangerous advice. I carry, and I have never drawn my weapon in public. I wouldn’t unless my life or others lives were in direct and immediate danger. I practice drawing and shooting regularly, as I have for decades. I would consider someone reaching toward my weapon a distinct and immediate threat. Most people carry in condition one, this could go so wrong, so fast. I have to recommend against it.

If I understand what @wab25 wrote, it's not a grab for your weapon so much as a grab for your WRIST when YOU are reaching for your gun. If it is necessary to face someone who has a weapon, it's a good idea to control that weapon, or the hand/arm holding it. The sooner the better, in most cases. Grabbing the wrist before the draw is completed is certainly one way to do this. If I can keep your weapon in it's holster, it's not much of a threat to me. And if you're foolish enough (and able) to pull the trigger, it's more likely that you're going to shoot yourself.

 

[Buka]

Wow that is awesome! Sifu Woo and Sifu Gale both knew and respected him. I thought he was the most gracious teacher I ever met. Gentle and kind. Anyone who had a chance to train with him directly was lucky indeed. It was his small circle jiu jitsu that was my first introduction to martial arts about the same time I started learning to box.

You're in good company, bro, boxing was the first Martial Art Wally trained in.

 

[wab25]

If I understand what @wab25 wrote, it's not a grab for your weapon so much as a grab for your WRIST when YOU are reaching for your gun. If it is necessary to face someone who has a weapon, it's a good idea to control that weapon, or the hand/arm holding it. The sooner the better, in most cases. Grabbing the wrist before the draw is completed is certainly one way to do this. If I can keep your weapon in it's holster, it's not much of a threat to me. And if you're foolish enough (and able) to pull the trigger, it's more likely that you're going to shoot yourself.

Yes, this idea. My understanding of the original idea was that someone wanted to kill a samurai. If the samurai got his sword out, that became significantly harder. So they would ambush him with a surprise attack. The first attack was to grab the arm that would go for the sword, before the samurai knew he was being attacked. This grab was immediately followed by taking his balance, breaking his structure, and taking him down... all while the other attackers joined in.

Brought into modern times, if one were to attack a police officer, one might want to prevent the officers hand from ever getting to the gun. If you were going to attack someone who was carrying a weapon, you might want to prevent them from getting their hand near their weapon. As the officer or person carrying.... if you get surprised and caught off guard, thats where these escapes come in.

You are right, if you suspect that someone has a CCW and you grab their wrist, and stand there statically waiting to see what they do.... its a very ineffective technique. But, if you grab the wrist, break the balance and structure, hit them in the face, throw them on the ground, while not letting them get their weapon... things get easier. But also it becomes a lot to have a beginner practice on their first day. So working on the parts separately can be good. But, you do have to bring the parts back together.

The main failing I see with "shake my hand" or "grab my wrist" techniques, is that we take them so, extremely literally. We forget to make them real attacks. Its okay to train them statically to teach beginners and to study fine details. But that must be paired with resistance type training. At the end of the day.... its not the technique that is important, its the principles and ideas you ingrained in your body together with your experience of adapting those under the pressure of different attacks.

 

[J. Pickard]

You’re seeing drills for practicing movement and technique. Like many drills, this has an “easy” level where your partner is static. Done at a higher level, those grips become pulls, or are accompanied be a punch or such with the other hand.

No, I can accept those. I even train those, but they usually happen in a grip that is quite different from an actual handshake and only have a few similarities. I am specifically talking about a few videos I have seen where the instructor literally describes their technique as a defense against someone who is shaking your hand as a social greeting. Something like this

If someone is being a jerk in a situation where handshakes are expected you can usually just verbally say "ow" or "stop" and they will because it is a social setting and not a fight. If you are grappling and the hand is grabbed it is almost never palm to palm like an actual handshake. Its usually grabbing their fingers or using your fingers to grab their palm from the top or bottom but usually not straight in. This just seems super impractical and even overkill. If you are actually shaking someone's hand and it is too tight just tell them. If you don't know the person and they randomly came up to you for a handshake and you actually gave them your hand then shame on you! Even kids know you don't get close to strangers and you especially don't shake their hands.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No, I can accept those. I even train those, but they usually happen in a grip that is quite different from an actual handshake and only have a few similarities. I am specifically talking about a few videos I have seen where the instructor literally describes their technique as a defense against someone who is shaking your hand as a social greeting. Something like this

If someone is being a jerk in a situation where handshakes are expected you can usually just verbally say "ow" or "stop" and they will because it is a social setting and not a fight. If you are grappling and the hand is grabbed it is almost never palm to palm like an actual handshake. Its usually grabbing their fingers or using your fingers to grab their palm from the top or bottom but usually not straight in. This just seems super impractical and even overkill. If you are actually shaking someone's hand and it is too tight just tell them. If you don't know the person and they randomly came up to you for a handshake and you actually gave them your hand then shame on you! Even kids know you don't get close to strangers and you especially don't shake their hands.

I’d argue some of those instructors simply haven’t thought things through, and/or are not aware of the point of the “technique”. Yes, there are some edge cases where they may be used exactly as those folks describe, but that hardly seems worth the separate training time.

I can think of three categories of uses for something with an actual handshake grip:

1. A handshake used as I described earlier, where the actual attack comes from the other hand.

2. You use a handshake to disguise your entry.

3. While grappling, one of you misses a wrist grip, and ends up hand-to-hand.

#2 might arguably be worth some separate training for some folks. Otherwise, this only makes sense to me as part of a larger curriculum, where the variation opens a space to stretch the principles in a new way.

 

[punisher73]

How bout this one... any defence against it? Anyone ever used it on dah streetz?

View attachment 28665

There is, its a counter technique called "checking his oil".

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If I understand what @wab25 wrote, it's not a grab for your weapon so much as a grab for your WRIST when YOU are reaching for your gun. If it is necessary to face someone who has a weapon, it's a good idea to control that weapon, or the hand/arm holding it. The sooner the better, in most cases. Grabbing the wrist before the draw is completed is certainly one way to do this. If I can keep your weapon in it's holster, it's not much of a threat to me. And if you're foolish enough (and able) to pull the trigger, it's more likely that you're going to shoot yourself.

Sure, I get that, there may not be an option. Hope I am never on either side of that again. Having been shot at, I don’t recommend it. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of distance and options based on that. I wouldnt draw down on an unarmed attacker, so it’s a moot point.

 

[frank raud]

How bout this one... any defence against it? Anyone ever used it on dah streetz?

View attachment 28665

Having trained with Wally Jay and having trained in Underwood's Defendo, anyone pointing a finger like that, or poking it at you, is calling for a fingerlock.

 

[Buka]

Having trained with Wally Jay and having trained in Underwood's Defendo, anyone pointing a finger like that, or poking it at you, is calling for a fingerlock.

Wally had more damn finger locks than anyone. His wife told me that when Wally flew, he'd quietly study notes and manipulate his own fingers in different ways to study the lock positions. Other passengers would point out the strange man to flight attendants.

He didn't care.

 

[wab25]

No, I can accept those. I even train those, but they usually happen in a grip that is quite different from an actual handshake and only have a few similarities. I am specifically talking about a few videos I have seen where the instructor literally describes their technique as a defense against someone who is shaking your hand as a social greeting. Something like this

If someone is being a jerk in a situation where handshakes are expected you can usually just verbally say "ow" or "stop" and they will because it is a social setting and not a fight. If you are grappling and the hand is grabbed it is almost never palm to palm like an actual handshake. Its usually grabbing their fingers or using your fingers to grab their palm from the top or bottom but usually not straight in. This just seems super impractical and even overkill. If you are actually shaking someone's hand and it is too tight just tell them. If you don't know the person and they randomly came up to you for a handshake and you actually gave them your hand then shame on you! Even kids know you don't get close to strangers and you especially don't shake their hands.

First off.... at least in this video, the smaller person is shown making the lock work on the larger person. Too often, we have the larger guy, working with the smaller female, to teach self defense... and all we see is the bigger guy making his stuff work on the smaller female... So I give them a +1 for that.

Now, that is not one of the "hand shake" techniques that I have studied.... However, there is more going on there, than just "please shake my hand, so I can apply the move that I learned." He demonstrates getting into the proper structure, so that he can apply power. He adjusts his body, so that the handshake is taking place where he is powerful. He is showing how he takes the slack out of the arm, how he uses fingers to get wrist, to get elbow to get shoulder to get spine. It is a real lock that he is using, though its from a different entrance than I have seen before.

So, there are plenty of things to get from this set up. Learn how that lock works, learning the basics of moving to regain your structure and balance, ways to take the slack out and connect one lock to the next.... All of these things can and should be trained outside of this drill as well. (but that goes for every single drill / kata / form that any of us study)

Now, if I were teaching a self defense class to a bunch of non-martial artist people in a few hours... would I teach this technique? No, I would find something more basic, something that could be made effective in an hour or so... Do I think I will be attacked by someone using their deadly handshake attack and that knowing this particular technique will be the only thing between me and certain death... Nope. Do I think the principles, tactics, and other fine points shown by this technique could be used under the stress of a real attack... Yes I do.... would it look like the video... nope.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is a "Devil's hand shake" clip to share.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Sure, I get that, there may not be an option. Hope I am never on either side of that again. Having been shot at, I don’t recommend it. I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of distance and options based on that.

If you're close enough to try to keep them from drawing, there really isn't any distance to speak of.

I wouldnt draw down on an unarmed attacker, so it’s a moot point.

I might, depending on the circumstances. In part because you do not know that they are unarmed.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Wally had more damn finger locks than anyone. His wife told me that when Wally flew, he'd quietly study notes and manipulate his own fingers in different ways to study the lock positions. Other passengers would point out the strange man to flight attendants.

He didn't care.

That was one of the things I remember best, the finger things. I was just a boy then.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If you're close enough to try to keep them from drawing, there really isn't any distance to speak of.

I might, depending on the circumstances. In part because you do not know that they are unarmed.

Sure, i agree that there are infinite circumstances. Several concerns here, primarily, safety of myself, my loved ones, bystanders, being mistaken as the perpetrator by law enforcement or other CCW holders, legal issues if I make the wrong call based on what I perceive is happening. Brandishing could cause a loss of ccw or firearms rights. I would not draw unless or until I see or hear a weapon. That’s just me, I wont judge how other people react to a given set of circumstances. When I am at home, I may react in a completely different manner than what I would deem appropriate in public. In any case, I see my firearm as a last line of defense, after all other avenues of resolution have been exhausted. Maybe someone would be faster than me drawing, we really don’t know. I never want to find out, and I still don’t recommend anyone betting their life on that working out for them.

 

[drop bear]

Yes, this idea. My understanding of the original idea was that someone wanted to kill a samurai. If the samurai got his sword out, that became significantly harder. So they would ambush him with a surprise attack. The first attack was to grab the arm that would go for the sword, before the samurai knew he was being attacked. This grab was immediately followed by taking his balance, breaking his structure, and taking him down... all while the other attackers joined in.

Brought into modern times, if one were to attack a police officer, one might want to prevent the officers hand from ever getting to the gun. If you were going to attack someone who was carrying a weapon, you might want to prevent them from getting their hand near their weapon. As the officer or person carrying.... if you get surprised and caught off guard, thats where these escapes come in.

You are right, if you suspect that someone has a CCW and you grab their wrist, and stand there statically waiting to see what they do.... its a very ineffective technique. But, if you grab the wrist, break the balance and structure, hit them in the face, throw them on the ground, while not letting them get their weapon... things get easier. But also it becomes a lot to have a beginner practice on their first day. So working on the parts separately can be good. But, you do have to bring the parts back together.

The main failing I see with "shake my hand" or "grab my wrist" techniques, is that we take them so, extremely literally. We forget to make them real attacks. Its okay to train them statically to teach beginners and to study fine details. But that must be paired with resistance type training. At the end of the day.... its not the technique that is important, its the principles and ideas you ingrained in your body together with your experience of adapting those under the pressure of different attacks.

That's easy. You just walk up and shake his hand.

Then when he can't grab his sword.

You jump him.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The recommended defense against this attack is the butt plug maneuver.

Could we see the demo? Even Master Ken might not know 101 ways to replug the butt.